Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

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You got this thing where you think that every move managers and coaches make must be correct, because they are professionals.
This couldn't be further from the truth. They make stupid moves all the time. Sullivan has proved it the last 2 years. Hextall proved it thoroughly as well.
Zohorna and Nylander are not worse players than Harkins for example. White is not a better player than Pitlick.
Ludvig and Shea are not better players than Ty Smith this year.
I saw enough of Ty Smith to believe he's not anything to write home about. Harkins fits a 4th line role better than Zoho and Nylander. Not sure you're comparing apples to apples there. To me this team is so flawed such moves won't amount to much. Their PP is sinking them.
 
I saw enough of Ty Smith to believe he's not anything to write home about. Harkins fits a 4th line role better than Zoho and Nylander. Not sure you're comparing apples to apples there. To me this team is so flawed such moves won't amount to much. Their PP is sinking them.
I think I agree with this in theory. But after seeing the same thing over and over and they keep losing, it should prompt change.
 
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I'm not seeing this.
I'm also not seeing that he hates Sully either.

Name the last GM though that said anything public that they dislike their coach. Just doesn't happen, so you're attempting to prove that something isn't happening/evidence of absence, which is a logical fallacy
yeah, even when they fire the guy, they say only good things about him
 
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It's about time to start thinking about next year. This team is DOA. So I'd be looking to sell on anyone who we don't think is part of the solution. Granted that means these players are either unmovable, or will return peanuts.

Graves - thanks but no thanks. Not a fit. Probably unmovable even with retention
Smith - Rental Smith might be attractive, but the extra year makes this one tough without retention.
Rakell - I like the guy, but the results arent there. Cut bait if you can, but again long contract probably makes this a non starter.
Ned - Love the player, but if there's an asset that can come the other way, cash in while you can.
 
It's about time to start thinking about next year. This team is DOA. So I'd be looking to sell on anyone who we don't think is part of the solution. Granted that means these players are either unmovable, or will return peanuts.

Graves - thanks but no thanks. Not a fit. Probably unmovable even with retention
Smith - Rental Smith might be attractive, but the extra year makes this one tough without retention.
Rakell - I like the guy, but the results arent there. Cut bait if you can, but again long contract probably makes this a non starter.
Ned - Love the player, but if there's an asset that can come the other way, cash in while you can.
Tough to know who's going to be a fit with the coach next year.

And if it's the same coach, who gives a shit?
 
It's about time to start thinking about next year. This team is DOA. So I'd be looking to sell on anyone who we don't think is part of the solution. Granted that means these players are either unmovable, or will return peanuts.

Graves - thanks but no thanks. Not a fit. Probably unmovable even with retention
Smith - Rental Smith might be attractive, but the extra year makes this one tough without retention.
Rakell - I like the guy, but the results arent there. Cut bait if you can, but again long contract probably makes this a non starter.
Ned - Love the player, but if there's an asset that can come the other way, cash in while you can.
I think they will give Graves this year and likely next. It's a long contract. Our best bet is to have him pick up his play and become a good partner for Letang or EK.

Smith, yeah send him out in a swap or for a pick.

Rakell will stay. He adds enough away from the puck that I don't think they dump him.

I'd love to have Neds back next year but yeah, I think we have to capitalize if we can. He could be packaged with Smith to a lot of contenders.
 
I saw enough of Ty Smith to believe he's not anything to write home about. Harkins fits a 4th line role better than Zoho and Nylander. Not sure you're comparing apples to apples there. To me this team is so flawed such moves won't amount to much. Their PP is sinking them.
Smith has 31 points in 46 games down in Wilkes. He has rebounded. Besides, he was pretty good up here last year for us, so idk what you mean. He might be able to help the PP?
That "role" argument with shit players is a very tired one. We need depth scoring, and Z is totally fine defensively anyway. We're 26th in GF/G. Harkins has 0 goals this year. It's not and never will be okay to score like this, even in a defensive role. You don't get a free pass to completely be a non-contributor in one aspect of the game.

Our needs right now are not defensive. That's a mindset that we had with past Penguins teams, where the offense was a given. That's no longer the case.
 
Hell even ZAR could at least pop in the occasional goal.

This team is icing like 2-3 players that are total black holes night after night. And it's not like they are bringing anything special to compensate for the fact that their hands are made entirely out of bricks.
 
Smith has 31 points in 46 games down in Wilkes. He has rebounded. Besides, he was pretty good up here last year for us, so idk what you mean. He might be able to help the PP?
That "role" argument with shit players is a very tired one. We need depth scoring, and Z is totally fine defensively anyway. We're 26th in GF/G. Harkins has 0 goals this year. It's not and never will be okay to score like this, even in a defensive role. You don't get a free pass to completely be a non-contributor in one aspect of the game.

