Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think a player of EK's talent is ever a genuinely bad player to have, just potentially a bad fit. But his defensive deficiencies need to be sheltered for sure. He's not a guy you can just plug into any team/system and have success.

Look at Phil. He was every bit as defensively miserable as EK, maybe more so, and teams have been able to figure out how to get the most out of him throughout what's arguably a HHOF career. /shrug

For sure, in hindsight, I think the EK trade was a mistake because of where this team's at in its contention window, the weaknesses throughout other areas of the lineup that were more pressing, and because of the coach at the helm. I don't think EK is some bane to any NHL roster though.

I would pretty clearly argue that the only team that actually managed to figure out how to do that is the early Sullivan Penguins. The Leafs sucked with him as their primary forward, then he won on the Penguins, then the Coyotes sucked with him as their primary forward and then he was effectively out of the league.

I do think the Penguins figured out how to use him effectively and limit his issues, but that also wasn't always true and it burned out fairly quickly after 2017.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Can't stand the guy anymore, and hope with all my hope this team's smart enough to trade him when his NTC drops in July. Dude followed the Kunitz playbook; play real hard and be an asset to whatever line you're on even without the puck, find yourself on Crosby's wing, score a buncha points, forsake everything other than trying to score those empty calorie points.

I would like Rust to take a non-bone breaking stinger off the inside of his foot every time he just floats around after a zone entry, please.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I would like Rust to take a non-bone breaking stinger off the inside of his foot every time he just floats around after a zone entry, please.

We need this putz to be healthy so they can trade him!

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't know why everyone is still beating the keyboard so hard? The team is clearly not worth that kind of effort, including bla, bla, bla... Sully.

All these elongated posts are not worthy to read about the same issues and such. It's just not.

This team is in a whirlpool of shit flushing...

Just take them for what they are and roll with it. It ain't changing no matter how many hundred worded posts you put up.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

View attachment 922932

imagine the narratives if you swapped Sid and Malkin.

You don’t have to imagine them, because we’ve already seen them play out multiple times in the past.

 

[HandshakeLine]

We need this putz to be healthy so they can trade him!

I said "non-bone breaking"!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You don’t have to imagine them, because we’ve already seen them play out multiple times in the past.

Oh cool you're a Geno fan like me!

Hey did you know that Kyle Dubas threw that particular franchise legend under the bus last season for SMITH'S performance? Then traded him, anyway? Neat.

You SURE you don't think that guy's likely a doof?

 

[Malkinstheman]

You know Rust is going to come back mid season when this team is like 8 points out of a playoff spot and then go on a huge heater too that culminates in the Pens just barely missing the playoffs and picking like 15th

I don't think they have a run in them like last season honestly. Will take a big shakeup to get them out of this imo

 

[Pancakes]

I would pretty clearly argue that the only team that actually managed to figure out how to do that is the early Sullivan Penguins. The Leafs sucked with him as their primary forward, then he won on the Penguins, then the Coyotes sucked with him as their primary forward and then he was effectively out of the league.

I do think the Penguins figured out how to use him effectively and limit his issues, but that also wasn't always true and it burned out fairly quickly after 2017.

I don't think the Pens figured anything out with Kessel. They simply took a player who is good but not great and brought him into a situation where he didn't have to be the guy.

Kessel did just fine on the Leafs. He just wasn't elite enough to build a team around and get them to a finals.

Oh sure there's a lot of puff pieces out there about how the Pens made Kessel feel welcome and how Sid and Geno took pressure off him by handling the media and blah blah blah but I don't think anything mattered so much to Kessel as simply being able to be a complementary piece instead of a core piece.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Oh cool you're a Geno fan like me!

Hey did you know that Kyle Dubas threw that particular franchise legend under the bus last season for SMITH'S performance? Then traded him, anyway? Neat.

You SURE you don't think that guy's likely a doof?

I’m a fan of every star Penguin player. I don’t know what quote you’re talking about, but I also don’t think one quote makes a GM.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't think they a run in them like last season honestly. Will take a big shakeup to get them out of this imo

You're probably right. I'm not sure I see it coming right now unless Sullivan gets fired at some point. If they just ride it out with him, it might get ugly.

Never know when Sid might decide to go on an unholy tear though, so there's that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel's overall game was actually way better than I expected when he got here.

It then deteriorated over the course of the rest of his time, here.

Stop me if you've heard this one before.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I would like evidence of one amazing coaching decision Sullivan has made since 2019 please.

(I still maintain Sullivan and most of the coaching staff were not really responsible for the B2Bs, the players were.)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I’m a fan of every star Penguin player. I don’t know what quote you’re talking about, but I also don’t think one quote makes a GM.

Well yeah like I said further up... I love both guys so I try to look past the obvious f***ery that goes on.

I don't have the full quote but it was his post failure season-end presser. When asked about Smith he said something like "well Malkin had a pretty bad season." f*** that. That dude was dogging it hard. Why even say something like that in public?

 

[Ugene Magic]

I would like evidence of one amazing coaching decision Sullivan has made since 2019 please.

(I still maintain Sullivan and most of the coaching staff were not really responsible for the B2Bs, the players were.)

But why do you even care?

They destroyed the team as fast as they built it./

There was talk about a threepeat and flush.

 

[Pancakes]

I would like evidence of one amazing coaching decision Sullivan has made since 2019 please.

(I still maintain Sullivan and most of the coaching staff were not really responsible for the B2Bs, the players were.)

I dunno, I think Sullivan played a big part in those cups. He pushed the right buttons back then and made the right lineup decisions and had the team playing in a way that suited their strengths. Bylsma was the same way in 09.

I know everyone hates Sullivan right now and rightfully so but he was good once upon a time.

