Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Darren McCord]

Trading Sidney Crosby is a great way to kill hockey in Pittsburgh and cause the team to move, if that's what you're aiming to do.

But oh boy, think of the 30th overall picks they could get for him. They might even get Olli Maatta or Kasperi Kapanen with those picks!

Honestly if Mike Sullivan outlast Sidney Crosby I won’t be watching this team for a while.

That team will be worse than bad. It will play the worst style of hockey and be unbearable to witness

 

[Empoleon8771]

Best to keep him and watch him put up 55 points and a -38 into his late 30s. That’ll save hockey in Pittsburgh. And that’s sure what I wanna watch.

Yes, I'd much rather see that than the franchise icon be traded for a shitty rental package that will soil the fans on the franchise entirely.

 

[Pens1566]

Trading Jake to a contender w/retention could potentially put us in a much better position next season.

I say that thinking this season is absolutely gone in terms of competing. That ship has sailed. It's also not the only thing I'd do, but Sully is staying here and some of the other dead weight might have their feelings hurt by treating this like a business and assuming they're adults.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, I'd much rather see that than the franchise icon be traded for a shitty rental package that will soil the fans on the franchise entirely.

If they’re Crosby fans and not Penguins fans then nothing we do will matter because Crosby can’t play forever.

Trading Jake to a contender w/retention could potentially put us in a much better position next season..

I don’t see how. That’s 40 goals. If the pick and/or prospect is close to replacing some of that then they wouldn’t be trading them. So we’d have to replace him in free agency. We’d have space, but no guarantee any 30+ goal scorers even reach free agency, let alone that they want to sign here, even if we outbid everyone else.

 

[The Old Master]

Trading Jake to a contender w/retention could potentially put us in a much better position next season.

how? we are not getting a better player back. any prospects/picks will be a year or two away. add to that the core we be older and they are slowing down.
edit; if we can get the 1st oa then we might be able to turn it around quickly!

 

[Turin]

Oh we're back to trade Sid posting. Shut the f*** up.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The idea that the only valuable 1sts are top 5 picks is an extremely myopic, Pittsburgh-tainted view of things. This applies to trading Guentzel, Karlsson, Jarry, Pettersson, Rust or anyone else. Getting future assets is probably better because the team has the 15th-20th best team currently.

 

[Jacob]

Oh we're back to trade Sid posting. Shut the f*** up.

How about I show you what it’s like.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think the NHL officially returning to Olympic participation all but seals the deal that Sid will re-sign for one final year just to be eligible to play on Team Canada with guys like MacKinnon and McDavid.

I don't think he'd play anywhere else regardless of how bad the team is, he'll just retire after the 2025-26 season imo.

Doesn't mean the team shouldn't begin the teardown this spring, with Jake being the first domino to fall. Other pieces won't be as easy to trade because of cap hits or NTCs, but whatever. They had a great era, run's been over for a while. Let Sid and Geno do their victory lap on a team devoid of talent (already close to that) and turn the page when they retire I guess.

 

[chethejet]

Pens with losing are in a difficult position. They are still in it to a degree, but games in hand 2 vs Det and 4 bx Flyers are just opportunities. In short, Jake if a deal is to Dubas liking, needs to move Jake. Then one more year to go until the purge is now real. Rust, Karlsson and to me one year of Geno to Florida just opens up picks and whoever can develop at that time.

 

[Come on]

All the we need 1st rounders for Guentzel is beyond lost in the past. You dont win in the NHL today loading up with draft picks. It doesn't work that way anymore. Ask any expansion franchise. CAP SPACE IS THE ABSOLUTE KING. Vegas had 8,000,000 draft picks look at their roster and see how many are playing for them. Look at the Kraken. Also look at Arizona after gathering top picks for forever are just now playing eh. You leverage your cap space to get affordable talented players. You use picks as a tool to open space by trading to those teams that still value them for whatever reason. If you want a terrible painful rebuild aquire draft capital. If you want to take one more run you open up cap and use it to aquire solid players that cap strapped teams must jettison.

If you trade Jake you get young Nhl ready talent not picks and prospects. You add 2 nds or 3rds to Smith, Rakell and Graves if you have to to move those contracts. If you have to get low picks to move POJ. So be it resign Ned quickly to a team friendly deal. Keep Eller as his hit is fine for what he does. If you can do those things you are looking at around 30 mill in cap space(14.75 +projected increase + players coming off.)

You would still have
Sid, Rust, Geno, Letang, Karlsson, Petts, DOC, Eller, Puul, Puusy, Poulin, and whatever young talented players you got for Jake,Jarry and Ned to build around. Leverage that space and you could make a pretty competitive team. Heck throw together a banger fourth line like the alot of teams. Add some grit and physicality for cheap, then you are really ready to bulk the other three lines and grab a couple solid dmen.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Trading Sidney Crosby is a great way to kill hockey in Pittsburgh and cause the team to move, if that's what you're aiming to do.

But oh boy, think of the 30th overall picks they could get for him. They might even get Olli Maatta or Kasperi Kapanen with those picks!

If Penguins fans are that fickle, then aren't the Pens doomed anyways? Because Sid's going to be 37 this summer and won't play forever.

So if they'll stop watching if he's dealt, then why wouldn't they also stop watching once he retires in a couple of years?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If Penguins fans are that fickle, then aren't the Pens doomed anyways? Because Sid's going to be 37 this summer and won't play forever.

