Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Andy99]

I have no expectations with Dubas right now.

He has been even worse than I imagined in my worst dreams.

How you don't make a single change after the multiple embarrassing losses we've suffered this year is so strange.

You don’t make a change earlier if you don’t believe in this group and you’re not going to push the all-in button…but, then, he sure as shit better trade every one he can for futures in the next two weeks

 

[Gurglesons]

You don’t make a change earlier if you don’t believe in this group and you’re not going to push the all-in button…but, then, he sure as shit better trade every one he can for futures in the next two weeks

Dubas has a worse plan than Hextall.

We somehow got the shittier legacy coach than Dan Bylsma and the shittier final GM to turn things around than Hextall.

Penguins really are the most arrogant franchise in the league.

 

[Josey Wales]

Dubas has a worse plan than Hextall.

We somehow got the shittier legacy coach than Dan Bylsma and the shittier final GM to turn things around than Hextall.

Penguins really are the most arrogant franchise in the league.

You Know Arrogance well

 

[SEALBound]

He kept the 1st round pick that turned into Yager and took Mursashov and Pickering who looks like they could be something. Wild cards like Broz and Plante are floating around too.

He literally got 2 drafts one of which was pillaged by Rutherford. Not sure what else people expected him to do, especially given the same exact script is being followed by Dubas this year.

Who knows about the draft. It's a crap shoot. Yeah, I really hope they all turn out. That would be great for us but it doesn't offer forgiveness for building teams that were terrible. Just like the drafting of Jake, Rust, and Murray don't shake my 100% approval of firing Shero back in the day.

If we want to go more into Hextall, the expansion draft was very bad for him. Quite a few signing were pretty bad which required draft capital to fix:

Kapanen resigning at $3.2mil was abominable then instead of trading him away, they lost him for nothing.
Brock McGinn was terrible and provided very little. Needed to add a 3rd to get rid of him for a broken down Kulikov.
ZAR at $1.75mil was a joke.
Not opting to resign Evan Rodrigues was a big oversight.
Resigning Carter was putrid.
Resigning Bleuger to $2.2mil was ZAR level bad.

At least JR can point to clear and obvious moves and signings that were designed to fill holes on the team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who knows about the draft. It's a crap shoot. Yeah, I really hope they all turn out. That would be great for us but it doesn't offer forgiveness for building teams that were terrible. Just like the drafting of Jake, Rust, and Murray don't shake my 100% approval of firing Shero back in the day.

If we want to go more into Hextall, the expansion draft was very bad for him. Quite a few signing were pretty bad which required draft capital to fix:

Kapanen resigning at $3.2mil was abominable then instead of trading him away, they lost him for nothing.
Brock McGinn was terrible and provided very little. Needed to add a 3rd to get rid of him for a broken down Kulikov.
ZAR at $1.75mil was a joke.
Not opting to resign Evan Rodrigues was a big oversight.
Resigning Carter was putrid.
Resigning Bleuger to $2.2mil was ZAR level bad.

At least JR can point to clear and obvious moves and signings that were designed to fill holes on the team.

If Hextall's teams were terrible, not sure what exactly the team Dubas put together that has multiple players on 3+ year term is.

Hextall's worst team last year would've made the playoffs if it wasn't for all of Kris Letang, Jeff Petry and Marcus Pettersson having significant injuries.

 

[SEALBound]

Dubas didn't make one good UFA signing outside of Ned this summer.

I'm so frightened by what Dubas will do next year. I fully imagine we are going to do something really stupid to "compete" by giving a player like Lindholm 9.5-10 mil over 7 years.



Kulikov was a great move tbh. Getting rid of McGinn for just a 3rd and acquiring a defenseman back with no term given the injuries was good work.

Blueger trade was good too given what he had done that season.

Eller was a decent move as I've been happy with his play.
Jarry was...okay...but way too long for way too much.
DOC for 925k is fine.
Shea, Zohorna, White, Butcher, and Hinostroza were all fine too.

Acciari, Nieto, and Graves...all misses.

If Hextall's teams were terrible, not sure what exactly the team Dubas put together that has multiple players on 3+ year term is.

Hextall's worst team last year would've made the playoffs if it wasn't for all of Kris Letang, Jeff Petry and Marcus Pettersson having significant injuries.

I mean, we can say that about any team though.

This year, they would make if the powerplay just worked or if the goalies didn't give several games away early in the season.

A lot of the team woes right now aren't on Dubas, despite our obvious displeasure with a couple signings.

 

[Gurglesons]

Eller was a decent move as I've been happy with his play.
Jarry was...okay...but way too long for way too much.
DOC for 925k is fine.
Shea, Zohorna, White, Butcher, and Hinostroza were all fine too.

Acciari, Nieto, and Graves...all misses.


I mean, we can say that about any team though.

This year, they would make if the powerplay just worked or if the goalies didn't give several games away early in the season.

A lot of the team woes right now aren't on Dubas, despite our obvious displeasure with a couple signings.

