Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Haase was white knighting DK after he ripped off his 163rd employee and they went on a Twitter raid so doubt she’ll be doing much of the sort.

Hmmm. Disappointing.

So this is what I don’t understand, because when he got to Pittsburgh, one of the great things people said about him was how open he was to talking hockey with anyone, including the media.

He's happy to chat about the game and do some of this supposed "teaching" he's so terrific at... provided it's prime Sid/Geno years and they are actively carrying his clueless self to more glory. Now that he has to actually answer some tough question and those guys are too old to bail his no-idea-having ass out it's lots of sour-shoed pissing and moaning and "concepts of plans." He's just another spoiled NHL head coach who mostly fell into success and let it get to his head and ego. The league is teeming with them. That's why they get fired so quick... or at least ONE reason why.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I dunno, I think Sullivan played a big part in those cups. He pushed the right buttons back then and made the right lineup decisions and had the team playing in a way that suited their strengths. Bylsma was the same way in 09.

I know everyone hates Sullivan right now and rightfully so but he was good once upon a time.

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

I think Sullivan, like Bylsma, inherited a hungry core of legends with a big chip on their shoulder, that was eager to get out from the stifling style of the previous coach and like Bylsma, Sullivan was at his best when he got the f*** out of the way. If either brought anything revolutionary to the table, it was purely by coincidence, because anyone who can develop a strategy can develop ways to adapt and evolve to stay relevant. /shrug

I think that's why the cliche is that NHL coaches are hired to be fired. As soon as they get stale, that's that. No new tricks from guys who have been around the NHL coaching fraternity.

 

[Malkinstheman]

It sounded mostly like speculation but Chris Johnston was asked about how long of a leash Sullivan has, on his show. He said Sullivans leash is as long as can be. Hes viewed very favourably by everyone in the organization and if he were ever to leave, it would probably be a mutual decision.

Again, it didnt seem like this was based on any news or sources but just shows how entrenched Sullivan is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It sounded mostly like speculation but Chris Johnston was asked about how long of a leash Sullivan has, on his show. He said Sullivans leash is as long as can be. Hes viewed very favourably by everyone in the organization and if he were ever to leave, it would probably be a mutual decision.

Again, it didnt seem like this was based on any news or sources but just shows how entrenched Sullivan is.

Pretty much exactly as we've all expected for years now. /shrug

Still hoping this team absolutely cratering and falling to a top-5 pick makes Sullivan realize the era's over and his ego forces him to walk because he's "too good" to coach a bottom feeder.

Cuz god damn, I do not want this stupid f*** anywhere near the next crop of prospects this team's built upon.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Interesting thing to look at with a Jarry buyout after this year:

Total money owed: $11.28 million

Cap penalty:

-2025-2026: $1.75 million ($3.63 million in savings)
-2026-2027: $5.05 million ($328k in savings)
-2027-2028: $4.55 million ($828k in savings)
-2028-2029 through 2030-2031: $797k

Honestly it's a pretty mild buyout for 4/6 years, but it's just bad in those 2 years because Jarry has a lot of signing bonuses in the last 2 years of that deal ($5.5 million split between those two years). It's also even more mild if you buy him out after next year:

-2026-2027: $4.70 million ($666k in cap savings)
-2027-2028: $4.21 million ($1.166k in cap savings)
-2028-2029 and 2029-2030: $458k in cap penalties

Also the fact that Jarry has over half of his money owed in the last 2 years as signing bonuses is another WTF with that contract from Dubas.

 

[Gurglesons]

It sounded mostly like speculation but Chris Johnston was asked about how long of a leash Sullivan has, on his show. He said Sullivans leash is as long as can be. Hes viewed very favourably by everyone in the organization and if he were ever to leave, it would probably be a mutual decision.

Again, it didnt seem like this was based on any news or sources but just shows how entrenched Sullivan is.

MFW right now..

