Turin
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2018
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lol if Sullivan outlasts our best young player from the B2B generation.
Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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- Jun 13, 2010
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For reference:
Feb 2022
Giroux (50% retained), German Rubtsov (2016, 22ov, overseas player at the time with little promise), Connor Bunnaman (2016, 4th rd, NHL/AHL tweener), 5th
for
Owen Tippett (2017, 10ov, 1.5 seasons with Florida, roughly a 30pt player), conditional 2024 1st (top 10 protected), 2023 3rd (#95)
We'd be looking at something like:
Guentzel (50% retained), Filip Hallander, Radim Zohorna, 5th
for
Broberg, conditional 2025 1st, 2024 3rd
Using Edmonton as a base. Or Lekkeimaki, conditional 1st, 3rd using Vancouver. Now that said, Jake is way, WAY outperforming Giroux and it was generally understood that Giroux was a pure rental. I expect Jake to get a better return, especially if the team is looking to re-sign him.
The Toffoli Returns:
Feb 2022
Toffoli (2.5 years at 4.25, no retention)
for
Tyler Pitlick (4th liner), Emil Heineman (2nd round 2020 pick who was overseas), conditional 2022 1st (top 10 protected), 2023 5th, 2024 4th
Jun 2023
Toffoli
for
Yegor Sharangovich, 2023 3rd
That could be something like: Mattias Janmark, Raphael Lavoie, conditional 2024 1st, 2025 5th, 2026 4th with Edmonton or Mihheyev+3rd with Vancouver.
I imagine what Dubas is saying is that he wants a young blue-chip forward (Tippett), a 1st, and a 3rd. Even though I don't think Vancouver is a trading partner anymore, Lekkiemaki, 1st, 3rd is about what we'd be looking at. Similar trades:
Edmonton: Broberg, conditional 1st, 3rd
Dallas: Bourque, conditional 1st, 3rd
Vegas: Brisson, conditional 1st, 3rd
Boston: Lysell, conditional 1st, 3rd
NY Rangers: Kakko, conditional 1st, 3rd
Winnipeg: Lambert, conditional 1st, 3rd or Perfetti, 3rd
LA: Grunstrom/Turcotte/Kaliyev, conditional 1st, 3rd
I imagine if Dubas doesn't get the strong, NHL ready forward in the trade, he might go out and look for one. Something like:
Jake@$4mil to Edmonton for Broberg, conditional 1st, 3rd
Broberg, Smith to Toronto for Bertuzzi, 1st, Nick Robertson
Or:
Jake, Smith for Bertuzzi, Robertson, 2 1sts, 3rd
This allows to do a couple things: 1. "Test drive" Bertuzzi to see if he is someone who could work well with Sid as a Jake replacement. 2. Gives us a young bottom 6 forward upgrade. 3. 2 1sts to replace the one we lose from Karlsson. Granted, 2 1sts will be high in the 20s but with our other picks, it might be something we can use to upgrade ourselves. For example, in 2025 if we end up at 15, maybe you pay two firsts to get into the top 10.
Feb 2022
Giroux (50% retained), German Rubtsov (2016, 22ov, overseas player at the time with little promise), Connor Bunnaman (2016, 4th rd, NHL/AHL tweener), 5th
for
Owen Tippett (2017, 10ov, 1.5 seasons with Florida, roughly a 30pt player), conditional 2024 1st (top 10 protected), 2023 3rd (#95)
We'd be looking at something like:
Guentzel (50% retained), Filip Hallander, Radim Zohorna, 5th
for
Broberg, conditional 2025 1st, 2024 3rd
Using Edmonton as a base. Or Lekkeimaki, conditional 1st, 3rd using Vancouver. Now that said, Jake is way, WAY outperforming Giroux and it was generally understood that Giroux was a pure rental. I expect Jake to get a better return, especially if the team is looking to re-sign him.
The Toffoli Returns:
Feb 2022
Toffoli (2.5 years at 4.25, no retention)
for
Tyler Pitlick (4th liner), Emil Heineman (2nd round 2020 pick who was overseas), conditional 2022 1st (top 10 protected), 2023 5th, 2024 4th
Jun 2023
Toffoli
for
Yegor Sharangovich, 2023 3rd
That could be something like: Mattias Janmark, Raphael Lavoie, conditional 2024 1st, 2025 5th, 2026 4th with Edmonton or Mihheyev+3rd with Vancouver.
