Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Andy99]

I disagree. The devil you know over the devil you don't. We know Guentzel can produce under Sullivan. For all we know, Lindholm will be the center version of Karlsson under Sullivan. In fact, Lindholm has already started his decline this season under Huska.

So no thank you.

Also, do we know for certain that Crosby is running the show from behind the scenes? That he wants Guentzel to stay, that he wants Sullivan to coach this team, that he wants this team to be buyers not sellers, etc. etc. etc.?

Does not seem like his style. I could be wrong.

Sid has opinions and he’s consulted On them…he doesn’t make the decisions but FSG is desperate to make Him happy and have him end his career as a Pen so connect the dots….

 

[HandshakeLine]

My hot take: if we’re going to replace Jake, please replace him with a different kind of top 6 winger, ideally perhaps a budding young guy with size and physicality.

 

[66-30-33]

My hot take: if we’re going to replace Jake, please replace him with a different kind of top 6 winger, ideally perhaps a budding young guy with size and physicality.

You’re the dream team well we’re the MEAN team!

 

[Harvey Birdman]

My hot take: if we’re going to replace Jake, please replace him with a different kind of top 6 winger, ideally perhaps a budding young guy with size and physicality.

I too wish young Tom Wilson’s grew on trees.

 

[Pancakes]

People act like before Sid the Pens were horrible forever. We were mediocre for like 8 years because the team wasn’t good enough to win but kept trying and then there were, what, 3 years of truly terrible teams?

I get that we tanked at one of the exact best possible times in history, but it’s quicker to tear the bandaid off and go full scorched earth rebuild.

Don’t give me the Buffalo and Phoenix examples either, those have always been badly run organizations and wouldn’t know how to win if you spotted them 3 games and 7 goals in a Cup final.

I’m not a proponent of either way, but the whole “ReMEmbeR tHE bAD yeaRS?!!?!” Crowd acts like watching mediocrity for a decade is better than pure suck for 3 or 4 years.

The Pens are going to tank. It's just a matter of how soon.

Dubas can talk all he wants about wanting to set the Pens up for the post Crosby era and have it be a smooth transition but there's literally zero ways to do that unless he hits home runs with what picks he gets to make between now and when that happens.

And the chances of him hitting said home runs are pretty low because the Pens as currently constructed aren't getting lottery picks in the immediate future.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

Is there THAT much risk in signing Jake long term so he can finish off Sids career and then trade him for similar value in a couple of years. His value wouldn’t really tank that bad. He will still be worth a first and whatever then and that’s probably all you’ll get for him now as a rental. I don’t think it impacts the rebuild much,

We can have our cake and eat it too

 

[Come on]

If you knew Dubas' background and what motivates him, you wouldn't have to ask that question. Just read his bio. Learn something about the guy you're criticizing.
There's a reason a lot of people were happy he came here, and it's not for what he can do with the team while Crosby's here. The Cups ship has sailed.
He's here for the rebuild. That's why the term is so long.

FSG is just demanding that he milk it a bit before pulling the plug, so that's what he's doing. But you'll notice he isn't throwing 1sts and 2nds away, cuz he's not stupid. He knows a lost cause when he sees one.

Again thanks for your opinion. Also thank you for your captivating ideas how the rebuild will go well lmao. "ignore"

maybe, but you also might be able to package them together to get something.

That would be the dream but, I don't think anyone can take on 10 mill in salary without retention and Dubas hates dead money.

 

[Jacob]

Nothing we trade Jake for is helping us anytime soon so we might as well blow the whole thing up if that’s the route we’re taking.

 

[SomeDude]

The Pens are going to tank. It's just a matter of how soon.

Dubas can talk all he wants about wanting to set the Pens up for the post Crosby era and have it be a smooth transition but there's literally zero ways to do that unless he hits home runs with what picks he gets to make between now and when that happens.

And the chances of him hitting said home runs are pretty low because the Pens as currently constructed aren't getting lottery picks in the immediate future.

The coach also won’t play anyone under 27 in a meaningful role. Can’t develop impact players when they never get the opportunity.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The Pens are going to tank. It's just a matter of how soon.

Dubas can talk all he wants about wanting to set the Pens up for the post Crosby era and have it be a smooth transition but there's literally zero ways to do that unless he hits home runs with what picks he gets to make between now and when that happens.

And the chances of him hitting said home runs are pretty low because the Pens as currently constructed aren't getting lottery picks in the immediate future.

I think the idea Dubas has been pushing isn't about avoiding the tank, but to make it last as short as possible through smart acquisitions and moves.

Instead of 5 years of sucking like they did in the years leading up to the Sid/Geno era, maybe it's just a couple.

 

[Pancakes]

I think the idea Dubas has been pushing isn't about avoiding the tank, but to make it last as short as possible through smart acquisitions and moves.

Instead of 5 years of sucking like they did in the years leading up to the Sid/Geno era, maybe it's just a couple.

The only way it's gonna be just a couple if he lands another Crosby and Malkin in a short time span and uh gl with that

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The only way it's gonna be just a couple if he lands another Crosby and Malkin in a short time span and uh gl with that

I think Boston and the Rangers are the model, as neither one has top five or even top picks that they drafted leading the way. It's a few free agent splashes (Panarin), shrewd deals (Lindholm), and quality development of later first round picks and picks later in the draft.

