Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Honour Over Glory]

Depression?

Say what now?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean... Rakell is kinda bad, too.

It's all kinda bad.

I mean is Rakell bad or is he being used badly? Most think the former, the latter know the facts.

Rakell since his injury has deserved better usage and it's not with Malkin which Sullivan has continued to force or give up and place him on the third line waiting for him to have a multi goal game to put with Sid or Geno again.

In first 17 games he had 0 goals with 4 assists, had only 44 shots on goal with a -2. 2.5 shots on goal isn't even bad really, the issue with Rakell was really puck luck and where he was shooting from. He then got hurt on Nov 19th and when he returned December 18 - now?

He has 14pts in 18 games. He's 4th for Pens forwards for pts since December 18 with 5 goals and 9 assists.

First 17 pace - 19pt pace.
Next 18 pace - 64pt pace.

He's done what you want from a player, rebound. And yet hes being used like he's still the player from the first 17 games. He had 4pts in his last 5, yeah assists but still producing given his bizarre usage. He's been used as LW/RW from L1-L3, fits better on L1 but Sullivan has a hard on for pleasing Rust with Sid and Jake.

"Coaching genius."

It's hilarious the first unit on the powerplay is essentially the GCRust line. They scored two powerplay goals today but we know that's not the norm. Today is more of an aberration in that regard.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I mean is Rakell bad or is he being used badly? Most think the former, the latter know the facts.

Rakell since his injury has deserved better usage and it's not with Malkin which Sullivan has continued to force or give up and place him on the third line waiting for him to have a multi goal game to put with Sid or Geno again.

In first 17 games he had 0 goals with 4 assists, had only 44 shots on goal with a -2. 2.5 shots on goal isn't even bad really, the issue with Rakell was really puck luck and where he was shooting from. He then got hurt on Nov 19th and when he returned December 18 - now?

He has 14pts in 18 games. He's 4th for Pens forwards for pts since December 18 with 5 goals and 9 assists.

First 17 pace - 19pt pace.
Next 18 pace - 64pt pace.

He's done what you want from a player, rebound. And yet hes being used like he's still the player from the first 17 games. He had 4pts in his last 5, yeah assists but still producing given his bizarre usage. He's been used as LW/RW from L1-L3, fits better on L1 but Sullivan has a hard on for pleasing Rust with Sid and Jake.

"Coaching genius."

It's hilarious the first unit on the powerplay is essentially the GCRust line. They scored two powerplay goals today but we know that's not the norm. Today is more of an aberration in that regard.

Or maybe he's succeeding because he's being used properly?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Or maybe he's succeeding because he's being used properly?

I can't say I remember him being used any differently from the beginning of the season to recently?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I mean is Rakell bad or is he being used badly? Most think the former, the latter know the facts.

Rakell since his injury has deserved better usage and it's not with Malkin which Sullivan has continued to force or give up and place him on the third line waiting for him to have a multi goal game to put with Sid or Geno again.

In first 17 games he had 0 goals with 4 assists, had only 44 shots on goal with a -2. 2.5 shots on goal isn't even bad really, the issue with Rakell was really puck luck and where he was shooting from. He then got hurt on Nov 19th and when he returned December 18 - now?

He has 14pts in 18 games. He's 4th for Pens forwards for pts since December 18 with 5 goals and 9 assists.

First 17 pace - 19pt pace.
Next 18 pace - 64pt pace.

He's done what you want from a player, rebound. And yet hes being used like he's still the player from the first 17 games. He had 4pts in his last 5, yeah assists but still producing given his bizarre usage. He's been used as LW/RW from L1-L3, fits better on L1 but Sullivan has a hard on for pleasing Rust with Sid and Jake.

"Coaching genius."

It's hilarious the first unit on the powerplay is essentially the GCRust line. They scored two powerplay goals today but we know that's not the norm. Today is more of an aberration in that regard.

GCR is working really well right now.
Rakell is a streaky mid 6 guy having a streaky mid 6 season.

