Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[AuroraBorealis]

Every teams goal is to make the playoffs. Than anything can happen. They can still make the playoffs, why blow it up only to work to try and get where they are right now.

Right, just like "anything" happened the last 5 playoffs. Let's just learn nothing from the experience, and not stack the odds in our favor at all.
Let's hope for Miracle on Ice every year. Is Herb Brooks available?

 

[Andy99]

Every teams goal is to make the playoffs. Than anything can happen. They can still make the playoffs, why blow it up only to work to try and get where they are right now.

It's funny you think a few years and a team is automatically back in the playoff race. It's going to be longer than a few years just to get the team to the point where they are right now. BET

I’m not sure I’d say they’re in the playoff race now…5 points out and they’re not making up much ground in two months as teams above them keep winning too… 5 points is a lot to make up actually…they need a sustained winning streak and teams ahead of them to lose more often than win…it can happen but if they’re a week from the deadline and still several points out,they have to sell …no choice

 

[AuroraBorealis]

It's funny you think a few years and a team is automatically back in the playoff race. It's going to be longer than a few years just to get the team to the point where they are right now. BET

Ofc it'll be longer than that. Gotta do what you gotta do though. That's how life works.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I’m not sure I’d say they’re in the playoff race now…5 points out and they’re not making up much ground in two months as teams above them keep winning too… 5 points is a lot to make up actually…they need a sustained winning streak and teams ahead of them to lose more often than win…it can happen but if they’re a week from the deadline and still several points out,they have to sell …no choice

They also have the heaviest workload in the league, outside of Edmonton.

 

[Andy99]

They also have the heaviest workload in the league, outside of Edmonton.

The thing is their workload isn’t that bad until after the deadline lol…but you’re going to have to project if you’re Dubas..:if they miss the playoffs again, I see no reason to re-sign Jake from a practical point of view…they didn’t win w him…but they’ll resign him solely to make Sid happy on a declining team…that’s not a way to run an organization if you’re intent on getting back to relevance as soon as possible

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In fairness, Carter did more for us in the playoffs than McCann would have, and the playoffs weren't in question at that point.
Sure, McCann would have led to more standings points, but those don't make any real difference if you're above the cut-off line.

I can't believe people are still bemoaning JC and McCann

JC- was wise to keep him. It was idiotic to EXTEND him

McCann - dude is a do nothing guy in the playoffs and he had NO ROLE here as the roster was constructed.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

And the Flames do this why....?

Selling off assets trying to do a rebuild / retool. Kadri is 7 million against the cap for 5.3 more years.

Cap space is an asset.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

They also have the heaviest workload in the league, outside of Edmonton.

So blow it up because their "workload" is "heavy" I know that's not your entire premise but c'mon

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The thing is their workload isn’t that bad until after the deadline lol…but you’re going to have to project if you’re Dubas..:if they miss the playoffs again, I see no reason to re-sign Jake from a practical point of view…they didn’t win w him…but they’ll resign him solely to make Sid happy on a declining team…that’s not a way to run an organization if you’re intent on getting back to relevance as soon as possible

There's these murderous condensed blocks.

March 2nd to 19th: 11 games in 18 days.
March 22nd to April 8th: 10 games in 18 days

 

[chethejet]

Dubas is falling into the I like this team trap. that has been the issue for the last 3 GM.s they see what they want to see. Now in fairness Dubas had some real bad contracts to unload which he did. Carter over 35 is not moveable, He did not sign Malkin, Rust Rakell and Letang. He did sign Jarry and Graves and the trade for Karlsson was a two year deal as to money was a wash and he has the best player in the deal. I do expect Dubas will move off at least him and Rust for picks after next year. He has Geno open to Florida after next year as well. What to do with jake is the issue. I trade him for the right deal. He must trade him if the Pens are behind the playoff spot with the heavy game load now coming. Jake simply doesn't guarantee anything as to a playoff spot. My guess is he makes the mistake of signing him and doesn't maximize his value which will never be higher than the top winger in the TDL this year.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

There's these murderous condensed blocks.

March 2nd to 19th: 11 games in 18 days.
March 22nd to April 8th: 10 games in 18 days

Those two blocks basically sit next to eachother.....

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So blow it up because their "workload" is "heavy" I know that's not your entire premise but c'mon

No. Blow it up so you get futures and some assets out of this year, instead of needless asset subtractions, an R1 exit or just golfing before that begins.
Why is this concept so hard for you to grasp?

I can't believe people are still bemoaning JC and McCann

JC- was wise to keep him. It was idiotic to EXTEND him

McCann - dude is a do nothing guy in the playoffs and he had NO ROLE here as the roster was constructed.

