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Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

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I think you gotta just hope EK rebounds next season. With 2 more years remaining on his contract after this season, he isnt getting traded earlier than the 2026 deadline anyways.

Also with his age and NMC, you're probably not getting much for him anyways. Burns was traded with 3 years left and only got back a third and meh prospect
 
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Yeah Dubas isn't paying to get out of any contracts. They'll even ride it out with Jarry if they have to.
 
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Yeah there's no rush to remove EK from the team

But i don't think he's gonna fit in here after all... Since Sully and whatever system we run isn't gonna change anytime soon

I do think that the value of EK around the league will take a hit. We'll cross that bridge we when get there, as far as how much retention.

There is zero reason to attach any of our players or picks to it, the only players we wouldn't mind losing aren't going to be wanted by anyone. We need all the other prospects ourselves.
 
SEALBound said:
Getting extreme, are there teams out there that would give us value for Karlsson at $5mil (50% retained)?

Honeslty, I think we have the core 4 until their deals expire. Gonna be like Marleau in SJ.

That's okay though, as long as they are a bottom 3 team next year.
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San Jose is retaining 1.5m so the max that can be retained is 50% of the total contract, meaning someone is taking on a minimum of 5.75m in a trade.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Also if the results are no different with Karlsson than without Karlsson, why the hell are they paying him $10 million a year?

Again, I don't even care about the W/L of this team anymore. They're totally toast, they're completely done. I care about what they can get in terms of picks and prospects for these guys. And right now, it's really looking like the Penguins traded a 1st (that they really shouldn't have traded) for a guy that they won't be able to get much value back for and won't win with. Which I don't know how you can call that anything but a massive failure.
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Thus far, it's certainly not had the impact that we hoped it would. While I had potential misgivings about it, I thought Karlsson would be a lot better here. He looked great the last year in SJS and I truly thought it would manifest into more production from the entire team. Each top 6 line having a guy like Letang or Karlsson AND having them for the PP...I thought we were set.

But honestly, that seems to be the issue with nearly every player we trade for since 2017. They all end up being "okay" and find new ways to hit career slumps or lows. So before I put EK in the trash, I would like to have a look at him with a new coach.

As for the price tag, given what we had to get rid of, it is what it is. There are 31 teams that don't win the up every year and several teams that give up their first in pursuit of it. Every single team that doesn't win wished they could take the pick back.
 
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You know... what even IS a "Penguins system player" anymore? Like... Sullivan has had multiple roster turnovers through multiple GMs using a variety of players with a variety of attributes. And many of those players... far from "sucking" have even gone on to play successful roles for other teams.

Like the vast majority (all?) of the coaches here... Sullivan's "ideal roster" to play this truly magnificent and complicated system is the core in it's prime and the "thing he needs to get back to it" is a f***ing time machine. Because that was the full extent of his ideas, plainly.

Fans say stuff like "yeah well Sullivan's system is great he just doesn't have the players to execute it!" not realizing they literally just provided even more evidence as to why he's a failure.
 
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Malkinstheman said:
I think you gotta just hope EK rebounds next season. With 2 more years remaining on his contract after this season, he isnt getting traded earlier than the 2026 deadline anyways.
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The interesting though I have is that do you let Karlsson play to his strengths and be a rover, and just hope some idiot buys into it just like Dubas did? That's what the Sharks are doing with Granlund right now, force feed him minutes and hope teams forget that he's a shitty player when not getting force fed minutes.

Do you try to force a round peg into a square hole because the square hole is what other teams will like, or do you want to just put the round peg in the round hole and hope some other idiot thinks that they can get the round peg in the square hole?

BlindWillyMcHurt said:
You know... what even IS a "Penguins system player" anymore? Like... Sullivan has had multiple roster turnovers through multiple GMs using a variety of players with a variety of attributes. And many of those players... far from "sucking" have even gone on to play successful roles for other teams.

Like the vast majority (all?) of the coaches here... Sullivan's "ideal roster" to play this truly magnificent and complicated system is the core in it's prime and the "thing he needs to get back to it" is a f***ing time machine. Because that was the full extent of his ideas, plainly.

Fans say stuff like "yeah well Sullivan's system is great he just doesn't have the players to execute it!" not realizing they literally just provided even more evidence as to why he's a failure.
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The comments about Karlsson are less about "he's not playing in the Penguins system" and more "he cannot be effective playing in any sort of system". He needs to be playing as Erik Karlsson to be effective, which is incompatible with any sort of system a team would run.
 
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Seeing how badly players coming into Sullivan's system play vs how they tend to have a resurrection when they leave.... How many points have Crosby, Malkin and Letang left on the table playing under Sullivan's "system"?
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
The comments about Karlsson are less about "he's not playing in the Penguins system" and more "he cannot be effective playing in any sort of system". He needs to be playing as Erik Karlsson to be effective, which is incompatible with any sort of system a team would run.
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Oh it's not really a critique for or against I'm just sitting here kinda musing over EK's situation and others. Like I seriously don't even know what a "Sullivan system player" even is nor do I have any confidence even HE knows. Obviously. I mean... look at what his hand-picked rosters have done the last few years.