 

[BusinessGoose]

I don't know why everyone is still beating the keyboard so hard? The team is clearly not worth that kind of effort, including bla, bla, bla... Sully.

All these elongated posts are not worthy to read about the same issues and such. It's just not.

This team is in a whirlpool of shit flushing...

Just take them for what they are and roll with it. It ain't changing no matter how many hundred worded posts you put up.

This team is dead

But it's the friends we made along the way

Never gonna give you up, baby

 

[cookthebooks]

steelers haven’t been able to defend that in the history of mike tomlin

 

[Jacob]

It sounded mostly like speculation but Chris Johnston was asked about how long of a leash Sullivan has, on his show. He said Sullivans leash is as long as can be. Hes viewed very favourably by everyone in the organization and if he were ever to leave, it would probably be a mutual decision.

Again, it didnt seem like this was based on any news or sources but just shows how entrenched Sullivan is.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I dunno, I think Sullivan played a big part in those cups. He pushed the right buttons back then and made the right lineup decisions and had the team playing in a way that suited their strengths. Bylsma was the same way in 09.

I know everyone hates Sullivan right now and rightfully so but he was good once upon a time.

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

He was a different voice. But it was jr continuing to tweak the roster, that was the big difference. Remember, sully didn't hit the ground running. But I believe JR added to more trades and the team took off.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Someone needs to tell EK that Sully isn't going anywhere, since it looks like he's playing to get him fired. We all know how EK looked when he first arrived to what happened to his offensive game after getting Sully'd, there's a better player in there.

If he wants out his best bet is to play great to increase his value.

 

[Empoleon8771]

View attachment 923109

I saw the Bud Dwyer video when I was in like 10th grade and it still haunts me to this day.

 

[Gurglesons]

3 point night and Granlund is PPG…

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Ownership is not happy with a perceived lack of accountability, overall team toughness...

This was said about the Penguins. Not this year, but it was a problem at one point and yet it's the same right now. Only difference is, that cost someone their job vs another that's not even remotely in hot water.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Someone needs to tell EK that Sully isn't going anywhere, since it looks like he's playing to get him fired. We all know how EK looked when he first arrived to what happened to his offensive game after getting Sully'd, there's a better player in there.

If he wants out his best bet is to play great to increase his value.

No one on that team looks like they're having fun. Karlsson getting singled out is weird, Letang has been worse, there's better pairing options and they keep forcing ones that make Karlsson and Letang look even worse and they don't need the help with a player that's a negative to them and their game. Sid's body language is worse than the year Disco was fired and same for MJ. Except back then there would be a concern, now they're more concerned with making sure Sullivan doesn't get any negative blow back for this.

At this point anyone being sent to wbs to play for Kirk Macdonald is very lucky, he's a coach they're enjoying playing for and he aims for having fun while putting in the work. It's why I like Nelson as well, players that have a coach that doesn't bs about criticism and accountability like Sullivan, will bust their ass for the coach and play better.

You can't watch this team and come away with - well that's a team that worked really hard for their coach. You'd definitely think "wow they look lost and unsure of their game." That's coaching.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I dunno, I think Sullivan played a big part in those cups. He pushed the right buttons back then and made the right lineup decisions and had the team playing in a way that suited their strengths. Bylsma was the same way in 09.

I know everyone hates Sullivan right now and rightfully so but he was good once upon a time.

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

I don't think the league evolved that quickly, is one of my main points here.

But why do you even care?

They destroyed the team as fast as they built it./

There was talk about a threepeat and flush.

Just out of morbid curiosity, mostly.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I dunno, I think Sullivan played a big part in those cups. He pushed the right buttons back then and made the right lineup decisions and had the team playing in a way that suited their strengths. Bylsma was the same way in 09.

I know everyone hates Sullivan right now and rightfully so but he was good once upon a time.

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

I don't think Sullivan played as big of a role as it's made out to be and that it was a far bigger collaboration with Tocchet than it was simply Sullivan being this genius for a season and a half. Because the moment 2017-18 hit, all of those things changed and went away.

