Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Ryder71]

Of course he can do both.

But EK is not an instant plug and play guy so it may wait until the off-season.

I'm willing to move ANYTHING that isn't bolted down, just currently don't see EK as very likely at all.

Also Dubas just traded for him, That'd be pretty embarrassing for him to move him only a few short months later.

I dont think yinzera go to games to see EK

Really? What's our attendance figures over the last couple of years relative to THIS season. Once EK was in the fold I believe they sold a ton of tickets. Maybe I'm wrong but...

 

[pistolpete11]

I really don't think it's unrealistic to sell this deadline, retool in the offseason, get younger, and still try to compete with this core next year.

Here's my stab at it. We can bicker about the specifics if you want , but it's just a framework

This deadline

Jake (50%) + Noel 'The Key' Acciari for Foegele, Beau Akey, 2024 1st round pick and 2025 2nd round pick - Changed the proposal from a 3rd to a 2nd since Foegele is a UFA, but I added Acciari, so I think that's a fair trade off. If they can't take on Acciari for cap reasons, they can send us Janmark. Basically equivalent players, but Janmark is a UFA and clears Acciari from the Pens books for next year. - Have a handshake agreement to re-sign Jake, that's important.

Smith to Vegas for our 3rd back

Ned for a pick

Maybe some team is desperate for some veteran leadership, Carter (50%) for a 4th.

This is not a lot of moves, so it's very reasonable, doesn't affect next year's team much, and gets us some picks. Could also trade Eller and probably get a 2nd or 3rd, but I would like him back next year.


Next Year

First, fire Sullivan. Obviously.

1. Re-sign Jake as agreed ($9M)
2. Re-sign Foegele ($3M, just using him as an example since he's being discussed, but I do like the physicality and goal scoring potential)
3. Sign MAF ($1M, should be cheap as he's 40 years old and the reunion angle, no controversy with Yinzer Nation who should be starting at this point and they'll just be happy to see him smiling on the bench, and his stats don't look too bad in comparison to Gus, so it's likely the Wild just suck defensively).
4. Sign all the RFA to ~900k bridge deals. Puusy, Poulin, Bemstrom, POJ, Ty Smith

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
XXX - Malkin - Puusy
DOC - Poulin - Rakell
Bemstrom - Eller - Foegele
Nieto-Poolparty

Petts - Letang
Graves - Karlsson
POJ - Ludvig
Smith

Jarry
MAF

With a $87.7M cap, this team would have $6.8M to fill the XXX. Or you could not sign Foegele and have nearly $10M in cap to address whatever else you want. Or you could look to trade Rakell and have a boatload of cap space.

I think that team potentially has a lot of depth and interchangeability. Puusy falters or you can't find anyone to fill the XXX? You have Rakell and DOC you could bump up. Poulin isn't quite ready, you can bump Eller up. Bemstrom, Nieto, and Poolparty are kind of interchangeable. POJ or Ludvig falter you have Ty Smith who has shown he can play both sides.

And you're giving more opportunity to younger guys while still giving the core a chance. That's my ultimate goal for next year (assuming the coach is taken care of).

If things go south again next year, you can trade Petts, Eller, Rakell, Rust after the season, Karlsson will probably want out, Graves if you can, whoever XXX is, etc. Eventually Jake will probably want out too. So in the end you're still starting the rebuild, just a little bit later, but at least you gave the core 1 more chance with a new coach.

And if it works and they make the playoffs, great.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Pens aren’t trading Karlsson. Friedman threw that musing out there to get more clicks.

Hell, I don't think they'll trade anyone.

But Karlsson is probably one of the few pieces we have that we can move and has value.

 

[Victor Z]

EK helps sell tickets here, he's another generational player, SERIOUSLY doubt he gets moved.

Which is 95% of the reason he was acquired. A defensively weak specialist was never what this team needed the MOST. Seeing as how we have one (1) defenseman who is actually capable of playing defense, I wonder what a competent front office would have focused on here?

Doobie needed to make a big splashy (if not pointless) trade to "mark his territory" and show that he wasn't Sleepy Hextall 2.0. After empty seats became an epidemic at PPG last season, he needed to make a move that would put butts in the seats and show that the Pens were now super-serious about making another Cup run (LOL @ how THAT'S turned out).

Plus it was a great trade because we "gave up literally nothing" to get him, or so say some of the pea-brained experts. Just a bunch of deadwood: a #1 pick? Pfft -- those picks are apparently worthless so hand them out like candy; Granlund would never have fit in here or be used properly so we'll give Doobie that one; Petry was a whipping boy for the haters who don't know shit; Rutta was a dime-a-dozen 3rd pairing type who could be easily replaced.

