Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Big Friggin Dummy]

There's really no reason for Jake to accept a $50 million deal at $8.5 million AAV. He could probably hit double digit AAV if he went to free agency, and if he wants to stick around, his camp could probably pretty easily pressure Dubas into something that started with a 9.

Like I said; ball's in his camp's court. He's gonna get paid either way, just depends on how much he wants for what's probably the last big deal of his career, and how badly he wants another shot at a Cup, cuz that ain't happening here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There's really no reason for Jake to accept a $50 million deal at $8.5 million AAV. He could probably hit double digit AAV if he went to free agency, and if he wants to stick around, his camp could probably pretty easily pressure Dubas into something that started with a 9.

Like I said; ball's in his camp's court. He's gonna get paid either way, just depends on how much he wants for what's probably the last big deal of his career, and how badly he wants another shot at a Cup, cuz that ain't happening here.

Maybe he likes it in Pittsburgh.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

This loyalty thing is really hampering the 2 major Pittsburgh sports teams.

 

[Come on]

This loyalty thing is really hampering the 2 major Pittsburgh sports teams.

Yeah heaven forbid someone be loyal nowadays.

 

[McGroarty2]

What intangible is jake bringing when speed and scoring drop off on a 8 year contract? It's not faceoffs. It's not really passing. It's not defense. It's certainly not forechecking.

Sticktuitiveness?

 

[Turin]

What intangible is jake bringing when speed and scoring drop off on a 8 year contract? It's not faceoffs. It's not really passing. It's not defense. It's certainly not forechecking.

Rewarding his points now, on a contract for the better part of a decade into his mid to late 30s when he's going to decline and not have a top center with him... What are you paying him for in years 4-5-6-7-8?

If they do a free and open contract, so they can trade him for a bag of pucks in 2030 would be the ONLY way.

You've really just got to cut bait with him now. You might lose out in the short term but no way do you end up worse mid/long term.

1. Those are all tangible things. 2. Guentzel isn’t reliant on speed. Hockey sense, hands, vision.. he could absolutely age well.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Agreed, HOG. However, this coach ( I firmly believe) has a lifetime contract with Fenway Sports Group. He is their guy. I think he will outlast Dubas, and he will outlast Crosby, Malkin and Letang. And probably even Karlsson.

He may even outlast us all!

I know you're sort of kidding but I sincerely think the moment Sullivan's actually on the hot seat he will be promoted up to Assistant GM with Spezza and they'll hire a new coach that Sullivan hand picks as his successor or they finally let Dubas hire someone, so Keefe will probably have a job once he's fired In Toronto lol.

Bookmark it. I wouldn't be shocked if Sullivan's final year this is what they do with him. FSG probably will wait 2yrs before they fire Dubas and then promote him to GM.

What intangible is jake bringing when speed and scoring drop off on a 8 year contract? It's not faceoffs. It's not really passing. It's not defense. It's certainly not forechecking.

Rewarding his points now, on a contract for the better part of a decade into his mid to late 30s when he's going to decline and not have a top center with him... What are you paying him for in years 4-5-6-7-8?

If they do a free and open contract, so they can trade him for a bag of pucks in 2030 would be the ONLY way.

You've really just got to cut bait with him now. You might lose out in the short term but no way do you end up worse mid/long term.

That sweet essay he wrote about Crosby will be endless stories until he retires as a Pens legend and becomes a mindless drone on the Pens pbp team or goes into coaching in Minnesota.

 

[66-30-33]

I know you're sort of kidding but I sincerely think the moment Sullivan's actually on the hot seat he will be promoted up to Assistant GM with Spezza and they'll hire a new coach that Sullivan hand picks as his successor or they finally let Dubas hire someone, so Keefe will probably have a job once he's fired In Toronto lol.

Bookmark it. I wouldn't be shocked if Sullivan's final year this is what they do with him. FSG probably will wait 2yrs before they fire Dubas and then promote him to GM.



That sweet essay he wrote about Crosby will be endless stories until he retires as a Pens legend and becomes a mindless drone on the Pens pbp team or goes into coaching in Minnesota.

Naw m8, Leafs miss playoffs and they fire Keefe, Pens miss again and fire Sully and both coaches swap teams.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I hate to say it, but I just really don't see that many positives to keeping Jake around. Unless it's something like an absurdly team-friendly deal with no restrictions on trade or movement, but then he'd be stupid to sign that.

 

[Pancakes]

I know you're sort of kidding but I sincerely think the moment Sullivan's actually on the hot seat he will be promoted up to Assistant GM with Spezza and they'll hire a new coach that Sullivan hand picks as his successor or they finally let Dubas hire someone, so Keefe will probably have a job once he's fired In Toronto lol.