It's a bit less random than hoping you luck into a generational star.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You gotta suck real bad and build back up. This team doesn't have the luxury of destination (NYC, Vegas, Florida, etc) to cut corners and attract top tier FAs. And building through FA is kinda trash 99% of the time anyway. Guys who are worth building around don't hit FA because they're either re-signed, or traded then sign on with their new team.

I just think this team's been wallowing in the mud of mediocrity for years, essentially rebuild years already--they're just not getting any top prospects for being losers. If Jake's deal was up after next season, that'd probably be as close to perfect timing as you can get. It isn't, so the team needs to move him out for pieces for the next chapter. No, they're not gonna be building blocks, but it is what it is.

And they're probably never getting another generational talent. So next time they're competitive, they're gonna have to be a team built really well top to bottom. Probably a first in team history tbh.

 

[Andy99]

I think Boston and the Rangers are the model, as neither one has top five or even top picks that they drafted leading the way. It's a few free agent splashes (Panarin), shrewd deals (Lindholm), and quality development of later first round picks and picks later in the draft.

It's a bit less random than hoping you luck into a generational star.

Those teams have the benefit of being New York to attract FAs and a very good drafting team…they got Pasta and McAvoy without top 10 picks… we don’t have either of those benefits lol

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I understand why people want to prolong the current state and put off the next thing.
I don't agree, but for some it's fun to see a notionally "competitive" team featuring their idols.

I can't really begrudge any decision made. The ~15th best team currently with the bleakest future is like choosing between being shot or poisoned.

Yeah because those people are short-term oriented and greedy.
The reason that guy is projecting at us is cuz deep down he knows this is a fruitless path, but is in denial about the state of affairs.

Everyone knows a rebuild needs to happen. They may as well get on with it asap, instead of wasting people's time.

 

[Jacob]

People want a rebuild but balk at trading Sid, who will absolutely not be in the league when we’re good again.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

People want a rebuild but balk at trading Sid, who will absolutely not be in the league when we’re good again.

Yeah a full tear it down rebuild ain’t happening with Crosby on the team. Which if you don’t care and are okay with seeing him on another team, fine. But it won’t happen with Sid on the team.

 

[Pancakes]

I think Boston and the Rangers are the model, as neither one has top five or even top picks that they drafted leading the way. It's a few free agent splashes (Panarin), shrewd deals (Lindholm), and quality development of later first round picks and picks later in the draft.

It's a bit less random than hoping you luck into a generational star.

Eh, both of them got wildly lucky. The Rangers with Fox just deciding to sign with them and then also deciding to be a superstar defenseman, and the Rangers also getting lucky with Shesterkin being what he has been. And the Rangers are also a premiere location for free agents and have no trouble attracting guys to play there. We I don't think are that, and we certainly won't be once Crosby is gone.

As for the Bruins, similar deal there. Got insanely lucky that Mcavoy and Pastrnak became what they did despite not being particularly high picks.

Like sure if Dubas can grab a superstar with non lottery picks, then yes it will be possible to speed up the rebuild. But it's not a reliable way to do it. We will most likely have to tank unless his scouts hit some grandslams.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

People want a rebuild but balk at trading Sid, who will absolutely not be in the league when we’re good again.

I'm down for a Sid trade if it happened tomorrow, 100%.
All-in on the road to recovery. Besides, Sid would probably end up happier on a contender, fighting in the playoffs, than this crap.

 

[Jacob]

I'm down for a Sid trade if it happened tomorrow, 100%.
All-in on the road to recovery. Besides, Sid would probably end up happier on a contender, fighting in the playoffs, than this crap.

We could get a boatload for him. 3 1sts easily, plus more. That plus moving anything else not nailed down for futures and a couple seasons bottoming out and we’d be a contender again in 3 years.

 

[ColePens]

I'm down for a Sid trade if it happened tomorrow, 100%.
All-in on the road to recovery. Besides, Sid would probably end up happier on a contender, fighting in the playoffs, than this crap.

Would he though? He seems to me like a dude who is more about his overall career. He wants to be on 1 team his entire life. He has 3 Cups. He is content. He knows he's breaking records almost all the time.

I hate playing armchair psychologist but if the dude was frustrated, why is Sully still here?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The issue with trading Sid is that he doesn't seem to want to play anywhere else, holds all the cards, and I think he'd rather retire than pick up and start anew with another organization. But, hypothetically, if he wanted out after a Jake trade at the TDL and further trades (Rust, Rakell, Smith, EK) this summer, so be it.

I think he'll want to keep playing so he's eligible for the 2026 Olympics though. But I imagine the state of the team following the 2025-26 season will see him head to retirement rather than keep going until he's entirely outta gas.

Anyway, trade Jake. It's asinine to hold on to him through the TDL, whether he's re-signed or is allowed to walk.

 

[66-30-33]

Would he though? He seems to me like a dude who is more about his overall career. He wants to be on 1 team his entire life. He has 3 Cups. He is content. He knows he's breaking records almost all the time.

I hate playing armchair psychologist but if the dude was frustrated, why is Sully still here?

I can see him happier adding to his legacy tbh. Doubt it happens but imagine a few more cups for him? But imagine rebuilding instead of getting a new coach for a final few seasons as a "let's just see"? that would be an ultimate joke. I'd be watching a lot of Colorado games if he went there. Can't see him on any other team tbh.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Yeah even with this shit show, I still can’t see Sid asking out. Like I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he re-signs this as soon as this summer.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe he just needs convinced that it’s going to get ugly and he’d be helping the organization by letting us trade him.