Duffy13 said:
Seeing how badly players coming into Sullivan's system play vs how they tend to have a resurrection when they leave.... How many points have Crosby, Malkin and Letang left on the table playing under Sullivan's "system"?
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Too depressing to think about. I don't care what anyone says... the coach alone probably forced 5-10 points off of Malkin's totals just last year. And I'm not making excuses... he needed to be better regardless. But I absolutely believe that.
 
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Duffy13 said:
Seeing how badly players coming into Sullivan's system play vs how they tend to have a resurrection when they leave.... How many points have Crosby, Malkin and Letang left on the table playing under Sullivan's "system"?
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Last year alone, 20 each.

Say, Sid is trading his last year. He goes to Colorado and gets two pedestrian linemates but proceeds to put up 120pts...I'm sure if I would cheer or cry.
 
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They're so bad currently, or, should I say SID has been so bad lately he needs GENO to babysit him. :laugh:
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The interesting though I have is that do you let Karlsson play to his strengths and be a rover, and just hope some idiot buys into it just like Dubas did? That's what the Sharks are doing with Granlund right now, force feed him minutes and hope teams forget that he's a shitty player when not getting force fed minutes.

Do you try to force a round peg into a square hole because the square hole is what other teams will like, or do you want to just put the round peg in the round hole and hope some other idiot thinks that they can get the round peg in the square hole?



The comments about Karlsson are less about "he's not playing in the Penguins system" and more "he cannot be effective playing in any sort of system". He needs to be playing as Erik Karlsson to be effective, which is incompatible with any sort of system a team would run.
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Letting EK do this thing would probably be best for his value but with how this team is structured, I doubt that happens. I also dont think Sullivan has the creativity to "unlock" EK or anything like that. That was supposedly supposed to be something Quinn would do and uhm,... yeah
 
SEALBound said:
That's fine though. If they adore him but team is hot garbage on the ice, remove him from the bench and bring him into the FSG FO if he's THAT well liked. It's just getting too hard to look at the product on the ice and not come to the conclusion that coaching is a BIG part of it.
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I like that idea, provided if Mike is willing to stop coaching.
 
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I don't think a player of EK's talent is ever a genuinely bad player to have, just potentially a bad fit. But his defensive deficiencies need to be sheltered for sure. He's not a guy you can just plug into any team/system and have success.

Look at Phil. He was every bit as defensively miserable as EK, maybe more so, and teams have been able to figure out how to get the most out of him throughout what's arguably a HHOF career. /shrug

For sure, in hindsight, I think the EK trade was a mistake because of where this team's at in its contention window, the weaknesses throughout other areas of the lineup that were more pressing, and because of the coach at the helm. I don't think EK is some bane to any NHL roster though.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt said:
They're actually playing like 5D chess here, guys.

Dubas and co. are just getting us to the point where the narrative can be flipped to "well they are so bad that firing the coach is pointless anyway so they might as well keep him!"

*taps head*
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All snark aside, I think the organization's been there for years. :laugh: But more of a "Well, not even THE Mike Sullivan can succeed with 'em, so they're hopeless!"
 
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You know Rust is going to come back mid season when this team is like 8 points out of a playoff spot and then go on a huge heater too that culminates in the Pens just barely missing the playoffs and picking like 15th
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt said:
Well at least we finally know what they mean when he was dubbed "The Ultimate Penguin."

lol... I like Rust fine but it's funny how many arms this team broke slappin' themselves on the back for developing a middle six wing. Finally. Years ago.
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Can't stand the guy anymore, and hope with all my hope this team's smart enough to trade him when his NTC drops in July. :laugh: Dude followed the Kunitz playbook; play real hard and be an asset to whatever line you're on even without the puck, find yourself on Crosby's wing, score a buncha points, forsake everything other than trying to score those empty calorie points.
 
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Duffy13 said:
San Jose is retaining 1.5m so the max that can be retained is 50% of the total contract, meaning someone is taking on a minimum of 5.75m in a trade.
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I don't believe that's true. Two teams at most can retain on a player. Each time the trading team can retain up to 50% of the contract.

For example, if JONES is a $4M cap hit player his original team can trade him to Team 2 at $2M. Team 2 can then trade JONES to Team 3 at $1M. JONES can be traded again but their cap hit will not go below $1M.

Meaning Karlsson would be $5M if the Pens trade him while retaining 50%.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Can't stand the guy anymore, and hope with all my hope this team's smart enough to trade him when his NTC drops in July. :laugh: Dude followed the Kunitz playbook; play real hard and be an asset to whatever line you're on even without the puck, find yourself on Crosby's wing, score a buncha points, forsake everything other than trying to score those empty calorie points.
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Maybe I'm naïve but I truly think this is just Rust being put into these positions by the team over and over and not he and/or Crosby demanding things. Rust seems pretty easy-going. I feel like if he were assigned to L3 for a few games during struggles or coming back from his most recent injury while playing only PP2 from this point forward he would do it without complaint. But the team seriously acts like dude is prime Bure or something a lot of the time and it's bizarre. Didn't they call him core? I remember when they signed him they paraded him around all offseason and acted like they had just convinced a celebrity to attend their kid's birthday party or something.
 
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