Bookmark it. I wouldn't be shocked if Sullivan's final year this is what they do with him. FSG probably will wait 2yrs before they fire Dubas and then promote him to GM.



That sweet essay he wrote about Crosby will be endless stories until he retires as a Pens legend and becomes a mindless drone on the Pens pbp team or goes into coaching in Minnesota.

Yeah it certainly feels like Sullivan has the job until he no longer wants it. FSG loves him, and Dubas has shown no signs of disliking him either.

I am curious what would happen if the Pens ever went into a tailspin with Sully at the helm but I don't see any long losing streaks coming any time soon.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah it certainly feels like Sullivan has the job until he no longer wants it. FSG loves him, and Dubas has shown no signs of disliking him either.

I am curious what would happen if the Pens ever went into a tailspin with Sully at the helm but I don't see any long losing streaks coming any time soon.

I really don’t see this team making the playoffs, I wonder how they explain this one. Because it either becomes “Dubas didn’t get the right players like JR and Hextall!” Or they’ll shift blame to individual players “Reigning Norris winner suddenly not good in Pittsburgh, his fault! Totally his fault! Definitely not a trend!” Or the usual “We needed more from Malkin, he had stud wingers like Colin White and he still struggled!”

I wonder how much Dubas is going to like hearing that no matter how much he has to like Sullivan because of FSG. Because to get the 3x time Norris winner this summer and see him suddenly drop off like most do under Sullivan, then also see Puustinen where every single mother f***ing metric backs that he should be with Geno, is being utilized on the 3rd line while Colin White gets top 6 minutes, you can’t be ignorant to that while taking blame when you know it’s not your fault.

But in the end, FSG pays Dubas and if they say “you need to make it work with Sullivan” even though 2 other GM’s couldn’t anymore, he has to and if he can’t stand up to it, we’ll be on the 4th GM under Sullivan before he’s ever gone.

This team is so inconsistent and I really will beat that dead horse that it’s all Sullivan’s doing. You can’t have that roster, then use it the way he has and expect to be a strong consistent team when you have players that are playing in the line-up that don’t make any sense for where they are. The roster utilization has to fall on the coach this time around. Dubas added a fair amount of depth and Sullivan has still decided to use the wrong players in advantageous situations that players like Puustinen should be in or even calling up Sam Poulin over playing Harkins and whatever intangibles blokes here think he brings each game.

 

[Pancakes]

I really don’t see this team making the playoffs, I wonder how they explain this one.

I think they have a decent chance to get in, but it certainly feels more likely that they won't. 50/50 at best maybe.

As for how they spin it, that's a good question. A lot will probably ride on what Dubas decides to do with Guentzel.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think they have a decent chance to get in, but it certainly feels more likely that they won't. 50/50 at best maybe.

As for how they spin it, that's a good question. A lot will probably ride on what Dubas decides to do with Guentzel.

By this point last year, they were already ahead in points, this year Dubas improved the roster from last and Sullivan’s turned it into a bigger shit show. I really don’t see Crosby allowing Dubas to trade Guentzel.

Edit: @Pancakes the issue I have is that Dubas has to sort out that 2nd line, you have a winger that has shown the ability to play that role that Sullivan refuses to play him in and has Colin White in that position instead, he has to fix that 2nd line and it’s become a problem in that - You can fix part of it from within but the coach refuses to, so now you have to spend more assets to fix a problem Sullivan has created largely with his ignorance.

For the blokes that love analytics vs the eye test, virtually every analytic that tracks production for players, favours a player like Puustinen being on Malkin’s right wing, which I think might be the balance to make Smith work on that line as well, but Sullivan absolutely does not want to see this kid succeed for some f***ed up reason.

Even if you drop Smith to the 3rd line, Rakell has played LW before so that could work in some ways, but something has to give. I don’t see Dubas being able to move Rakell as quickly as he could Smith and with lesser assets. What a fine mess Sullivan has continued to create. I really don’t think Rakell has been that bad either, I think because of his injury and his slow start before it, he’s kind of been thrown off a lot, but since he has been back from injury he has 14pts in 17 games. Rakell is back on track for the most part, his stats look ugly more so for that rough start before he got hurt in November.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This loyalty thing is really hampering the 2 major Pittsburgh sports teams.

I don't mind the loyalty per se, but this club picks the dumbest players to be absurdly loyal to, like Rust.

 

[Nakawick]

Is Geno being moved to wing?

 

[Andy99]

Is Geno being moved to wing?