The issue is like Bylsma he failed to adapt to an evolving league and only seems to know one way to have success. When that way no longer works, he's out of ideas.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Man. Once you put all the top 6 forwards we have on one line it becomes really visible how bad we are up front.

If you put DOC Eller Pool back together that’s a good third line. Geno Sid Rakell has the potential to be a really good first line. No second line, but those other two lines are fine fourth lines.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would like evidence of one amazing coaching decision Sullivan has made since 2019 please.

(I still maintain Sullivan and most of the coaching staff were not really responsible for the B2Bs, the players were.)

Sullivan's literally had one season where the team actually looked "dominant". That's his first season, the 2016 team.

Even the 2017 team often got out played, but rode hot goaltending and timely scoring to that Cup. The actual performance, game to game, was very similar to what we've seen from Sullivan teams since then. It's just we're no longer getting Conn Smythe-level goaltending and our clutch scoring has gone to shit.

 

[Duffy13]

I don't believe that's true. Two teams at most can retain on a player. Each time the trading team can retain up to 50% of the contract.

For example, if JONES is a $4M cap hit player his original team can trade him to Team 2 at $2M. Team 2 can then trade JONES to Team 3 at $1M. JONES can be traded again but their cap hit will not go below $1M.

Meaning Karlsson would be $5M if the Pens trade him while retaining 50%.

Crap, ok... Just looked it up

15% of the salary cap can be retained no more.... Not an issue as it works out to about 10.5m allowed by a team to retain.

Only 2 teams are allowed to retain on an individual contract.

ie a 11.5 million contract lol

Team 1 retains 1.5m = 10m
Team 2 retains 5m = 5m remaining

No other team can retain on this contract.

Sooooooooooooo yup, I was wrong.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

One of the only things aside from the Sid/Geno 1600/500 game that has given me any joy this season was watching Mike Sullivan run away from behind the bench after last game so fast you'd think he had the devil himself after him. I can't wait until someone like Taylor Haase has the gumption to ask him a question that isn't a total softball so we can see him turn all red and start talking about how misunderstood he is, again.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

One of the only things aside from the Sid/Geno 1600/500 game that has given me any joy this season was watching Mike Sullivan run away from behind the bench after last game so fast you'd think he had the devil himself after him. I can't wait until someone like Taylor Haase has the gumption to ask him a question that isn't a total softball so we can see him turn all red and start talking about how misunderstood he is, again.

"Why do you guys always ask these dumb questions trying to get a reaction out of me? We make the decisions we make because we feel like it puts these players in the best position to help this team win games. That's it." Or something to that effect.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Well yeah like I said further up... I love both guys so I try to look past the obvious f***ery that goes on.

I don't have the full quote but it was his post failure season-end presser. When asked about Smith he said something like "well Malkin had a pretty bad season." f*** that. That dude was dogging it hard. Why even say something like that in public?

Fair enough. Malkin gets shit on a ton by Pittsburgh media, often for doing the exact same things Crosby does. I’m glad he’s finishing his career in Pittsburgh; he deserves every bit of loyalty and celebration from the franchise that Sid gets.

"Why do you guys always ask these dumb questions trying to get a reaction out of me? We make the decisions we make because we feel like it puts these players in the best position to help this team win games. That's it." Or something to that effect.

So this is what I don’t understand, because when he got to Pittsburgh, one of the great things people said about him was how open he was to talking hockey with anyone, including the media.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Fair enough. Malkin gets shit on a ton by Pittsburgh media, often for doing the exact same things Crosby does. I’m glad he’s finishing his career in Pittsburgh; he deserves every bit of loyalty and celebration from the franchise that Sid gets.

I mean I get it... easier to scapegoat, right? Dubas doesn't want that finger of blame anywhere near himself or what is evidently his boss-coach.

That isn't even to say Malkin shouldn't have been better and that the middle of his season wasn't anything other than miserable. Not making excuses. But sometimes the double standards, hypocrisy, misdirection and cowardice is too much to not complain about at least a little.

 

[Gurglesons]

The interesting though I have is that do you let Karlsson play to his strengths and be a rover, and just hope some idiot buys into it just like Dubas did? That's what the Sharks are doing with Granlund right now, force feed him minutes and hope teams forget that he's a shitty player when not getting force fed minutes.

Do you try to force a round peg into a square hole because the square hole is what other teams will like, or do you want to just put the round peg in the round hole and hope some other idiot thinks that they can get the round peg in the square hole?



The comments about Karlsson are less about "he's not playing in the Penguins system" and more "he cannot be effective playing in any sort of system". He needs to be playing as Erik Karlsson to be effective, which is incompatible with any sort of system a team would run.

Granlund is

One of the only things aside from the Sid/Geno 1600/500 game that has given me any joy this season was watching Mike Sullivan run away from behind the bench after last game so fast you'd think he had the devil himself after him. I can't wait until someone like Taylor Haase has the gumption to ask him a question that isn't a total softball so we can see him turn all red and start talking about how misunderstood he is, again.

Haase was white knighting DK after he ripped off his 163rd employee and they went on a Twitter raid so doubt she’ll be doing much of the sort.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Also if the results are no different with Karlsson than without Karlsson, why the hell are they paying him $10 million a year?

Again, I don't even care about the W/L of this team anymore. They're totally toast, they're completely done. I care about what they can get in terms of picks and prospects for these guys. And right now, it's really looking like the Penguins traded a 1st (that they really shouldn't have traded) for a guy that they won't be able to get much value back for and won't win with. Which I don't know how you can call that anything but a massive failure.

Jersey sales on EK is one reason, but I can’t find the stats for jerseys he’s sold as a Pen.