Sorry you can't create me the ideal situation for every single player. Some players are not worth it and you have to plug them in where you can.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

GCR is working really well right now.
Rakell is a streaky mid 6 guy having a streaky mid 6 season.

Sorry you can't create me the ideal situation for every single player. Some players are not worth it and you have to plug them in where you can.

I think this is one of my main critiques with Sully: he doesn't subscribe to the "hot hand" theory unless you're one of his pets.

Rust playing like garbage? Play him until he comes out of his funk.
Any other pets get demoted quickly.

Even good players get in ruts. They should not be immune to being moved down. Conversely, a guy in the bottom 6 should get some opportunities if he's really doing well.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think this is one of my main critiques with Sully: he doesn't subscribe to the "hot hand" theory unless you're one of his pets.

Rust playing like garbage? Play him until he comes out of his funk.
Any other pets get demoted quickly.

Even good players get in ruts. They should not be immune to being moved down. Conversely, a guy in the bottom 6 should get some opportunities if he's really doing well.

I don't have many issues with Sullivan on terms of usage at ES. Rust-Malkin isn't working this year. Rust-Crosby is. Rakell has been bad. He should be buried somewhat.

My issues with Sullivan are his overall staleness, the system staleness and the Powerplay.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Now that Acciari is likely out with a concussion, Sullivan will put even more pressure on Dubas to sign Bonino, because he plays low-event hockey, PKs, and takes faceoffs. Dubas will quickly cave.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Now that Acciari is likely out with a concussion, Sullivan will put even more pressure on Dubas to sign Bonino, because he plays low-event hockey, PKs, and takes faceoffs. Dubas will quickly cave.

I hope he does not cave.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think this is one of my main critiques with Sully: he doesn't subscribe to the "hot hand" theory unless you're one of his pets.

Rust playing like garbage? Play him until he comes out of his funk.
Any other pets get demoted quickly.

Even good players get in ruts. They should not be immune to being moved down. Conversely, a guy in the bottom 6 should get some opportunities if he's really doing well.

Rust has 2 goals in 12 games.

Playing well? Blokes can go f*** themselves with a shattered stick.

I am sure the dumb f*** narrative will then switch to, well he's got 8pts, nah, if assists didn't matter for others, it doesn't for Rust. 2 goals in 12 games is f***ing piss poor. Rakell has 5 goals in 18 games and was quickly demoted.

Some of the dumb f*** comments here to excuse Crosby, Guentzel, Rust, and Sullivan is f***ing pathetic.

Yeah I am pissed off, I keep seeing the bullshit hate towards young players that "just 1 goal in 17 games!" and then toss off to Rust and his 2 goals in 12 like it's more impressive. It just f***ing isn't. He's gotten the best usage of any winger not named Jake and all he has to show for it is 2 f***ing goals. Yet you lot shit all over the other players that are just shoved into spots they are not suited for and either produce more goals in a similar time frame or just barely less. For Rust to get top PP time, top line minutes, etc and just fart out 2 goals is f***ing pathetic.

 

[66-30-33]

Now that Acciari is likely out with a concussion, Sullivan will put even more pressure on Dubas to sign Bonino, because he plays low-event hockey, PKs, and takes faceoffs. Dubas will quickly cave.

Let's do it, we need more old folks.

 

[canadianguy77]

I don't have many issues with Sullivan on terms of usage at ES. Rust-Malkin isn't working this year. Rust-Crosby is. Rakell has been bad. He should be buried somewhat.

My issues with Sullivan are his overall staleness, the system staleness and the Powerplay.

No one is really working with Geno this season and I think that has more to do with Geno than anyone else.

And I don’t think you lose anything by slotting Rak up on L1, but you can gain a lot by moving Rust down to L3 if he’s not going to play on L2. I have never had an issue with Rak on L1…ever. He displays more effort in the defensive end 5 on 5 than Rust does when he’s on L1. And then there’s that little thing where Rust and Jake sometimes compete to see who can make it the farthest up the ice while the puck is still on our zone. Rak doesn’t do that.