I imagine what Dubas is saying is that he wants a young blue-chip forward (Tippett), a 1st, and a 3rd. Even though I don't think Vancouver is a trading partner anymore, Lekkiemaki, 1st, 3rd is about what we'd be looking at. Similar trades:
Edmonton: Broberg, conditional 1st, 3rd
Dallas: Bourque, conditional 1st, 3rd
Vegas: Brisson, conditional 1st, 3rd
Boston: Lysell, conditional 1st, 3rd
NY Rangers: Kakko, conditional 1st, 3rd
Winnipeg: Lambert, conditional 1st, 3rd or Perfetti, 3rd
LA: Grunstrom/Turcotte/Kaliyev, conditional 1st, 3rd
I imagine if Dubas doesn't get the strong, NHL ready forward in the trade, he might go out and look for one. Something like:
Jake@$4mil to Edmonton for Broberg, conditional 1st, 3rd
Broberg, Smith to Toronto for Bertuzzi, 1st, Nick Robertson
Or:
Jake, Smith for Bertuzzi, Robertson, 2 1sts, 3rd
This allows to do a couple things: 1. "Test drive" Bertuzzi to see if he is someone who could work well with Sid as a Jake replacement. 2. Gives us a young bottom 6 forward upgrade. 3. 2 1sts to replace the one we lose from Karlsson. Granted, 2 1sts will be high in the 20s but with our other picks, it might be something we can use to upgrade ourselves. For example, in 2025 if we end up at 15, maybe you pay two firsts to get into the top 10.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Dallas is another nice fit as well for Jake, and they have 2 solid prospects I'd gladly welcome. Bourque or Stankoven!!
- Jun 13, 2010
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Dadonov, Bourque, 1st for Jake, prospect or pick seems like a decent deal for both sides.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Getting either of those players would be ridiculous.
I think Dubas like the last 2 GM's are thinking this team is better than it is. You can't have the last 5 years of going nowhere and think things will magically turn around. Can Pens play better, yes. But now is the time to address the costs, age, fit and coaching. Most will be after the season but Pens simply don't have enough in the system to make the transition. Contractually next off season is where the moves have to be made. Starting whatever decent player Dubas can get back in the Jake deal.
Then Rust hopefully for a good pick or prospect., Karlsson who will bring back a nice package, The elephant in the room is Geno and can play his final year in Florida. Now looking at not making the playoffs this year, Pens have to be in the top 10 to keep the pick. If that happens, hope that Pens get that lottery luck to move up. Poulin, Yager, is a start. But long way to go even if Dubas does a great job. No Sid to bail them out but with prudent drafting and returns, Pens can ice a good team in a couple years.
Then Rust hopefully for a good pick or prospect., Karlsson who will bring back a nice package, The elephant in the room is Geno and can play his final year in Florida. Now looking at not making the playoffs this year, Pens have to be in the top 10 to keep the pick. If that happens, hope that Pens get that lottery luck to move up. Poulin, Yager, is a start. But long way to go even if Dubas does a great job. No Sid to bail them out but with prudent drafting and returns, Pens can ice a good team in a couple years.
Broberg is not a NHL player and isn’t the greatest of prospects honestly…EDM is not a good trading partner and Dubas should steer clear of them,unless we’re getting Drai back or something lol
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
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I don't even particularly like Bertuzzi, but I'd do that deal in heartbeat.
They could even try to re-sign Bertuzzi ($5M, Smith's current cap hit) and Guentzel ($9M, his current cap hit + Carter's cap hit)
Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Bertuzzi - Malkin - Rust
DOC - Poulin - Poolparty
Robertson - Eller - Acciari
Puusy/Nieto
Maybe swap Rakell/Rust for a different fit, if possible. Trade Acciari if you need a little more cap space.
Randy Butternubs
FDJT
- Jun 13, 2010
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He's maybe not the blue chipper he once was but I imagine he still becomes an NHL player.
If that's the basis, I might also ask for Tullio or Petrov. Some later round guy who's doing well.
