Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

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I have no expectations with Dubas right now.

He has been even worse than I imagined in my worst dreams.

How you don't make a single change after the multiple embarrassing losses we've suffered this year is so strange.
I do have expectations. Trading Jake at the deadline is chief among them. Trying to offload Smith is another. But he needs to move Jake because this season is a waste and you can't lose him for nothing. That'd be poor asset management to say the least. Heck I'd move Petts for a haul. Although that seems less likely.
 
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Both are absolutely embarrassing. :laugh:
Don't get me wrong. I took a "I told you so" tour with Bylsma when he got exposed during his Buffalo coaching days. But that consisted of maybe 1 or 2 posts after his initial season in Buffalo saying, "See? This is why us Pens fans said he wasn't good and got carried by Sid and Geno". I didn't spend the entire season breaking down every single Buffalo loss to crow about every action of his.

So I can understand if Toronto fans feel a certain way about Dubas and point to some of his mistakes with the Pens once in a while to say, "See? Told you he was overrated". But that fanbase literally seems to dedicate every day finding something to pile on Dubas about.
 
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Honestly I'm not hating on dubas that hard, yet.

1. He wasn't the one who signed rust to a nmc, resigned Carter and gave him a nmc, gave away McCann and blueger, or extended Sullivan.

2. The only moves that I don't like when you take Sullivan out of the equation are, in retrospect, graves as it turns out he needs a defense first partner to be effective ala Marino instead of being that guy for a letang or karlsson, and waiver pick ups in Harkins and the new midget who Sullivan just can't resist putting into the line up.

In terms of basic roster construction, discounting injuries, there was a legit top six that Sullivan has completely wasted by not giving Malkin linemates he can produce with. I remember the days of Francis getting jagr and Stevens or nedved, while Mario was playing with total scrubs because he could and it balanced out top six production yet here we are with Malkin playing with a third liner in O',Conner and smith who obviously wants to be traded back west. Hell I'd have had sid with rackell and puusy with Geno getting Jake and rust while smith sat for being a sulking little bitch as far back as December.

Eller has, for most of the season been a fantastic bottom six center, but his line either should have been a total shut down third line with accari at right wing with a young fast and hungry fourth line, or a better third line should have been constricted with both eller and accari on the fourth.

Accari is not a center, putting at center completely neuters him since he plays "his" game along the boards and in the corners.

With Jake out and on ltir, there are no cap based reasons for Carter to play. He should be sat and the young guys who could potentially be in the NHL should be given a chance to play some games. Not white, not hinostroza, not Harkins, not the midget. Gruden/poulin (when healthy)/puusy, maybe even give Nylander one last shot at a spot in this org.

Yeah dubas picked up a crap ton of AHL defenders for depth, but it was Sullivan that ruined poj's development by playing shea and ruh over him for weeks at a time when both were literally losing the team games early in the season. Sullivan also doesn't seem able or willing to work with young defenders and let smith rot in the ahl as well.

It and wasnt dubas who broke up pettersson and karlsson when they surprisingly had some of the best advanced metrics in the league for the first two months of the season to help keep the illusion that letang was the number 1 defender. defenseman.

It's not dubas who can't run the powerplay.

And it's not dubas spouting off cliche ass responses after each game instead of making actual line up or strategy changes.

Well-stated. There is a ton of misguided anger towards Dubas. He gave Sully the exact roster he wanted. And the Graves signing was applauded by most on this board.

If it comes out that Dubas had/has the ability to fire Reirden and didn't do so I'll be upset at that. But I get a sense that the coaches for this season were deemed untouchable by FSG.
 
The stars are aging out, hell Sid is nowhere near the points per game he was in his prime. Geno fell off the side of the mountain. But he had over a point per game last season. Age is the main culprit. Being worn down over the years with so many exhausting playoff runs takes a toll. Both mentally and physically. Look at the Hawks. Credit to the Pens for hanging in much longer than the Hawks after their cup runs but it's been over for a couple years now. Hell before that even. Not sure a different coach changes this trajectory. And when we do rebuild-retool Sully is probably as good as anyone to oversee it. At least initially. He's owed a ton of money and the next few years will be bad regardless. Just gotta make those draft picks count and get good value in free agency.
 
The stars are aging out, hell Sid is nowhere near the points per game he was in his prime. Geno fell off the side of the mountain. But he had over a point per game last season. Age is the main culprit. Being worn down over the years with so many exhausting playoff runs takes a toll. Both mentally and physically. Look at the Hawks. Credit to the Pens for hanging in much longer than the Hawks after their cup runs but it's been over for a couple years now. Hell before that even. Not sure a different coach changes this trajectory. And when we do rebuild-retool Sully is probably as good as anyone to oversee it. At least initially. He's owed a ton of money and the next few years will be bad regardless. Just gotta make those draft picks count and get good value in free agency.
God no on Sullivan…I want him nowhere near the rebuild lol…just look at his usage of younger players
 
The stars are aging out, hell Sid is nowhere near the points per game he was in his prime. Geno fell off the side of the mountain. But he had over a point per game last season. Age is the main culprit. Being worn down over the years with so many exhausting playoff runs takes a toll. Both mentally and physically. Look at the Hawks. Credit to the Pens for hanging in much longer than the Hawks after their cup runs but it's been over for a couple years now. Hell before that even. Not sure a different coach changes this trajectory. And when we do rebuild-retool Sully is probably as good as anyone to oversee it. At least initially. He's owed a ton of money and the next few years will be bad regardless. Just gotta make those draft picks count and get good value in free agency.
This 10,000 % They have played an Assload of Hockey & an Assload of Playoff hockey Which is a lot more physically demanding & Emotionally & Mentally demanding. & As I have said ad Nauseum Father Time is undefeated !
 