I mean. The Penguins have never been in the playoffs this year.

The Penguins missed the playoffs by one point last year.

It's a very different scenario.

I guess my main point is if Hextall stayed GM and did every move Dubas did this summer, would people not be chanting fire Hextall since December?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I mean. The Penguins have never been in the playoffs this year.

The Penguins missed the playoffs by one point last year.

It's a very different scenario.

I guess my main point is if Hextall stayed GM and did every move Dubas did this summer, would people not be chanting fire Hextall since December?

Nothing guarantees Hextall picking Yager..

Hextall is still responsible for this teams biggest failure as of right now, the coaching staff!

 

[Gurglesons]

Nothing guarantees Hextall picking Yager..

Hextall is still responsible for this teams biggest failure as of right now, the coaching staff!

Yager was pretty much the consensus pick.

If he doesn't pick him maybe we get JT Miller with that pick. Would've been a smart move.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Yager was pretty much the consensus pick.

If he doesn't pick him maybe we get JT Miller with that pick. Would've been a smart move.

How do you know it would have turned out to be a smart move? Just like EK? Sometimes things just don't work out you know

 

[Gurglesons]

How do you know it would have turned out to be a smart move? Just like EK? Sometimes things just don't work out you know

EK has been a smart move.

Miller although overrated is a PP specialist who doesn't give a shit about being polite. Exactly what this team needed.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The pens got rid of all their garbage and only gave up a first for EK. You do that every day of the week. Its just unfortunate that the rest of the roster sucks balls.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

EK has been a smart move.

Miller although overrated is a PP specialist who doesn't give a shit about being polite. Exactly what this team needed.

It's a smart move cause he turned the garbage he picked up in Petry and Granlund +++ for EK. However we also lost a 1st round pick in that process of having to dump players here and there and all that is on Hextall and no one else

 

[Turin]

Being tight against the cap makes it tough. The intent was to compete this year and I think for the most part, Dubas made the moves to make that possible. It's not Dubas's fault that Sullivan wrecks the lineup each night or that the duds we do have are underperforming.

The signings I've been harsh on are Nieto and Acciari but at the time, those two as targets made a lot of sense. They're just underperforming relative to expectations - Acciari more so given his $2mil hit.

I think as long as Crosby is PPG and Malkin is a capable 2C, I think we still have one more season (next year) to "go for it". Not to the extremes but still build a roster that we want to get into the playoffs. Dubas just has to be willing to do the surgery. And that includes up at the TDL.

Trade Guentzel for the best "futures + young player" return you can get. Trade Smith for a different player or a higher pick return. Send out Acciari for whatever you can get. Trade Neds for a pick just to get value. Then in the off-season, see if you can do a Graves or Rakell swap with someone. I would be looking for an offensive 3C as well. I also wouldn't balk at the idea of using draft capital that we get to get a solid 2C. That could shift Malkin to 3C or bump him to a wing.

He could have fired any of the coaches at no cap penalty. But no. This team is absolutely going to miss now and it will be largely because of a asst coach they have no history of success with.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

The pens got rid of all their garbage and only gave up a first for EK. You do that every day of the week. Its just unfortunate that the rest of the roster sucks balls.

Correct, the point is who collected all that garbage...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

There's nothing much to complain about with the EK trade. At least to this point.

But I'm definitely completely done with the idea that this team can charge it's overall offense from the back end. Maybe it works elsewhere. It sure doesn't work, here.

 

[MrBrightside]

EK has been a smart move.

Miller although overrated is a PP specialist who doesn't give a shit about being polite. Exactly what this team needed.

There's basically zero chance they could have added both Miller and Karlsson under the Cap without numerous other moves.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just don't understand simultaneously defending Hextall's work and being pissed at Dubas' work when this team's pretty much exactly the same as it was under Hextall. Terrible bottom-6 with zero potential for goal support, a top-6 that relies entirely on whether or not Sid's firing on all cylinders.

Dubas' first summer was doing whatever Sully wanted, which meant keeping the bottom-6 in a state of dysfunction and swapping one 3rd line winger out for another 3rd line winger and pretending it was good enough for an anemic Geno line. He swapped two bad players/fits in Petry and Granlund out for EK, who Sullivan immediately neutered.

Dubas is signed for 7 years. He's not gonna fix a handful of years of JR and Hextall's handiwork in one summer, and I don't want him to try. Team's f***ing cooked and has been. Trade Jake for the best haul you can get, fire the coaching staff immediately, and shift focus to the longer-term. This is no longer a "now" team. But they'll keep pretending they are until Sid gets sick of the grind of NHL hockey, which I imagine will happen after 2026 because he wants to be eligible for the Olympics.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's basically zero chance they could have added both Miller and Karlsson under the Cap without numerous other moves.

Well we would've acquired Miller at the draft so yeah.