None of that matters though, because the minute L1 with Rak goes a game without scoring, Rust goes right back in his spot.

 

[Nakawick]

Move Smith with Sid and Rust and move Jake and Rakell with Geno.

 

[Andy99]

Move Smith with Sid and Rust and move Jake and Rakell with Geno.

That’s the outside-the-box thinking that is heavily discouraged by this coaching staff…nice work

 

[Bishop7979]

Move Smith with Sid and Rust and move Jake and Rakell with Geno.

Hell give sid rak and smith and give Geno Jake and rust. Raks plays well with sid, smith I don't think has ever played with him. When Jake and rust have both played with Geno you've gotten the best out of Geno while still getting similar production for Jake/rust.

Smith, outside of the first handful of games looks out of place with Geno, raks never looks good with Geno.

Maybe get both of them away from Geno and not bury raks on the third line in the process.

I like O'Connor, he is an ideal 3rd line lw, but let's stop trying to push him into the top six when he has 6 goals in 50 games, no points in the last five or six games, and only has 5 shots on goal during that time. Raks is out scoring him in like 15 less games even with his awful start, but is getting shoved to the third line while O'Connor is being played on his off wing across from smith who himself is a total non factor night after night.

 

[Fordy]

Hell give sid rak and smith and give Geno Jake and rust. Raks plays well with sid, smith I don't think has ever played with him. When Jake and rust have both played with Geno you've gotten the best out of Geno while still getting similar production for Jake/rust.

Smith, outside of the first handful of games looks out of place with Geno, raks never looks good with Geno.

Maybe get both of them away from Geno and not bury raks on the third line in the process.

I like O'Connor, he is an ideal 3rd line lw, but let's stop trying to push him into the top six when he has 6 goals in 50 games, no points in the last five or six games, and only has 5 shots on goal during that time. Raks is out scoring him in like 15 less games even with his awful start, but is getting shoved to the third line while O'Connor is being played on his off wing across from smith who himself is a total non factor night after night.

i love it, o'connor got demoted when he was in the middle of a hot streak, but now that he can't buy a good shift even, his 2nd line wing spot is solidified

 

[Honour Over Glory]

No one is really working with Geno this season and I think that has more to do with Geno than anyone else.

And I don’t think you lose anything by slotting Rak up on L1, but you can gain a lot by moving Rust down to L3 if he’s not going to play on L2. I have never had an issue with Rak on L1…ever. He displays more effort in the defensive end 5 on 5 than Rust does when he’s on L1. And then there’s that little thing where Rust and Jake sometimes compete to see who can make it the farthest up the ice while the puck is still on our zone. Rak doesn’t do that.

None of that matters though, because the minute L1 with Rak goes a game without scoring, Rust goes right back in his spot.

No one, is false.

What's been tried really, consistently it's been these:

Rust until Sid needs him
Rakell until Sid's line needs him
Smith until he struggled but his struggles were apparently worse than Rust's even though statistically it wasn't as both dropped off for scoring but had assists.
Colin White - lol

That's, "tried everything!"
Puustinen looked good on his wing but was removed quickly. Doc was good on his line and then removed, went on a dry spell so naturally now is the time to promote him back up.

And yet Malkin is still producing while the coach continues to f*** his line up. Other coaches would see that and be like hey let me drop Jake down to the line and get Malkin going and and in the meantime Sid has Rust so let's see if Smith gets going with Sid.

You'll have a problem with that because that line produces, well no shit it does. They're a good duo. Jake has chemistry with Geno as well. But the moment he showed good flashes with a young winger, Sullivan refused to sustain it.

i love it, o'connor got demoted when he was in the middle of a hot streak, but now that he can't buy a good shift even, his 2nd line wing spot is solidified

It's everyone's fault except Sullivan and the first line.

Tocchet split up the Canucks top line when he had to, to get better depth until they added a player to fix it since Kuzfatsov decided he didn't care about improving on last season. See how a good coach does that?