McCann has value for teams who need help getting in. Like this year for example he would be very valuable for us. He could help PP1, like he did before.
But on that 2021 team they got in with like a 17 point surplus, so he wasn't really needed. He was just gravy.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Dubas is falling into the I like this team trap. that has been the issue for the last 3 GM.s they see what they want to see. Now in fairness Dubas had some real bad contracts to unload which he did. Carter over 35 is not moveable, He did not sign Malkin, Rust Rakell and Letang. He did sign Jarry and Graves and the trade for Karlsson was a two year deal as to money was a wash and he has the best player in the deal. I do expect Dubas will move off at least him and Rust for picks after next year. He has Geno open to Florida after next year as well. What to do with jake is the issue. I trade him for the right deal. He must trade him if the Pens are behind the playoff spot with the heavy game load now coming. Jake simply doesn't guarantee anything as to a playoff spot. My guess is he makes the mistake of signing him and doesn't maximize his value which will never be higher than the top winger in the TDL this year.

Dubas also has his hands tied with FSG's demands for the next few seasons. FSG are open to a proper rebuild, I believe, but not before they make a last stab out of it with this core.
They want some early returns out of this investment.

To me it looks like there's an agreement to try until Sid's contract ends, assess the situation, and then Kyle is free to do whatever he wants.

Considering that mandate and the shitty roster situation he had when taking over, he's done pretty well imo. A lot of moves make sense.
A lot of choices were made with the intention of becoming a shutdown team, which has happened. The team's 5th in GA/G.
What he didn't anticipate was that the PP would be 30th at this point. That's what's held them back from having a playoff seed atm.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Right, just like "anything" happened the last 5 playoffs. Let's just learn nothing from the experience, and not stack the odds in our favor at all.
Let's hope for Miracle on Ice every year. Is Herb Brooks available?

Every season is different than the prior season, what happened last season has no bearing on what happens this season. That's why its called a new season

Its not wrong, much can go wrong in a "rebuild" just ask all those teams rebuilding who have had unsuccessful "rebuilds" (There are plenty of them).

If you ask any and I mean any player in hockey what the goal is, its to make the playoffs and go on a run. You can throw all that other shit out the window once you get there, you know why? Because it doesn't matter. Its a new season

If this team gets the powerplay worked out and one or 2 pieces that fit they will be no easy out.......guaranteed and that's all you can ask.

But lets blow it up and hope in 6-7 years we can be in the exact position we are in today to make the playoffs and hope to go on a run................its brilliant

 

[IcedCapp]

Well silly me for wanting the organization to be contenders…

I’m just saying that if you hate everything everywhere all at once, the times you should be angry lose some of their meaning.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The Pens need to win 9 out of their next 10 games for me to be comfortable with holding onto Jake.

This exactly. And if they and rest of the Metro win 9/10, then you gotta sell anyway

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The thing is their workload isn’t that bad until after the deadline lol…but you’re going to have to project if you’re Dubas..:if they miss the playoffs again, I see no reason to re-sign Jake from a practical point of view…they didn’t win w him…but they’ll resign him solely to make Sid happy on a declining team…that’s not a way to run an organization if you’re intent on getting back to relevance as soon as possible

The practical reasons are that:

- the team committed to the Core 3 and a proper rebuild is impossible until they are gone

- the return will not include anything resembling the sort of blue chip prospect needed to kick start a rebuild

- Guentzel is not the problem, and any number of underperforming complementary players should be dealt before declaring the core can't win, when the core has been outperforming their contracts

- this team will need to hit the skids hard in order to have a successful rebuild...not anywhere near there yet

A lot of choices were made with the intention of becoming a shutdown team, which has happened. The team's 5th in GA/G.
What he didn't anticipate was that the PP would be 30th at this point. That's what's held them back from having a playoff seed atm.

Then isn't the logical choice to try to fix the PP before throwing in the towel?

 

[SEALBound]

From a poster on another site:

“Pagnotta was on NHL radio this morning. Said both sides have confirmed that no negotiations have happened with Jake yet. Said it will happen in the off-season. He also said Jake is not available and Dubas is not in a rush to do anything.

He did say he could see the Pens doing a lateral move, moving Smith out for a different forward type of deal.”

Im sorry but Dubas holding on to Jake if the Pens are any more than 1-2 points out of a playoff spot by the deadline would be the stupidest asset management and should be just cause to fire him and revoke his contract lol

I will accept the idea that holding on to Jake makes sense from the "competing" and "keep Sid happy" standpoints. The thing is, if you keep him after the TDL, you 100% have to sign him to avoid one of the biggest GM blunders of the last 20 years. If it comes with an extension, I'm likely okay because it means you are keeping a top line LW that you can't replace via trade or in FA. You have a guaranteed 30 goals next year with potential for 40+. There are worse things to do to yourself.

The moving Smith thing is a mere rearranging of Titanic deck chairs. Fun to speculate and get a new toy eventually but let's not kid ourselves, it's not changing anything.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Selling off assets trying to do a rebuild / retool. Kadri is 7 million against the cap for 5.3 more years.