You don't suddenly change that much as a coach with your philosophy if it wasn't yours entirely to begin with. To go from what he did in Dec 2015 to June of 2017 and start doing the most next level stupid suit in 2017-18, that's an insanely drastic turn in his entire coaching system and then treatment of young players as well as pouting with the usage of players he didn't want to use, etc. Starting being petty with Cole, talking about Brass and then misusing him, started to constantly make dumb lineup choices etc. All of that started in 2017-18 but everyone wanted to just believe it was a hangover year, that shit didn't get better.

It got worse.

2015-2017 is more of what Sullivan could do with remnants of Bylsma and MJ's system and having Tocchet be a massive buffer and Associate Coach. The things Tocchet preaches, he practices. Sullivan just thinks he does the same but like a really shitty impersonation of it.

I don't think the league evolved that quickly, is one of my main points here.

Just out of morbid curiosity, mostly.

The league didn't evolve that quickly. Sullivan just didn't understand how to learn from what got him the two cups when he was with Tocchet. Tocchet said he was the one to relay the message in a way the players would understand. That part was made clear by players as well and then the Kessel whisperer jokes.

But really that was a huge indicator that Sullivan couldn't really get his message across well or conducively and required someone that could, a stronger personality than him. Tocchet was the one there to tell him yeah that's dumb but the part that might work, let's try it like this instead.

That's not to say Tocchet is this insane coach, but in that partnership he saw what worked and what didn't and knew how to adjust it and then also help the players buy in and get the most out of them. It's funny how Tocchet got so little credit and Sullivan was hailed a God by Pens media.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But why do you even care?

They destroyed the team as fast as they built it./

There was talk about a threepeat and flush.

What I hate the most is the narrative that these gms went and ruined the team for Sullivan and poor old Sullivan was helpless in all of this while a high number of players performed poorly for him and it wasn't his fault.

When in reality his clashes with players, idiotic usage, etc caused them to lose more value on players in trades and having to make trades while adding value to quickly turn the roster over again. Sullivan has done more damage to this team than any of those Gm's that did have some bad moves but seeing how much this ownership and even Mario and Co loved Sullivan and wanted him to have who he needs to win, most of the shit moves are because of him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Fair enough. Malkin gets shit on a ton by Pittsburgh media, often for doing the exact same things Crosby does. I’m glad he’s finishing his career in Pittsburgh; he deserves every bit of loyalty and celebration from the franchise that Sid gets.


So this is what I don’t understand, because when he got to Pittsburgh, one of the great things people said about him was how open he was to talking hockey with anyone, including the media.

I asked the writer about the recent article about how Sullivan said he made adjustments. But was looking for what those were in the article and he stated that he asked Sullivan what they were and he refused to answer.

That isn't some insane violation of a question. A ton of coaches happily talk about changes they've made. It's not something that's a secret. You make adjustments based on your roster to maximize the usage of the players you have. Teams can see it but to emulate it would mean you need similar personnel. So this isn't the NFL or MLB safe guarding a play book.

Sullivan likely had no f***ing adjustments to talk about.

Also his beef with Ian Cole was because he was outspoken and wasn't shy about it with the media. You learn real fast what Sullivan says doesn't mean shit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't think Sullivan played as big of a role as it's made out to be and that it was a far bigger collaboration with Tocchet than it was simply Sullivan being this genius for a season and a half. Because the moment 2017-18 hit, all of those things changed and went away.

You don't suddenly change that much as a coach with your philosophy if it wasn't yours entirely to begin with. To go from what he did in Dec 2015 to June of 2017 and start doing the most next level stupid suit in 2017-18, that's an insanely drastic turn in his entire coaching system and then treatment of young players as well as pouting with the usage of players he didn't want to use, etc. Starting being petty with Cole, talking about Brass and then misusing him, started to constantly make dumb lineup choices etc. All of that started in 2017-18 but everyone wanted to just believe it was a hangover year, that shit didn't get better.