 

[MrBrightside]

I just don't understand simultaneously defending Hextall's work and being pissed at Dubas' work when this team's pretty much exactly the same as it was under Hextall. Terrible bottom-6 with zero potential for goal support, a top-6 that relies entirely on whether or not Sid's firing on all cylinders.

Dubas' first summer was doing whatever Sully wanted, which meant keeping the bottom-6 in a state of dysfunction and swapping one 3rd line winger out for another 3rd line winger and pretending it was good enough for an anemic Geno line. He swapped two bad players/fits in Petry and Granlund out for EK, who Sullivan immediately neutered.

Dubas is signed for 7 years. He's not gonna fix a handful of years of JR and Hextall's handiwork in one summer, and I don't want him to try. Team's f***ing cooked and has been. Trade Jake for the best haul you can get, fire the coaching staff immediately, and shift focus to the longer-term. This is no longer a "now" team. But they'll keep pretending they are until Sid gets sick of the grind of NHL hockey, which I imagine will happen after 2026 because he wants to be eligible for the Olympics.

To be fair, Dubas inherited a much bigger mess from Hextall that Hextall assumed. I'm not defending Dubas' moves or lack thereof thus far but they weren't really starting with the same hand.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean. The Penguins have never been in the playoffs this year.

The Penguins missed the playoffs by one point last year.

It's a very different scenario.

I guess my main point is if Hextall stayed GM and did every move Dubas did this summer, would people not be chanting fire Hextall since December?

We've been in WC slots here and there throughout this season but I get what you're saying. Last year, the PP wasn't atrocious though and the personnel is largely the same.

The last line is irrelevant because this is Dubas's first year and it would have been Hextall's third. So yeah, I believe they would be chanting to fire Hextall due to it being three years of failure, not half a season. There's going to come a point too when the roster just isn't as capable so it will become less and less the fault of the GM. Can we really be blaming Craig Patrick in 2003 for sucking so hard? It's why Shero and Bylsma drew so much ire from me - they had Sid, Geno, MAF, and Letang in their prime and shit the bed hard. Thankfully we got JR when we did and he capitalized on a few major trades.

EK has been a smart move.

Miller although overrated is a PP specialist who doesn't give a shit about being polite. Exactly what this team needed.

Yeah, EK was still a good move to make regardless of his overall impact. Petry is HS territory right now and Granlund was largely garbage here. I wouldn't have having Rutta here right now though in lieu of Carter but it is what it is.

 

[Gurglesons]

We've been in WC slots here and there throughout this season but I get what you're saying. Last year, the PP wasn't atrocious though and the personnel is largely the same.

The last line is irrelevant because this is Dubas's first year and it would have been Hextall's third. So yeah, I believe they would be chanting to fire Hextall due to it being three years of failure, not half a season. There's going to come a point too when the roster just isn't as capable so it will become less and less the fault of the GM. Can we really be blaming Craig Patrick in 2003 for sucking so hard? It's why Shero and Bylsma drew so much ire from me - they had Sid, Geno, MAF, and Letang in their prime and shit the bed hard. Thankfully we got JR when we did and he capitalized on a few major trades.

Have we?

I don't think we were outside of for one or two day.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

To be fair, Dubas inherited a much bigger mess from Hextall that Hextall assumed. I'm not defending Dubas' moves or lack thereof thus far but they weren't really starting with the same hand.

I dunno. I think both Hextall and Dubas inherited pretty shitty situations roster-wise. JR spent his last few years here just throwing shit at the wall and hoping he'd regain that Midas touch he seemed to have in the like 18 months before the first of the back to backs. Whole lotta assets spent on pretty mediocre players, some of which made no sense whatsoever.

To be clear, I'm not stoked with Dubas. I was calling his off-season pretty underwhelming during the summer. If EK didn't fall into his lap for essentially free (all he really had to do was find a taker for Petry's lame ass), it'd have been pretty garbage imo. Eller has been better than expected, but ideally, he's your team's 4C.

 

[SEALBound]

Have we?

I don't think we were outside of for one or two day.

We've be in the WC1 and WC2 slots a couple of times but, yeah only for mere days. Largely due to our "games in hand".

He could have fired any of the coaches at no cap penalty. But no. This team is absolutely going to miss now and it will be largely because of a asst coach they have no history of success with.

I don't see how the assistant coaching staff isn't fired at the end of the season at the very, VERY least. Sullivan should be gone 100% but if they are hell bent on keeping him, they need to get new assistants here.

Reirden should be gone yesterday. His presence is absolutely baffling to me.

 

[The Old Master]

Trade Guentzel for the best "futures + young player" return you can get. Trade Smith for a different player or a higher pick return. Send out Acciari for whatever you can get. Trade Neds for a pick just to get value. Then in the off-season, see if you can do a Graves or Rakell swap with someone. I would be looking for an offensive 3C as well. I also wouldn't balk at the idea of using draft capital that we get to get a solid 2C. That could shift Malkin to 3C or bump him to a wing.

isn't that why they drafted yager? any pick that's not in the top 4-5 isn't going to play right away.