Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Malkinstheman]

The league is really, really lacking in even average starting goalies. If Jarry is available you might actually be able to get some decent value for him from teams like Carolina or New Jersey.

That would require two things which I highly doubt the team will do. 1. Admit defeat and start selling off everyone. 2. Trade within the division.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bahl kinda sucks tho. Don’t trade him then if all you get is another shitty return from a divisional team.

Not trading Pettersson if the team is retooling would be absolutely nonsensical. What's the point of keeping him if your team isn't competing?

Pettersson's one of the most logical guys to trade, he's a UFA after next year that will command a huge raise and he's more a supporting piece for a great team. I don't see Bahl, Hameenaho and a 2nd for him at all as a "shitty return". Hameenaho is a super intriguing guy to me because he's doing really well in the Liiga as a 19 year old (25 points in 38 games) and gives hardcore Guentzel vibes from his scouting report:

There's no doubt about Hämeenaho's best quality being his intelligence. He's an extremely smart off-puck player at both ends of the rink. He finds quiet ice and pockets of space in the offensive zone, popping in and out of the slot, anticipating possible passing lanes and rebound opportunities.

Combine that with a strong WJC performance (4 goals and 6 points in 7 games) and he's a guy that is really appealing to target.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I agree with you here, but if the team stinks, what's the point of keeping him?

Yeah, if this team's gonna deal Jake (and they 100% should, no hesitation), they should absolutely just start dismantling and trying to get whatever they can for whoever is on the roster.

In terms of value/tradability, I think it's Jake>>>>>Petts>>>Jarry>>>anyone else.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kaplan's latest buzz: Goalie market, what Penguins and Capitals will do among hot topics

We're two weeks away from the NHL trade deadline, which means trades can happen at any moment. Here's what we're hearing around the league.

www.espn.com

Interest in Jake Guentzel around the league hasn't waned at all, despite him being on injured reserve through the March 8 deadline. It still seems likely Guentzel is on the move. I've heard the asking price on Guentzel is multiple first-round picks (or a first-round pick and equivalent in top prospects or roster players). One rival executive said "the Guentzel asking price is ridiculous."

The Penguins have made it clear that all non-core players on their roster could be available -- and not just looking for future assets, but hockey trades too (though those are typically easier over the summer). Veteran Reilly Smith hasn't had the smoothest transition in Pittsburgh, but there's increasing league-wide interest in the veteran forward, who won a Stanley Cup last season with the Golden Knights. Two of Smith's former teams, Vegas and Florida, could be fits -- as could the Hurricanes.

I was thinking Smith at 50% for a 2nd was reasonable, you could probably get that without retention if there is enough interest in him.

Getting 2 1sts in value for Guentzel and at least a 2nd for Smith would really help their prospect pool.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't see how a first (that is likely kind of mediocre) and a good prospect is "ridiculous."

I have my qualms with Jake and question the fit on some teams but he's a 40 goal guy and a proven playoff performer. And we have GMs out there giving up their whole-ass draft for a knuckle-dragger. So cry more "rival executive."

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Rival GM definitely wants Jake *bad* but can't swing the deal for one reason or another. For sure.

Jake's got a statline and resume GMs will foam at the mouth over. I'm sure there are a handful of Giroux-or-better deals out there. It's just a matter of Dubas wanting to make the trade, and getting lucky in landing the best prospects/picks available.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also I got curious over my own statement and looked up Tanner Jeannot's year thus far.

Woof!

...uh I mean... not that I have much room to talk re: bottom six players, I guess.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Also I got curious over my own statement and looked up Tanner Jeannot's year thus far.

Woof!

...uh I mean... not that I have much room to talk re: bottom six players, I guess.

pixies is gonna yell at your for besmirching the good name Jeannot and saying he wasn't worth an entire draft class via trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You hear that from rival executives every year, how the asking price for any good player is "ridiculous" and then they get traded for a price pretty similar to it.

I bet that came from somewhere like Vancouver where the Penguins wanted Lekkerimaki and a 2024 1st, which is an aggressive ask by the Penguins but not something "ridiculous".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You hear that from rival executives every year, how the asking price for any good player is "ridiculous" and then they get traded for a price pretty similar to it.

I bet that came from somewhere like Vancouver where the Penguins wanted Lekkerimaki and a 2024 1st, which is an aggressive ask by the Penguins but not something "ridiculous".

Haha... Vancouver came to my mind, as well.

Although with JR hangin' around there... they should be used to the "ridiculous."

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

My theory is that Sully aint goin anywhere, and guess what he isn't. So each day he's here reinforces my sentiment.

One other thing, and for the third time now, so please try and pay attention...k? There's a decided difference between throwing someone under the bus, and out and out reveling in their abilities. Why can't you discern between the two?