Our needs right now are not defensive. That's a mindset that we had with past Penguins teams, where the offense was a given. That's no longer the case.
I don't think the offensive prowess of these WB guys moves the needle all that much if at all. Besides, I'm rooting for change, so them losing (IMO anyhow) is a means to an end. Having good numbers in the Ahl doesn't necessarily translate up here. In any case I just think we're mired in mediocrity. Any help down there in the big picture doesn't really change our trajectory TBH.

If you want change then you root for them to trade guys like Jake and Petts for big return. That'll jump start the rebuild/retool in a big way if we hit on the draft picks and prospects we'd likely garner in such a move. Particularly with retention.
 
I think they will give Graves this year and likely next. It's a long contract. Our best bet is to have him pick up his play and become a good partner for Letang or EK.

Smith, yeah send him out in a swap or for a pick.

Rakell will stay. He adds enough away from the puck that I don't think they dump him.

I'd love to have Neds back next year but yeah, I think we have to capitalize if we can. He could be packaged with Smith to a lot of contenders.
Graves is the one signing that I didn't like from the start. IMO, he was never anything more than a high end #5D. I just don't think those are the types you give long-term contracts to. Those are the guys you find internally or hope you find a $2 million, 2-year bargain guy who blossoms in that role.

It might have been one thing if Graves had a physical/nasty side that our blueline lacks. But despite his size, he plays a pretty "average size" game for the most part.
 
You're not gonna get anything for Graves and RR. RR has a limited NTC Anyhow. Besides does that really change anything? I'm not a fan of selling low on guys regardless. You want meaningful change you trade guys who have significant value. Jake and Petts, At least one needs to go.
 
You're not gonna get anything for Graves and RR. RR has a limited NTC Anyhow. Besides does that really change anything? I'm not a fan of selling low on guys regardless. You want meaningful change you trade guys who have significant value. Jake and Petts, At least one needs to go.
With regards to Graves, I'm not expecting much. What I want is cap space and being rid of that long term. Even if amounts to nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick in return, just get rid of that contract and that's already a plus because you can use that extra space to re-tool in the summer.
 
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New update from Pierre LeBrun on Insider Trading, saying that the Pens will be in sell mode to some degree on March 8.

"Kyle Dubas, right now, is listening on everyone on his roster other than his core guys."

About the only time where you really need him to specify who the core guys are which I assume is Sid, Geno, Letang. Makes speculation on the likes of Jarry, Pettersson, EK, and Guentzel interesting.
 
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About the only time where you really need him to specify who the core guys are which I assume is Sid, Geno, Letang. Makes speculation on the likes of Jarry, Pettersson, EK, and Guentzel interesting.
I'm pretty sure that nationally the core is only perceived to be Sid, Geno and Letang.
 
Well I hope Jake isn’t a “core “ guy lol
I’m not speaking of what they should do. They 100% should trade Jake. He’s not going to age well and he’s going to cost to much to keep and he’s the only chance you have to bolt on some pieces around the core 3 and even have a Hail Mary chance at a run. But I think it depends on what the market is for Jake with the injury. If the rest of the GM’s are low balling Dubas on him then I think they just hold onto him, attempt to resign him, and if he doesn’t then they make the deal public and make Jake the bad guy. But I also think if any team comes in with say 1st + good prospect + etc he is good as gone.
 
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In a Jake trade, I think you have to get a blue chip prospect, even if it means you don't get a 1st back.

A few names I can think of:
Stankoven, Bourque, Yurov, Lekkerimaki, Ohgren, Nikishin, Pellikka, Perreault, Lambert
 
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We can say this a million times.

Dubas can not fire MS without approval of FSG.

Hopefully FSG is looking at there new shiny toy and let Dubas let him go If they don't make playoffs. (I don't see them making it)

Trade some players, fire coach, and go for it next year. That's my take right now.
I think at this point the only way Sullivan is fired is if someone starts writing about it in the Pens media and since not of them want to be barred by the Penguins, they won’t. Shirey alluding to it and mentioning it is about the only “Penguins Media” attached to any news rag that’s said anything, albeit in a tweet.

This team & coaching staff suck absolute shit LOL
Just remember, Reirden is going to be the scapegoat for Sullivan, the same way Recchi and Gonchar were before him.

Players, General Managers, Assistant Coaches, they’re all the problem, not the head coach.
 
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