Only he hasn't been replaced. Third pair D has been a major sore spot all season, and even when 100% healthy we're forced to play with at least 2 AHL-level scrubs at all times (Ruhwedel, POJ, Shea, Ludvig) and Sully defaults to the worst possible configuration, naturally.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I like how this place has gone from "Tristan Jarry sucks, Dubas gave out a team killing contract by re-signing him" to now "Jarry's good and valuable, let's trade him for assets" in like 6 months

This isn't as different as you think

We still hate the contract and don't trust Jarry to not get hurt or collapse, so see the fact he wasn't crap so far as a way out.

 

[Ryder71]

Hell, I don't think they'll trade anyone.

But Karlsson is probably one of the few pieces we have that we can move and has value.

He has an onerous cap hit and a NMC, not to mention he was just traded for, how does that add up?

Focus on that muppet Jake, Nej, Smith, you know realistic trade chips that will give us the desired return.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Um. Erik Karlsson wanted to be on a winner and this team is unlikely to make the playoffs. He just got here and is not tied down in any way. He also knows that he will be more affordable given the double retention from SJS and Pittsburgh.

Dubas' can posture all he wants about Karlsson = core but it isn't remotely believable.

You are responding to the poster who believes everything said by KD in pressers. This presumes all GM's are transparent in their motives

 

[SEALBound]

Fair? I thought that was a great counterpoint by me and all you give me is, ''fair''? All anyone talked about here after getting EK was just how prolific our PP would be.

I deserve better than that. Such as: '' Ryder, you're on your game today my friend, I walked into that one''.

My bad. Here.

Dear Ryder71,

I wanted to take a moment to commend you for your recent comment regarding Erik Karlsson's performance on the Penguins' powerplay this season. Your insightful analysis truly stood out amidst the widespread anticipation surrounding Karlsson's addition to the team.

Your observation about Karlsson's performance diverging from the general expectation is not only astute but also provides valuable insight into the dynamics of the team's powerplay strategy. It's refreshing to see someone critically analyze the situation rather than simply echoing the prevailing sentiment.

Your contribution sparks an important conversation about the complexities of player dynamics and team strategies, reminding us all of the multifaceted nature of the game we love. It's through thoughtful observations like yours that we can gain a deeper understanding of the sport and appreciate its nuances beyond the surface level.

Thank you once again for sharing your perspective. Your comment adds depth and richness to our discussions here on the forum, and I look forward to reading more of your insights in the future.

Warm regards,

SEALBound - Recently Approve HFBoards Sponsor

I really don't think it's unrealistic to sell this deadline, retool in the offseason, get younger, and still try to compete with this core next year.

Here's my stab at it. We can bicker about the specifics if you want , but it's just a framework

This deadline

Jake (50%) + Noel 'The Key' Acciari for Foegele, Beau Akey, 2024 1st round pick and 2025 2nd round pick - Changed the proposal from a 3rd to a 2nd since Foegele is a UFA, but I added Acciari, so I think that's a fair trade off. If they can't take on Acciari for cap reasons, they can send us Janmark. Basically equivalent players, but Janmark is a UFA and clears Acciari from the Pens books for next year. - Have a handshake agreement to re-sign Jake, that's important.

Smith to Vegas for our 3rd back

Ned for a pick

Maybe some team is desperate for some veteran leadership, Carter (50%) for a 4th.

This is not a lot of moves, so it's very reasonable, doesn't affect next year's team much, and gets us some picks. Could also trade Eller and probably get a 2nd or 3rd, but I would like him back next year.


Next Year

First, fire Sullivan. Obviously.

1. Re-sign Jake as agreed ($9M)
2. Re-sign Foegele ($3M, just using him as an example since he's being discussed, but I do like the physicality and goal scoring potential)
3. Sign MAF ($1M, should be cheap as he's 40 years old and the reunion angle, no controversy with Yinzer Nation who should be starting at this point and they'll just be happy to see him smiling on the bench, and his stats don't look too bad in comparison to Gus, so it's likely the Wild just suck defensively).
4. Sign all the RFA to ~900k bridge deals. Puusy, Poulin, Bemstrom, POJ, Ty Smith

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
XXX - Malkin - Puusy
DOC - Poulin - Rakell
Bemstrom - Eller - Foegele
Nieto-Poolparty

Petts - Letang
Graves - Karlsson
POJ - Ludvig
Smith

Jarry
MAF

With a $87.7M cap, this team would have $6.8M to fill the XXX. Or you could not sign Foegele and have nearly $10M in cap to address whatever else you want. Or you could look to trade Rakell and have a boatload of cap space.