See how the f***ing loser some of this fan base and the entire Pens media wank off to Sullivan apparently doing amazing things that apparently require missing the playoffs and ruining multiple players that succeed once they leave and are likely missing again. Build a statue!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At this point even if it's 1 game. I'd Puljujaarvi with Malkin maybe put Rakell on his off wing on that line..

It's funny the narrative always was Malkin can play with anyone and it's been mostly untrue for their entire career. Geno had flashes of being good with Feds and Talbot. But it's Sid that took anyone and did well - Hilbert, Army, Kunitz, Dupuis, etc. Geno thrived with Malone, Neal, Sykora up to a point, and Jokinen. Then he had moments of brilliance with Phil and Hags. But those two wingers really did well on the third line, murdering the match ups. Malkin finally got Jake And Rust the one year Sid was hurt and came back later and then Jake got hurt and Malkin was producing at a damn good clip, all 3 were as a unit.

So why is it hard to say hey let's drop Guentzel to Malkin's line and move Smith or someone to Sid since his game isn't struggling. What's going to happen?

I'll tell you what could happen.

Geno starts to produce and play better having support finally.

Sid maybe struggles with the type of wingers Geno was apparently supposed to thrive with or he does well with them.

In any of those scenarios, you get your f***ing answer for what the problem is with the way the roster is being used.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Even if Jake and Geno could be a duo that produces better than Sid and Jake, they'll hate to do it because it means an entire line is better than Crosby's and we know we can't have that at all.

22 games Jake, Geno, Rust were a trio for 2019-20.

Jake - 29pts in 22 games (then got hurt) 1.32ppg
Malkin - 34pts in 22 games 1.55ppg
Rust - 25pts in 22 games 1.14ppg

Rust had his best season as a Penguin playing mostly with Geno that year, Geno was far and away the best Pens player that season, there is literally no season from 2019-20 to now where Crosby's production touches what Malkin was doing. Of course the stoppage happened that season and we later found out Malkin was playing with 1 functioning arm.


Yeah, go f*** yourselves and your Malkin hate. f***ing Crosby fan boys. There's a way to be a stronger team and the coach would rather let a player make the choices for his line than the right ones.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

To put up 1.35ppg pace in 55 games and lead the team with 1 arm and the coach then defaults back to GCR in the play-in and leaves Malkin to struggle, lol, ignore the play in all you lot want. The dumb f*** logic of Sullivan was fully erect by then.

Imagine if HBK showed flashes and then Sullivan figures no, let me force that back to Malkin instead. You don't win that cup. A line worked and it allowed the other lines to also function well. Having a balance vs 1 line is how you win consistently. Not "he gets what he wants!"

 

[Josey Wales]

Bertuzzi - 1 goals in 27 GP OH Yes I remember posters here shitting their pants when the Pens didn't sign him

 

[eXile3]

Do you think Jenner would be available? I know his numbers are down with the injury and playing on a garbage team but he could be a good add.

 

[The Old Master]

No one, is false.

What's been tried really, consistently it's been these:

Rust until Sid needs him
Rakell until Sid's line needs him
Smith until he struggled but his struggles were apparently worse than Rust's even though statistically it wasn't as both dropped off for scoring but had assists.
Colin White - lol

That's, "tried everything!"

this is like a co. that doesn't want to fire an employee, so they start treating them like crap so they quit.

 

[Andy99]

From 32 Thoughts…

7. Jake Guentzel was another to check on post All-Star. Nothing really to report, just that there’s no panic. Everyone seems comfortable for now, in no rush.

And TSN trade board now has Jake #9 on the trade candidate list lol

Calgary Flames highlight top tier of TSN's Trade Bait board | TSN

The Calgary Flames' relay race to the NHL trade deadline continues unabated as our Trade Bait list expands to a Top 40.

www.tsn.ca

 

[SEALBound]

Bertuzzi - 1 goals in 27 GP OH Yes I remember posters here shitting their pants when the Pens didn't sign him

A shrewd playoff team GM would grab both Bertuzzi and Kakko for a solid playoff run. I would.