Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[SEALBound]

The main appeal of that deal is the Wings 1st that will be sitting around 20th overall, but both Buium and Berggen are appealing B level prospects I think.

My goal return for a Guentzel trade is what Horvat brought back last year: a short term cap dump, a B+ prospect and a mid 1st. Maatta, Buium, Berggen and a 1st seems pretty aligned with that in value.

Berggen is PPG in AHL and had 5pt in 9gp in the NHL while being 23. 28pt in 67gp last year. Took him a couple of years to come over from Sweden but I imagine he'd slot in pretty quick on our third line.

But yeah, I think it aligns pretty well. I would be okay with us giving up our 2024 1st to SJ if we get Detroits 1st to replace it.

If we think we will be <15ov, I'd asked them for the 2025 1st. Worse things than having 2 1sts in a draft but still.

Seconded on thinking Yager won't be NHL ready come next season.

And Hooby scares me. What the heck is going on with him?

Get traded from Florida to Calgary and going from Barkov to Kadri on a far worse team...

 

[Jacob]

It’d be fun to add a couple guys teams can’t give away- like Huberdeau- and have them return to form here while the other team eats a bunch of their salary.

It was always extra satisfying that Toronto was paying part of Kessel’s salary.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Anyone else remember "BuT mAh GaMez iN HaNd!"

Good times.

Someone forgot to remind those folks that you actually have to win those games in hand for them to matter.

 

[The Old Master]

Stealing @Empoleon8771 's post from the Guentzel main board thread: Maatta/Chiarot, Berggen, Buium, 1st for Jake seems like the kind of return that would intrigue Dub

Or, more realistically if we are in the 10-15 range, I take Tij Iginla.

That all said, I wouldn't shake a stick for a moment at taking Chiarot back and trying to flip him for a 2nd to a team wanting a RD upgrade. At that point, we could easily retain.

if we are in the 10-15 range, we give it away. and keep our first for next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Penguins get a 1st in the 15-20 range for Guentzel this year, I'd just give up their 1st this year. Their 1st will likely fall around 14 anyway, since they're not good enough to make the playoffs but not bad enough to truly bottom out. If they can get a 1st in that general area for Guentzel, just give up the 1st this year.

 

[Pancakes]

If the Penguins get a 1st in the 15-20 range for Guentzel this year, I'd just give up their 1st this year. Their 1st will likely fall around 14 anyway, since they're not good enough to make the playoffs but not bad enough to truly bottom out. If they can get a 1st in that general area for Guentzel, just give up the 1st this year.

I don't think they get to choose unless it's a lottery pick, no?

Like if the pick ends up being 11th I think SJ gets it with no strings attached. If they end up picking say 11th but then win the lottery then they get a chance to choose. Or if they're just in the top 10 without winning the lottery.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah the first is only top ten protected. It's why I'm hoping they ARE mediocre enough this year to dish it off now as opposed to next year when they're REALLY gonna suck.

 

[SEALBound]

if we are in the 10-15 range, we give it away. and keep our first for next year.

I was referring to the Detroit 1st we'd be receiving in that trade discussed in the post.

 

[molon labe]

It’d be fun to add a couple guys teams can’t give away- like Huberdeau- and have them return to form here while the other team eats a bunch of their salary.

It was always extra satisfying that Toronto was paying part of Kessel’s salary.

Or to just send some garbage back.

Rust/Rakell/Smith/Graves should not be here next season.

I'd like to completely gut the bottom 6 as well but we've got bigger fish to fry. 1 scoring line, absolute decaying (way beyond stale) coaching staff....just falling to ruin while the front office quite literally does nothing. Haven't tuned into the last 3-4 games not sure it's worth it going forward. Same bullshit we've been watching for several seasons now that obviously will not change because reasons.

I don't care what Graves fancy numbers say. That guy is a horrendous NHLer. Can't do basic things defenders should do. Ruh can pass 10x better than Graves who's afraid to make an outlet pass more then 15 ft from him - and Ruh never passes. Dude just cranks shots. Hate this group lol. If I had to pick between Graves/Ruh/POJ I might pick wearing a Flyers jersey.

But hey, trust the system. 49 games in. Told you all that the 50 game mark is when it'll all come together. Just you wait. We will get to our game and play the right way and...yeah.

 

[66-30-33]

It’d be fun to add a couple guys teams can’t give away- like Huberdeau- and have them return to form here while the other team eats a bunch of their salary.

It was always extra satisfying that Toronto was paying part of Kessel’s salary.

Why do we want him and that awful contract??

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lets say VGK is open to wanting Reilly Smith back and Reilly Smith wants to go back (I don’t blame anyone on this roster wanting the f*** off this team), cap wise that’s a tough move. You’d need to eat some salary (with the term, that wouldn’t be a bad thing really since he has another year left) or get a 2nd team to eat some salary for an asset.

The issue I would see for retention - Retaining on Smith would leave 1 more salary retention slot until one of those contracts are up (Petry has some retained).

Vegas could take Smith back and not have issues with the cap with the LTIR they have.