No. Not this season, although he’s been playing some wing…it’s a fine idea if they had anyone who could be a top six center for them…right now they don’t…if Yager is ready and can handle center in the NHL, then next season, otherwise I dont see anyone available except Lindholm, but they should pay big money to nab him over paying Jake, for example

 

[pistolpete11]

I have no problem with Dubas taking as much time as possible to decide the direction. Why put self imposed, arbitrary time limits on yourself? If he would have set it 2 weeks ago, he would have decided they are all in. Now, not so much. In 2 more weeks, who knows?

I assume he's been doing the leg work to see what an extension looks like, what a hockey trade looks like, what an all futures trade package looks like, etc. Things don't start moving until like a week out form the trade deadline, so decide around then.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Let's be real, as all know the only reason anyone (fans, organization) is even entertaining the idea of keeping Jake around is Sid. Which, to be fair, is legitimate given what Sid's done. But it starts and stops there.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I wonder if there is a chance that they approach Jake and tell him we are trading you because we need assets but will offer you a big deal come July 1st and want you back!

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder if there is a chance that they approach Jake and tell him we are trading you because we need assets but will offer you a big deal come July 1st and want you back!

It wouldn’t hurt to try, but if he hits the market he’s gonna get paid. I don’t think we can or should get into a bidding war over his services.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I really like Jake and he's done a lot of good, here.

But... and I know this is hyperbole and the timeline is off... it would feel a bit like handing Rob Brown a huge contract with term while Lemieux was almost out the door.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think if we hadnt drafted Jake, but merely acquired him in 2015, he’d be already gone.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think if we hadnt drafted Jake, but merely acquired him in 2015, he’d be already gone.

Same with Rust.

This team likes huffing it's own farts too much, sometimes.

 

[Andy99]

Let's be real, as all know the only reason anyone (fans, organization) is even entertaining the idea of keeping Jake around is Sid. Which, to be fair, is legitimate given what Sid's done. But it starts and stops there.

I would say the same thing for Sullivan…he and Sid are apparently close…believe Sid is the main reason he hasn’t and won’t be fired…

Jake is #15 on the trade board…he needs to be traded if the return is really good…

Trade Bait: Vancouver Canucks, Edmonton Oilers' first-round picks on the list | TSN

The latest TSN Trade Bait list is out, and the Vancouver Canucks are back in the mix as one of the teams potentially willing to part with a first-rounder some five-plus weeks from the 2024 trade deadline.

www.tsn.ca

According to Gretz…
“Getting to 96 points would mean 45 points over the remaining 36 games, which is a .625 points percentage. That would require the Penguins to not only maintain their current level, but also pick up the pace a little bit. That could be asking a lot. Especially given the Penguins current roster flaws as well as the fact their schedule in the second half is brutal in terms of packing a lot of games into not a lot of days. That could be an issue for the oldest team in the league.”

An updated look at what the Penguins need to do to make the playoffs

Doing the math on what the Pittsburgh Penguins need to do the rest of the way.

www.pensburgh.com

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You keep Jake to placate Sid, but all it does it keep things the same. No idea how people aren't bored and frustrated with watching reruns of the same season for like five years now. It's like being stuck watching season 9 of the X-Files over and over. You keep watching because it's the X-Files, but man, does it suck and pale in comparison. I'll take different, even if it means worse in the standings. And really, how much worse can you get than a team barely treading water to keep in the WC race, with zero shot at a Cup anymore? This team's already in a rebuild, they're just not accumulating top picks yet. The losing's already there, they're a chore to watch most nights, and it's not gonna improve.

I would say the same thing for Sullivan…he and Sid are apparently close…believe Sid is the main reason he hasn’t and won’t be fired…

Jake is #15 on the trade board…he needs to be traded if the return is really good…

Trade Bait: Vancouver Canucks, Edmonton Oilers' first-round picks on the list | TSN

The latest TSN Trade Bait list is out, and the Vancouver Canucks are back in the mix as one of the teams potentially willing to part with a first-rounder some five-plus weeks from the 2024 trade deadline.

www.tsn.ca

According to Gretz…
“Getting to 96 points would mean 45 points over the remaining 36 games, which is a .625 points percentage. That would require the Penguins to not only maintain their current level, but also pick up the pace a little bit. That could be asking a lot. Especially given the Penguins current roster flaws as well as the fact their schedule in the second half is brutal in terms of packing a lot of games into not a lot of days. That could be an issue for the oldest team in the league.”

An updated look at what the Penguins need to do to make the playoffs

Doing the math on what the Pittsburgh Penguins need to do the rest of the way.

www.pensburgh.com

I don't think Sid's lobbying to keep Sully, but I do think people are out to lunch if they don't think Sid (and Geno) are fully bought in on Sully's coaching. It's less about Sid not wanting him fired and more about not wanting to potentially annoy Sid, imo.