So if they'll stop watching if he's dealt, then why wouldn't they also stop watching once he retires in a couple of years?

Most Penguins fans can accept a slow decline and inevitable rebuild as long as Crosby remains a Penguin until he retires.

Far fewer can accept trading him and accelerating the rebuild, especially since this isn't a Ray Bourque situation where he needs a Cup to complete his career.

The only fans remotely willing to consider trading Crosby are on forums like this one, and we're a very small portion of the overall fandom.

Plus, even if you get the fans on board, you will never get the appropriate return for Crosby. Edmonton lost the Gretzky trade. Quebec lost the Lindros trade. It's doomed to fail.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, interest is already waning after years of JR, Hextall and Sullivan's handiwork. The arena's got more and more empty seats, the team's unwatchable even with Sid playing at an unbelievably high level of hockey for his age. They're barely background noise anymore. The only reason to watch is to see if Sid, Geno, EK, or Letang manage to do something cool.

Once Sid retires, the arena's gonna be a f***ing ghost town. FSG's genius on display paying a billion for a team that may make the playoffs one time in the first like dozen years they own the team--if they make it that long.

 

[eXile3]

They are far more common than you’re pretending they are, plus in your math you’re also accounting for every blue liner, goalie, and physical two way forward being drafted. That’s what I’m saying. Besides, you’re the one claiming it’s impossible to draft a 40G scorer late in the first and in other rounds, not I.


But hey, go off, you obviously love this squad as it is, so who am I to yuck your obvious yum for bad hockey?

Not saying it’s impossible. Saying it’s not likely. It’s just not likely any of the assets we get for him will be as good as he is now.

Trading good current players for a roll of the dice at getting a similar or better one is for rebuilding teams.

 

[The Old Master]

1. If you trade Jake you get young Nhl ready talent not picks and prospects.

2. You would still have
Sid, Rust, Geno, Letang, Karlsson, Eller,

1. I think your living in a dream world, there are just not enough jr's out there for that to happen. imo
2. all are on the downside of their careers. not the best place to be.

 

[Pens1566]

I don’t see how. That’s 40 goals. If the pick and/or prospect is close to replacing some of that then they wouldn’t be trading them. So we’d have to replace him in free agency. We’d have space, but no guarantee any 30+ goal scorers even reach free agency, let alone that they want to sign here, even if we outbid everyone else.

how? we are not getting a better player back. any prospects/picks will be a year or two away. add to that the core we be older and they are slowing down.
edit; if we can get the 1st oa then we might be able to turn it around quickly!

Say you get a 1st, a prospect, and a roster player in return. It's entirely possible that the 1st we select is ready right out of the gate. Not saying likely, I'm saying "possible". Second, the roster player might be someone that either just needs a change of scenery or is someone that fits with us better or fills a need/hole. Third, that prospect will likely be someone that is at the top of our pool just because we've got a ton of top end ECHL talent filling our charts. Any or all of these are possible.

Lastly, you can still bring Jake back in FA.

I'm not saying that these are definite outcomes. But the current course of doing absolutely nothing and hoping for different results is 100% not going to work. Have to do something here.

 

[Jacob]

Ready out of the gate doesn't mean ready to score 30 out of the gate, though. Benson's on pace for 8. Even Fantilli is on pace for less than 20.

 

[The Old Master]

Say you get a 1st, a prospect, and a roster player in return. It's entirely possible that the 1st we select is ready right out of the gate. Not saying likely,

that would need to be a very high pick. unless he's a forth liner that's not going to get better. we are not that bad, (next year maybe) and the teams that are. are not trading for jake.

 

[Pens1566]

Ready out of the gate doesn't mean ready to score 30 out of the gate, though. Benson's on pace for 8. Even Fantilli is on pace for less than 20.

Which is already better than what, half our roster?

Again, not saying it's likely, but it is possible. And doing what we're doing (nothing) is going to end up with a lot tee times in early/mid April. Again.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

https://x.com/nhltradealert/status/1757055988736368898?s=46

Yeah I think Dubas is aware this is cooked.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Good. See ya, Jake.

 

[Come on]

1. I think your living in a dream world, there are just not enough jr's out there for that to happen. imo
2. all are on the downside of their careers. not the best place to be.

That's exactly what it is your opinion. The only dream world is collecting 1st rounders and hoping that they all pan out. Talk about dreaming lol. They don't even have to make a run at it they will be at least competitive. You are the one dreaming if you honestly believe they are going to "tear" it down they can't. To many nmc with the core. If you don't think a you can't move Smith and Rakell with a 2 ND attached you're delusional. Someone will love them a worthless second. As I said the proof is out there if you look. The contending teams are the ones that used their cap space correctly, not the ones who drafted 1s forever and hoped. But you continue to keep your old school ways, that's probably why you named yourself the old master lol

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I'm hoping a team like Seattle catch a bit of fire here and decide to go all in. They're a perfect team with solid prospects and picks and have the luxury of trading and signing Jake!

 

[Nakawick]

Playing on a team that has no realistic shot at a cup, let alone the playoffs would not be very motivating for Sid. The one thing outside of the Pens that could be a motivation factor is for Sid to play his way onto the 2026 Canadian Olympic team. If he stays with the Pens, the end of the 2025/2026 season is probably his last season playing hockey.