Cap space is an asset.

Flames are 1 point out of the playoffs. Kardi is the better player and plays the more important position. Flames arent worried about cap space.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Flames are 1 point out of the playoffs. Kardi is the better player and plays the more important position. Flames arent worried about cap space.

Traded Lindholm away.

Plan on trading Tanev
Plan on trading Hanafin if he does not sign.

A team trying to make the playoffs does not do this.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Traded Lindholm away.

Plan on trading Tanev
Plan on trading Hanafin if he does not sign.

A team trying to make the playoffs does not do this.

Lindholm was a negative black cloud who was not helping the team, same with Zadorov. Tanev is being shopped because his contract demand is unreasonable. All signs point to Hanifin signing a new deal.

Kadri has a NMC and has been pretty clear he isnt interested in moving at this time. Flames arent going to just give him away even if he wants to move. This trade only benefits the Penguins. Last thing the Flames need to do is move another center for a winger.

 

[SEALBound]

Lindholm was a negative black cloud who was not helping the team, same with Zadorov. Tanev is being shopped because his contract demand is unreasonable. All signs point to Hanifin signing a new deal.

Kadri has a NMC and has been pretty clear he isnt interested in moving at this time. Flames arent going to just give him away even if he wants to move. This trade only benefits the Penguins. Last thing the Flames need to do is move another center for a winger.

Really tough to know what Calgary will do. They are in a similar boat as us with a "win now" team roster that is underperforming making you wonder if they need to blow it up and dump guys for value.

Like you, I don't think either of those trades are a solid indicator of overall direction. If I'm Calgary, I try to make a large Huberdeau trade this off-season, then try one more time next year. If that goes poorly, then you have a serious conversation about a re-tool.

 

[canadianguy77]

If I’m putting things together and reading between the lines properly, there are a few on here who want to get rid of Jake just because it would really stick it to Sid. They believe it’s actually 87 who is calling the shots for the organization, and he’s main reason the team is mired in mediocrity because he can control this head coach and get the best line-mates.

A 30 game stint 4 years ago somehow proves that Rust/Geno/Jake is the greatest line combo this team this team has ever had in the Sid/Geno era, even though Rust/Sid/Jake had essentially the same numbers that season.

It’s getting bizarre around here. I honestly think some posters on here are just angry and frustrated that 71’s game has fallen off a bit compared to 87’s game. If you point that out to them, they just say you’re a Crosby fanboy and dismiss your argument, even if you’ve been a Pens fan since before Sidney Crosby was born…

 

[3ladesof5teel]

If I’m putting things together and reading between the lines properly, there are a few on here who want to get rid of Jake just because it would really stick it to Sid. They believe it’s actually 87 who is calling the shots for the organization, and he’s main reason the team is mired in mediocrity because he can control this head coach and get the best line-mates.

A 30 game stint 4 years ago somehow proves that Rust/Geno/Jake is the greatest line combo this team this team has ever had in the Sid/Geno era, even though Rust/Sid/Jake had essentially the same numbers that season.

It’s getting bizarre around here. I honestly think some posters on here are just angry and frustrated that 71’s game has fallen off a bit compared to 87’s game. If you point that out to them, they just say you’re a Crosby fanboy and dismiss your argument, even if you’ve been a Pens fan since before Sidney Crosby was born…

I don't even know if that's so much essentially true. They are definitely different style of players but if you give Geno a Jake level winger I don't think you see such a glaring drop off.

I do see Geno at times trying to do to much which results in some mishaps but how can you blame him. Look at his common linemates over the season and what they have done themselves

I do love to see DOCs game lately but it's not the drive a line scoring that you actually want.

I guess the good thing is we still have not 1 but 2 legendary hockey players that can still play with the best of them.

 

[Gurglesons]

If I’m putting things together and reading between the lines properly, there are a few on here who want to get rid of Jake just because it would really stick it to Sid. They believe it’s actually 87 who is calling the shots for the organization, and he’s main reason the team is mired in mediocrity because he can control this head coach and get the best line-mates.

A 30 game stint 4 years ago somehow proves that Rust/Geno/Jake is the greatest line combo this team this team has ever had in the Sid/Geno era, even though Rust/Sid/Jake had essentially the same numbers that season.

It’s getting bizarre around here. I honestly think some posters on here are just angry and frustrated that 71’s game has fallen off a bit compared to 87’s game. If you point that out to them, they just say you’re a Crosby fanboy and dismiss your argument, even if you’ve been a Pens fan since before Sidney Crosby was born…

The only reasons I want to move Jake are below.

1. Our top six is the same build of "undersized, "light forecheckers", effort not skill" types and Rust, Rakell, and Smith all have bloated contracts that won't return us anything.

2. He is potentially not re-signing. If he re-signs before the deadline, I'm fine keeping him.