Shea Theodore is on LTIR and Robin “Snake” Lehner Is essentially done and on LTIR and both total 10.5m in LTIR - Last year with Stone on long term, they were able to add a fair amount like Quick, Blue, etc. I’d maybe expand that deal and send them Nedeljkovic since Vegas is going to load up some depth where they can, if they can, for another deep run in a much stronger Western Conference.

Something like this maybe?

Reilly Smith + Ruhwedel (Jokes aside, they need RHD Depth) to VGK

Pens get VGK’s 2nd round pick + Kolesar and a cap dump if need be.

It’d be fun to add a couple guys teams can’t give away- like Huberdeau- and have them return to form here while the other team eats a bunch of their salary.

It was always extra satisfying that Toronto was paying part of Kessel’s salary.

Under Mike Sullivan?




What’s more likely to happen is they’ll be impossible to move after Sullivan gets a hold of them. That Kessel and Toronto situation was unique, I wish the Pens were in a similar situation but I don’t see many players wanting to jump to the Pens anytime soon. The league media can talk up Sullivan like he’s some legend but the fact that this team isn’t a destination anymore I think even the players can see the usage and issues and are like yeah nah fam. Unless they’re traded here without a choice, lol, like the poor lad Reilly Smith.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Huberdeau probably could rebound with Geno, game wise I think he has a lot of smarts that would ease the pressure on Malkin to have a winger that can also think the game at a high level and has some silky mitts to go along with it. But we’d have to assume Sullivan keeps him with Geno and doesn’t do his usual placeholder bullshit to Malkin. Also that contract is U-G-L-Y….

 

[Gurglesons]

Huberdeau needs speed. I’d be willing to take him on if we can’t re-sign Jake.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Lets say VGK is open to wanting Reilly Smith back and Reilly Smith wants to go back (I don’t blame anyone on this roster wanting the f*** off this team), cap wise that’s a tough move. You’d need to eat some salary (with the term, that wouldn’t be a bad thing really since he has another year left) or get a 2nd team to eat some salary for an asset.

The issue I would see for retention - Retaining on Smith would leave 1 more salary retention slot until one of those contracts are up (Petry has some retained).

Vegas could take Smith back and not have issues with the cap with the LTIR they have.

Shea Theodore is on LTIR and Robin “Snake” Lehner Is essentially done and on LTIR and both total 10.5m in LTIR - Last year with Stone on long term, they were able to add a fair amount like Quick, Blue, etc. I’d maybe expand that deal and send them Nedeljkovic since Vegas is going to load up some depth where they can, if they can, for another deep run in a much stronger Western Conference.

Something like this maybe?

Reilly Smith + Ruhwedel (Jokes aside, they need RHD Depth) to VGK

Pens get VGK’s 2nd round pick + Kolesar and a cap dump if need be.

Just an FYI, Pens can't retain on a Smith trade to Vegas since it's been less than a year since they acquired him from Vegas.

So, any trade would require whatever cap hit back to balance it out and make it work for Vegas.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just an FYI, Pens can't retain on a Smith trade to Vegas since it's been less than a year since they acquired him from Vegas.

So, any trade would require whatever cap hit back to balance it out and make it work for Vegas.

I think the only way they can then is if they trade them to an intermediary team that can retain and then compensate that team with a pick/prospect to do it. That’s something that has been done and should be fine. Also did I miss this rule altogether? Pens didn’t sign Smith to that contract but traded for him, so retaining on a player that they traded for with 1 more year left and isn’t a 35yr old rule issue, didn’t know this was a thing until just now.

Huberdeau needs speed. I’d be willing to take him on if we can’t re-sign Jake.

Would be an interesting look then wouldn’t it?

If Jake doesn’t re-sign as he should be pricing himself above the 10.5m cap hit that Huberdeau is. it’d be weird to then trade for a player 1m less and a lot less production (making him easier to trade for I guess). I mean I figure Jake is aiming for William Nylander‘s contract anyway as a basis of comparison and production, Jake’s camp has a great case to ask for that much. But then it’s like if you let Jake walk because he wanted 11.5m/yr and get a player that is a 10.5m/yr cap hit (1m less)…that should be a field day for The media.

@Jesse would agree (you still mad mate? I said I’m sorry for lumping you in with a bunch of tossers, internet bro-hug?)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also poor @Zirakzigil - in that scenario the bloke gets to see Huberdeau get punted from his Flames right to the Penguins and can’t run away from him. I mean I bet if they did do that, Huberdeau would be made RW on Sid’s line and if they moved Smith, Sully would probably do Rakell-Malkin-Rust.

This is what we’re destined for by this coach.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Flames arent trading Hube and he wouldnt be waiving to come to the Pens

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think the only way they can then is if they trade them to an intermediary team that can retain and then compensate that team with a pick/prospect to do it. That’s something that has been done and should be fine. Also did I miss this rule altogether? Pens didn’t sign Smith to that contract but traded for him, so retaining on a player that they traded for with 1 more year left and isn’t a 35yr old rule issue, didn’t know this was a thing until just now.