- Jun 13, 2010
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I've said in the past that you could likely go a little higher with Jake or a new wing in FA if you can get Poulin, DOC, Puustinen, and Yager here to provide cheap, young talent. DOC and Puljujarvi here next year on cheap deals. Yager would be a ELC. Puustinen hasn't done much to demand more.
I've suggested in the past - Rakell+Graves for Huberdeau. Just as a lottery ticket trade. And I've suggested looking into Kakko.
Bertuzzi-Crosby-Kakko
Huberdeau-Malkin-Rust
DOC-Poulin-Robertson
Nieto-Eller-Acciari
Puljujarvi/Puustinen/Yager
That is a complete shake up of this team with a lot of mix and match potential. I think Bertuzzi and Kakko will still become useful players with the right guy, and I think Huberdeau is 100% primed to come ROARING back and have a disastrous run in Calgary. If someone takes the leap of faith with him, I think they will be very happy.
Yeah, I think we need someone better back, not just more quantity of prospects, because I’m not sure Broberg is better than Ludvig lol
Josey Wales
Registered User
- May 16, 2022
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Per the NHL's media Web site, Jansen Harkins (concussion) has been designated to injured reserve.
- Jun 13, 2010
- 43,874
- 23,096
I think the focus on that trade would be the 1st and 3rd. I think Broberg is a little higher than Ludvig but would suggest that he'd be a comparable player to Smith and POJ at the time we got them. As I said, I would ask for Tullio or Petrov in addition to him.
12 games between now and the deadline. These next 12 games will decide the immediate future of the Pens and possibly the rest of the Crosby era.
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
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I agree Huberdeau is a bounce back candidate, but I think we need goal scorers and he's more of a playmaker. That's why I'd rather just try to re-sign Jake. At that price, though, I'd have a hard time saying no.
No interest in Kakko beyond a sub $2M 3RW project.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 36,663
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I'd take a swing on Huberdeau depending on the details. A return to even near his previous form does a good bit to fix some of our issues.
- Jun 13, 2010
- 43,874
- 23,096
Well let's play more what-if for discussion sake:
Bertuzzi-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Puustinen
Huberdeau-Yager-Puljujarvi
Huberdeau's playmaking + Yager's shot...could be a nifty combo.
- Jun 13, 2010
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Stealing @Empoleon8771 's post from the Guentzel main board thread: Maatta/Chiarot, Berggen, Buium, 1st for Jake seems like the kind of return that would intrigue Dubas.
Buium is having a very good year at Denver. The 1st could potentially be used to get his younger brother Zeev. I could that being an interesting piece for the Penguins to market to the fans in Pittsburgh. Assuming both work out, they could become a decent trio with Yager.
Or, more realistically if we are in the 10-15 range, I take Tij Iginla.
That all said, I wouldn't shake a stick for a moment at taking Chiarot back and trying to flip him for a 2nd to a team wanting a RD upgrade. At that point, we could easily retain.
Buium is having a very good year at Denver. The 1st could potentially be used to get his younger brother Zeev. I could that being an interesting piece for the Penguins to market to the fans in Pittsburgh. Assuming both work out, they could become a decent trio with Yager.
Or, more realistically if we are in the 10-15 range, I take Tij Iginla.
That all said, I wouldn't shake a stick for a moment at taking Chiarot back and trying to flip him for a 2nd to a team wanting a RD upgrade. At that point, we could easily retain.
pistolpete11
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2013
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Sorry, but I don't like it.
I have no faith Yager is ready for the NHL next year, Malkin needs more help than DOC and Puusy, and Crosby will probably see some fall off going from Jake to Bertuzzi as well.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
The main appeal of that deal is the Wings 1st that will be sitting around 20th overall, but both Buium and Berggen are appealing B level prospects I think.
My goal return for a Guentzel trade is what Horvat brought back last year: a short term cap dump, a B+ prospect and a mid 1st. Maatta, Buium, Berggen and a 1st seems pretty aligned with that in value.
Randy Butternubs
FDJT
Seconded on thinking Yager won't be NHL ready come next season.
And Hooby scares me. What the heck is going on with him?
And Hooby scares me. What the heck is going on with him?
Yager won't be ready next year, especially not in a 3C role. Maybe some games at 3RW with injuries.
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