It got worse.

2015-2017 is more of what Sullivan could do with remnants of Bylsma and MJ's system and having Tocchet be a massive buffer and Associate Coach. The things Tocchet preaches, he practices. Sullivan just thinks he does the same but like a really shitty impersonation of it.


The league didn't evolve that quickly. Sullivan just didn't understand how to learn from what got him the two cups when he was with Tocchet. Tocchet said he was the one to relay the message in a way the players would understand. That part was made clear by players as well and then the Kessel whisperer jokes.

But really that was a huge indicator that Sullivan couldn't really get his message across well or conducively and required someone that could, a stronger personality than him. Tocchet was the one there to tell him yeah that's dumb but the part that might work, let's try it like this instead.

That's not to say Tocchet is this insane coach, but in that partnership he saw what worked and what didn't and knew how to adjust it and then also help the players buy in and get the most out of them. It's funny how Tocchet got so little credit and Sullivan was hailed a God by Pens media.

Yeah, my larger point is, that Occam's Razor has it much more likely that the Cups were a product of ALL the coaches and players on staff than the head coach, given the body of work we have at our disposal to analyze.

I think also the focus on head coaches kind of obscures the fact that head coaches rely on their ACs to fashion the game plans for their respective portfolios. People are keen to point out that Sullivan isn't in charge of the PP, for example, but I don't think that supports the argument that we have a good HC with bad assistants. I think, on the other hand, it reinforces the idea that we should be looking at coaching staffs as a unified whole and hiring them based on their roles and responsibilities, the same way we build lines (or should build lines).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

One of the only things aside from the Sid/Geno 1600/500 game that has given me any joy this season was watching Mike Sullivan run away from behind the bench after last game so fast you'd think he had the devil himself after him. I can't wait until someone like Taylor Haase has the gumption to ask him a question that isn't a total softball so we can see him turn all red and start talking about how misunderstood he is, again.

You think a Sully glazer like Taylor is gonna be that writer? She just writes similar drivel to Yohe and Rossi most of the time. I would guess Surmacz would maybe have the guts.

Haase? Lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It sounded mostly like speculation but Chris Johnston was asked about how long of a leash Sullivan has, on his show. He said Sullivans leash is as long as can be. Hes viewed very favourably by everyone in the organization and if he were ever to leave, it would probably be a mutual decision.

Again, it didnt seem like this was based on any news or sources but just shows how entrenched Sullivan is.

Insert raging emoji that is also violently vomiting.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850939661734310067

Sullivan is a f***ing idiot.

Why are we even bothering at this point? He's never going to get fired. Watching this team Coached by this moron and expecting anything different is futile.

He isn't going to magically figure it out. He just isn't. He will have a hot streak and then get back to the same shit and then it'll be blame the GM for all of it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

When you only have red paint in your inventory, guess what color the barn is going to be painted year after year after year?

I saw the Bud Dwyer video when I was in like 10th grade and it still haunts me to this day.

Filter even did a song about it!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850939661734310067

Sullivan is a f***ing idiot.

Why are we even bothering at this point? He's never going to get fired. Watching this team Coached by this moron and expecting anything different is futile.

He isn't going to magically figure it out. He just isn't. He will have a hot streak and then get back to the same shit and then it'll be blame the GM for all of it.

I wonder if said hot streak will come at a time and be long enough to even keep them in the race this year.
Last year when they were 3-6-0, they rattled off 5 straight wins and got back into the fight.
It doesn't feel like that's coming this time. Reirden was at least doing a pretty good job with the defense at even-strength. All Quinn is bringing is an improved power play, and that boost pales in comparison to the damage he's doing to the defense at ES.

The only coach who's a net positive right now is Vellucci. His PK is solid and he's getting a lot out of the bottom-six, Rakell and Malkin. Scoring from the Forwards is totally fine, even if it's not coming from the expected sources.