Pens can retain on a Smith trade to anyone other than Vegas. They cannot retain on a trade to Vegas because Vegas was the one who signed Smith to the deal. It could be viewed as Vegas circumventing the cap by laundering his salary through another team for half a year. If it's more than a year from the trade, then no problem.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pens can retain on a Smith trade to anyone other than Vegas. They cannot retain on a trade to Vegas because Vegas was the one who signed Smith to the deal. It could be viewed as Vegas circumventing the cap by laundering his salary through another team for half a year. If it's more than a year from the trade, then no problem.

Oh right, that rule. I completely missed that, duh. Yeah in that case they’d need to retain to send to another team who then can trade him to VGK. I was remembering the Hagelin deal where JR traded Hagelin to take a misused toy away from Sullivan and retained salary, then wanted to get Hagelin back and couldn’t - I thought that rule was kind of dumb. A team should be able to trade for a player they retained on as it’d make the cap hit whole again, also it’s back to the same damn team, but the other one to circumvent, yeah definitely forgot about that one.

Flames arent trading Hube and he wouldnt be waiving to come to the Pens

Yeah, Huberdeau is struggling with his game, he’s not deranged To waive to play for Sully.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

If Dubas does end up trading Jake, he needs to do what Nashville did last season.

They traded away Ekholm, Granlund, Neiderreiter, Johansen, Jeannot, and a 6th, and got back Barrie, Schaefer, Foote, 1st in 2023, 2nd in 2023, 3rd in 2023, 4th in 2023, 5th in 2024, 2nd in 2024, 2nd in 2024, 4th in 2024, and another 1st in 2025.

Preds cleared a ton of cap, fired their coach, added a lot of picks and that's how you do a quick retool and somehow still end up fighting for 8th the next season, staying pretty competitive (more than the pens).

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Huberdeau needs speed. I’d be willing to take him on if we can’t re-sign Jake.

I like Huberdeau, I really do, but that contract scares the shit out of me in the long run. 10.5 million signed another 7 years until he is 38!! Seems like a disaster waiting to happen in 3-4 years and I doubt we would be able to get out of that one!!

 

[Andy99]

https://thehockeynews.com/news/nhl-trade-block-penguins-should-move-jake-guentzel-if-teams-meet-the-high-price

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I like Huberdeau, I really do, but that contract scares the shit out of me in the long run. 10.5 million signed another 7 years until he is 38!! Seems like a disaster waiting to happen in 3-4 years and I doubt we would be able to get out of that one!!

I mean in like 2-3 years the Pens will likely be the graveyard of terrible contracts. And in 2-3 years the Pens should be acquiring these contracts with a bunch of draft picks attached to them.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean in like 2-3 years the Pens will likely be the graveyard of terrible contracts. And in 2-3 years the Pens should be acquiring these contracts with a bunch of draft picks attached to them.

Maybe 1 or 2. I don't see us going the Arizona route. The truth of the matter is, the last 21 years of Penguins hockey were dropped in our lap because we were extraordinarily lucky. Yes, we were bad but we were extremely lucky that were bad at a time when generational talents were available.

You get 3 1st OV picks. Sometimes that would get you MAF, Ovechkin, Crosby. Sometimes that gets you Hall, RNH, Yakupov. It's when some teams in the NHL can't seem to get out of the purgatory.

There's not a chance FSG let's this team dwell in the gutter Arizona style for more than a 2-3 seasons. After that, they are going to start demanding some competitiveness. You just have to hope that in that window, we are bad enough to get the high picks, lucky enough to get a 1 or 2OV pick, and lucky enough to have that pick be a franchise talent. Going back 20+ years, it's hard to find a team that wins the cup without a 1 or 2OV franchise-level player. St Louis in 2019 being the rare exception.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Maybe 1 or 2. I don't see us going the Arizona route. The truth of the matter is, the last 21 years of Penguins hockey were dropped in our lap because we were extraordinarily lucky. Yes, we were bad but we were extremely lucky that were bad at a time when generational talents were available.

You get 3 1st OV picks. Sometimes that would get you MAF, Ovechkin, Crosby. Sometimes that gets you Hall, RNH, Yakupov. It's when some teams in the NHL can't seem to get out of the purgatory.

There's not a chance FSG let's this team dwell in the gutter Arizona style for more than a 2-3 seasons. After that, they are going to start demanding some competitiveness. You just have to hope that in that window, we are bad enough to get the high picks, lucky enough to get a 1 or 2OV pick, and lucky enough to have that pick be a franchise talent. Going back 20+ years, it's hard to find a team that wins the cup without a 1 or 2OV franchise-level player. St Louis in 2019 being the rare exception.

I can't speak much about FSG, but it seems like they would understand that after your team's window is shut, you need to suck before you get back to competitiveness in the NHL.

Are you saying they'll demand a quick rebuild?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

I can't speak much about FSG, but it seems like they would understand that after your team's window is shut, you need to suck before you get back to competitiveness in the NHL.

Are you saying they'll demand a quick rebuild?

I haven’t really had much of a problem with FSG aside from extending Sullivan but one thing that concerns me about them is that they’re involved in so many different leagues and they may think they can likely apply how things work in other leagues to the NHL. Which isn’t the case. Gotta go through some pain before you can be competitive again once windows officially shut for good.