I think that team potentially has a lot of depth and interchangeability. Puusy falters or you can't find anyone to fill the XXX? You have Rakell and DOC you could bump up. Poulin isn't quite ready, you can bump Eller up. Bemstrom, Nieto, and Poolparty are kind of interchangeable. POJ or Ludvig falter you have Ty Smith who has shown he can play both sides.

And you're giving more opportunity to younger guys while still giving the core a chance. That's my ultimate goal for next year (assuming the coach is taken care of).

If things go south again next year, you can trade Petts, Eller, Rakell, Rust after the season, Karlsson will probably want out, Graves if you can, whoever XXX is, etc. Eventually Jake will probably want out too. So in the end you're still starting the rebuild, just a little bit later, but at least you gave the core 1 more chance with a new coach.

And if it works and they make the playoffs, great.

I would really have to work through the "what to do with $10mil" part because that roster doesn't give us anything better than what we have no and I would argue is worse due to the lack of Jake. In order to retool, Dubas needs to get more aggressive in obtaining a young piece.

 

[Ryder71]

You are responding to the poster who believes everything said by KD in pressers. This presumes all GM's are transparent in their motives

He's responding to someone who is consistently right in his assessments. What did I tell you prior to the presser Wednesday? And what happened when Sully was brought up? Dubas yet AGAIN went out of his way to praise Sully. As much as you want him to he's not going anywhere, just like I said.

ACCEPT IT!

 

[pistolpete11]

I would really have to work through the "what to do with $10mil" part because that roster doesn't give us anything better than what we have no and I would argue is worse due to the lack of Jake. In order to retool, Dubas needs to get more aggressive in obtaining a young piece.

He is there and I made it a pretty big point of the post to have a handshake agreement to re-sign him after trading him

And a big part of getting better is getting a new coach. Although, I think DOC and Rakell on L3 is an improvement. Foegele and Bemstrom I think are better than Carter and Harkins. Eller at 4C (if Poulin works out) is an upgrade. The defense is largely the same, but I'm beyond thinking personnel is the reason we think our defense is disappointing every year. This goes back to a new coach.

The only area where I think that roster is weaker than it is this year is Ned to MAF....and everyone being another year older, I suppose.

 

[Ryder71]

My bad. Here.

Dear Ryder71,

I wanted to take a moment to commend you for your recent comment regarding Erik Karlsson's performance on the Penguins' powerplay this season. Your insightful analysis truly stood out amidst the widespread anticipation surrounding Karlsson's addition to the team.

Your observation about Karlsson's performance diverging from the general expectation is not only astute but also provides valuable insight into the dynamics of the team's powerplay strategy. It's refreshing to see someone critically analyze the situation rather than simply echoing the prevailing sentiment.

Your contribution sparks an important conversation about the complexities of player dynamics and team strategies, reminding us all of the multifaceted nature of the game we love. It's through thoughtful observations like yours that we can gain a deeper understanding of the sport and appreciate its nuances beyond the surface level.

Thank you once again for sharing your perspective. Your comment adds depth and richness to our discussions here on the forum, and I look forward to reading more of your insights in the future.

Warm regards,

SEALBound - Recently Approve HFBoards Sponsor

You just got yourself a seat at the head table with this post! Well said and entirely accurate!

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He's responding to someone who is consistently right in his assessments. What did I tell you prior to the presser Wednesday? And what happened when Sully was brought up? Dubas yet AGAIN went out of his way to praise Sully. As much as you want him to he's not going anywhere, just like I said.

ACCEPT IT!

Thanks for the tip, but you still never provided evidence of any GM raking his current coach over the coals.
ACCEPT IT!

 

[Ryder71]

Thanks for the tip, but you still never provided evidence of any GM raking his current coach over the coals.
ACCEPT IT!

Nor did I say I would, but thanks for stopping by. Oh and one more thing, when Sully is canned, because I know you're clamoring for it soooo much, let me know... I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a very very long time and so will you. How will you sleep at night?

 

[SEALBound]

He is there and I made it a pretty big point of the post to have a handshake agreement to re-sign him after trading him

Oh man, scanned right past him. I so used to thinking about a post-Jake world now. I'm primarily focusing on the bottom 6 when I look at lineups.

The one move that would be very prudent for Dubas is to look for a new, offensive-minded 3C, which pushes Eller to 4C and Acciari to 4RW. I'm not yet convinced that Poulin is that guy.