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God no on Sullivan…I want him nowhere near the rebuild lol…just look at his usage of younger players
Well, in a couple years that's likely the predominant age of the team so he'll have to play them. (as the stars retire or move on). We're not gonna be contenders for a while and even the Yagers of the world are likely two years away. I just can't find fault with Sully on the PP. And that's the reason we aren't competitive. THAT's on the players. To be clear I'm not a big Sully fan. Didn't like losing Cole and Reaves when we were playing well. I faulted him then so it's not as if I'm a fan of his. And generally we're good 5 on 5 ES and PK. Coaching has a lot to do with that. The PP is where the stars get to add lib, and they're failing miserably. We just can't finish plain and simple. Hard to blame the coach for that.
 
Well, in a couple years that's likely the predominant age of those players as the stars retire or move on. We're not gonna be contenders for a while and even the Yagers of the world are likely two years away. I just can't find fault with Sully on the PP. And that's the reason we aren't competitive. THAT's on the players. To be clear I'm not a big Sully fan. Didn't like losing Cole and Reaves when we were playing well. I faulted him then so it's not as if I'm a fan of his. And generally we're good 5 on 5 ES and PK. Coaching has a lot to do with that. The PP is where the stars get to add lib, and they're failing miserably.
So you don’t fault Sullivan for letting them “ad lib” into a miserable failure lol? I dont see why he gets a pass on that…the PP is failing and he is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic
 
So you don’t fault Sullivan for letting them “ad lib” into a miserable failure lol? I dont see why he gets a pass on that…the PP is failing and he is just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic
So, you think he's telling them to play on the perimeter and essentially play catch with each other only to shoot after six pin point passes in succession?
 
The stars are aging out, hell Sid is nowhere near the points per game he was in his prime. Geno fell off the side of the mountain. But he had over a point per game last season. Age is the main culprit. Being worn down over the years with so many exhausting playoff runs takes a toll. Both mentally and physically. Look at the Hawks. Credit to the Pens for hanging in much longer than the Hawks after their cup runs but it's been over for a couple years now. Hell before that even. Not sure a different coach changes this trajectory. And when we do rebuild-retool Sully is probably as good as anyone to oversee it. At least initially. He's owed a ton of money and the next few years will be bad regardless. Just gotta make those draft picks count and get good value in free agency.

Let's say there is a very old team in the league with former stars aging out. The rest of the roster looks very pedestrian on paper.

What would your expectations be for that team?

a) Good at 5 v 5 play?
b) Terrible PP?
c) Good PK?
d) Defensive lapses?

The only choice that I'd come up with is D. Yes an aging and slow team is likely to give up some major HD Chances Against.

I'd also guess that such a team would be brutal 5 v 5, but absolutely kill it on the PP since they don't have to do as much skating.

So in conclusion, this team makes absolutely zero sense. They do MOST of the things necessary to make the playoffs, but the things they don't do well (the PP) is literally the only reason they aren't solidifying their playoff position.

The person in charge of ensuring the thing they need to improve on has no interest in correcting it.
 
The PP is where he affords his stars more latitude to create and be themselves. Up until this season the PP at worst has been mediocre. Our shooting % is largely in the toilet. The players just can't create as they use to. Age and a stale environment IMO are the biggest culprits. Which is why it's time to make some trades!
 
Let's say there is a very old team in the league with former stars aging out. The rest of the roster looks very pedestrian on paper.

What would your expectations be for that team?

a) Good at 5 v 5 play?
b) Terrible PP?
c) Good PK?
d) Defensive lapses?

The only choice that I'd come up with is D. Yes an aging and slow team is likely to give up some major HD Chances Against.

I'd also guess that such a team would be brutal 5 v 5, but absolutely kill it on the PP since they don't have to do as much skating.

So in conclusion, this team makes absolutely zero sense. They do MOST of the things necessary to make the playoffs, but the things they don't do well (the PP) is literally the only reason they aren't solidifying their playoff position.

The person in charge of ensuring the thing they need to improve on has no interest in correcting it.

Yeah. The team is good at everything it shouldn't be. And sucks at everything that should be able to be influenced by a "top five coach".
 
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isn't that why they drafted yager? any pick that's not in the top 4-5 isn't going to play right away.
What I meant was - trade Jake+Smith+Neds+Acciari and use the picks/prospects in that return to trade for a young 2C. For example, Johs Norris or Shane Pinto from Ottawa if they are looking to shake things up.
 
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The PP is where he affords his stars more latitude to create and be themselves. Up until this season the PP at worst has been mediocre. Our shooting % is largely in the toilet. The players just can't create as they use to. Age and a stale environment IMO are the biggest culprits. Which is why it's time to make some trades!

Do you manage people? I do and I give my direct reports latitude and expect them to perform to a certain standard.

If they don't I start investigating why that is the case. Are they not capable? ARe they overwhelmed with other assignments? Do they need more or less oversight?

Most of the time, people just aren't capable and need MORE STRUCTURE to succeed. Why give a person LESS STRUCTURE if they are failing?
 
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