And I never disagreed that he wasn't/was going anywhere.
Where I stopped in my tracks was your bloviation that bc KD talked glowingly about Sully meant he was staying. That's when I piped in and essentially said "that's not always the case" and "show me the last time a GM ripped is coach"

But please tell me more about argument discernment...

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Also I got curious over my own statement and looked up Tanner Jeannot's year thus far.

Woof!

...uh I mean... not that I have much room to talk re: bottom six players, I guess.

Twelve goals in the last two years.

 

[SEALBound]

Of course the price on Guentzel is high but team's end up paying it every year. Every major Top 6 UFA that's put on the markets gets traded. And of course the initial ask is high.

I think something like 2025 1st, 2024 3rd, Morozov is what Vegas would offer but then you have to look at teams like Edmonton and Colorado and possibly Dallas, who could also use upgrades, to outbid them not only for their own upgrade sake but also to prevent another WC team from getting him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Morozov, eh?

Considering where we are on the timeline that seems hilariously appropriate.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Morozov, eh?

Considering where we are on the timeline that seems hilariously appropriate.

A Morozov and an aged franchise legend mentoring a buncha youth on a bottom feeder, eh? I'm ready.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I would probably do the Pettersson deal. I love Bahl. Hameenaho looked great at the WJC.

I still think Dubas needs to start with asking Rust to waive. I could see NYR being all over him, RW being literally their biggest bugaboo. I could see Fitzgerald wanting Rust big time. I could see Rutherford and Allvin wanting Rust big time. I could see Guerin wanting him. Buffalo, too. Ottawa, too. His reputation is spotless.

Ask him to waive and see where it leads.

If Rust waives, you'd have to presume Det is very interested

 

[Ryder71]

And I never disagreed that he wasn't/was going anywhere.
Where I stopped in my tracks was your bloviation that bc KD talked glowingly about Sully meant he was staying. That's when I piped in and essentially said "that's not always the case" and "show me the last time a GM ripped is coach"

But please tell me more about argument discernment...

I see where you're coming from regarding GM group speak. I just thing each GM handles things differently. Some are straight shooters, others not so much. You have to judge each GM, executive differently. Not necessarily lump all under one tent. That's where discernment comes in.

 

[McGroarty2]

If EDM is going after Guentzel, I would go for:

Guentzel (@50%) and Phillips for Foegele (cap purposes), 2024 1st and Hollaway.

 

[Ryder71]

If EDM is going after Guentzel, I would go for:

Guentzel (@50%) and Phillips for Foegele (cap purposes), 2024 1st and Hollaway.

But stipulate a '24th 1st OR '25 1st OUR CHOICE. If they win the cup (don't laugh) we'd pick 32hd, so I'd want the flexibility of moving that pick to '25

 

[Malkinstheman]

But stipulate a '24th 1st OR '25 1st OUR CHOICE. If they win the cup (don't laugh) we'd pick 32hd, so I'd want the flexibility of moving that pick to '25

Considering how weak their prospect pool is, you might be able to get Holland to include two 1sts. 2024 1st + 2025 1st (Conditional on WCF berth, otherwise a 2nd) + whichever prospect. Its make it to break it time for Holland and the Oilers

 

[Ryder71]

Considering how weak their prospect pool is, you might be able to get Holland to include two 1sts. 2024 1st + 2025 1st (Conditional on WCF berth, otherwise a 2nd) + whichever prospect. Its make it to break it time for Holland and the Oilers

If you think about it, two 1sts isn't an egregious ask when you consider both are likely late 1sts 24-32. I'm just thinking that we might prefer instead of two 1sts, one of those assets be a highly thought of prospect that's closer to making the jump. I believe the '25 draft is looking better, I'd want the option there most likely. And maybe another piece as you mentioned.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've been saying for a while but I definitely think you gotta try and fleece a team who has been bad recently and is desperate to expedite the next step(s) to contending by landing Jake. Getting guys recently drafted by teams who have top-10 caliber prospects is key imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

If EDM is going after Guentzel, I would go for:

Guentzel (@50%) and Phillips for Foegele (cap purposes), 2024 1st and Hollaway.

That deal sucks ass. That's like a "if that's all we can get" trade you agree to at noon of trade deadline deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

pixies is gonna yell at your for besmirching the good name Jeannot and saying he wasn't worth an entire draft class via trade.

Low value, unique skill set. Worth it in imo.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

Looking lines on Daily Face Off I'd Say that Jake is a top 6 upgrade for:
COL
DAL
EDM
FLA
LA
NYI
PHI
StL
TB
TOR
VAN
VGK
WSH

If the Pens retain 50% he should get a haul.

Not being a smartass but can anyone offer one single reason why they wouldn't max retain? I guess the only way they wouldn't is if they needed to fit a player coming back?