You just got yourself a seat at the head table with this post! Well said and entirely accurate!

This table?

 

[Ryder71]

Oh man, scanned right past him. I so used to thinking about a post-Jake world now. I'm primarily focusing on the bottom 6 when I look at lineups.

The one move that would be very prudent for Dubas is to look for a new, offensive-minded 3C, which pushes Eller to 4C and Acciari to 4RW. I'm not yet convinced that Poulin is that guy.

This table?

Not that one no, I have another in mind.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Nor did I say I would, but thanks for stopping by. Oh and one more thing, when Sully is canned, because I know you're clamoring for it soooo much, let me know... I'll wait. And I'll be waiting a very very long time and so will you. How will you sleep at night?

You must be mistaking me for someone else bc I never said he'd be canned.

I said that GM's don't diss their coaches and you can't read jack-all from press conferences, even though media people and fans love to do so.

Still waiting on that evidence though to support your theory.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think that one of the two goalies gets moved. There are teams in need and a shallow market so there is value there. Assuming teams would pony up. Which I think they would.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

On Karlsson to Ottawa, I actually think there is a workable deal there that could be done: Karlsson for Chabot. The Senators are much deeper on LD than RD, they currently have Chychrun on the 3rd pair due to Sanderson and Chabot on LD. The Senators would instead have this top-4:

Sanderson-Karlsson
Chychrun-Zub

From the Penguins side, they get a prime aged, cost controlled top-4 LD that could allow them to trade Pettersson for more futures. You're downgrading from Karlsson to Chabot but you're getting a good bit younger. The big concern I have with Chabot is his injury history, the dude gets hurt a lot.

Do I think that deal is at all realistic? Of course not, but I don't think it takes a lot of thinking to see how Karlsson for Chabot could make sense.

I'm super intrigued by this topic

 

[Ryder71]

You must be mistaking me for someone else bc I never said he'd be canned.

I said that GM's don't diss their coaches and you can't read jack-all from press conferences, even though media people and fans love to do so.

Still waiting on that evidence though to support your theory.

My theory is that Sully aint goin anywhere, and guess what he isn't. So each day he's here reinforces my sentiment.

One other thing, and for the third time now, so please try and pay attention...k? There's a decided difference between throwing someone under the bus, and out and out reveling in their abilities. Why can't you discern between the two?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Part of me hates the shit out of the idea of giving up on a player like EK already.

But an increasingly louder part of me understands that Mike Sullivan is the forever-coach and in this system you aren't profiting much off of dynamic defensemen to help drive the offense. So what's the point?

This is why I've moved to the "I kind of wish Sid/Geno want to chase more Cups" boat. Because honestly, with how Sullivan wants players to play and how f***ing boring his teams are, at this point I'd be in favor of trading all our "skill" and just give the moron behind the bench his perfect team of defensive plugs.

 

[Come on]

If we can move enough contracts, there are alot of supporting players becoming free agents. Enough to put together a nice team even.

 

[pistolpete11]

Oh man, scanned right past him. I so used to thinking about a post-Jake world now. I'm primarily focusing on the bottom 6 when I look at lineups.

All good

The one move that would be very prudent for Dubas is to look for a new, offensive-minded 3C, which pushes Eller to 4C and Acciari to 4RW. I'm not yet convinced that Poulin is that guy.

I'm not convinced it's Poulin either, but it's part of the mission to get younger (and obviously he's cheap). I think surrounding him with an established player like Rakell and another guy that seems to be taking steps in DOC, you're not asking him to do too much, either.

Eller at 4C would be ideal, but having him at 3C again with DOC and Rakell doesn't look too bad to me either. Especially with a new coach.

FYI, in my hypothetical, I included Acciari in the Jake trade just to unload his contract. I don't hate the player, but I don't think he's worth paying a premium for.

 

[Ryder71]

We're gonna get a Haul if Kyle handles this the way I think he will.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The one move that would be very prudent for Dubas is to look for a new, offensive-minded 3C, which pushes Eller to 4C and Acciari to 4RW. I'm not yet convinced that Poulin is that guy.

The problem is that's not what Sullivan wants his 3C to be. There's zero point in even trying to acquire an offensive minded 3C because Sullivan will just use him like a defensive minded 3C.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Looking lines on Daily Face Off I'd Say that Jake is a top 6 upgrade for:
COL
DAL
EDM
FLA
LA
NYI
PHI
StL
TB
TOR
VAN
VGK
WSH

If the Pens retain 50% he should get a haul.