Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[HandshakeLine]

Like if they don't want to fix the powerplay that is literally the worst powerplay this team has ever iced (while acquiring the best offensive defenseman of his generation), I don't think they're going to make good use of a mediocre 20 goal try hard dude who absolutely needs the right situation to shine.

Too much thinky thinky for coach brainiac.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like if they don't want to fix the powerplay that is literally the worst powerplay this team has ever iced (while acquiring the best offensive defenseman of his generation), I don't think they're going to make good use of a mediocre 20 goal try hard dude who absolutely needs the right situation to shine.

Too much thinky thinky for coach brainiac.

Oh come on... don't you wanna collect 'em ALL?

Also... acquiring EK was quite the dramatic and over-the-top way to throw the absolute hammer down on the concept that this team can bolster it's offense by working off the blueline. I mean... I bought into it. Because it makes logical sense. But I keep forgetting that this is THIS team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

No, no Willy. Any day now, they'll magically remember how to play transition offense while all the rest of the league forgets how to play a team that telegraphs every pass like they bet their house payments against themselves.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Center depth is certainly an issue. Lack of wings that can play an effective game is an issue. But I have no faith in us bringing in a new 2C or a new top 6 wing and seeing anything different than what we have now. We just don't have a coach with the head for any kind of changes.

I mean, if they were serious about actually doing anything, they'd have fixed the powerplay long ago instead of letting it limp along at a historic all-time low.

That's the result of building your team the way Sullivan wants it built (ie. low talent guys who play a 4th line grinder game).

Skill has no place on this roster. They have to PK and they have to play like ZAR. Otherwise, you're going to be misused badly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Love me some turd zero-event hockey.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's the result of building your team the way Sullivan wants it built (ie. low talent guys who play a 4th line grinder game).

Skill has no place on this roster. They have to PK and they have to play like ZAR. Otherwise, you're going to be misused badly.

Sullivan doesn't construct the roster, though. GMs do that.

We don't know what Sullivan does really. Only that it isn't his fault.

Love me some turd zero-event hockey.

Fast and skilled! That's what they tell me!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I guess we can take comfort in that whatever they do for the next years, no matter what it is, will not result in a Cup. So we don't have to worry about them ruining a potential Cup, since it's impossible.
Knowing that beyond a shadow of a doubt makes things really clear for me. Any stocking up of futures is a good thing right now, even if they are small gains.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm actually kind of curious as to what Dubas is evaluating exactly. Who watches them get trounced by Vegas, Arizona, then Florida...then watches them barely squeak out an OT win on the #14 in the conference / #28 in the league Canadians and say, "And we're back, baby!!!!"

The evaluating should be done. If you're still in the "well maybe..." you're going to be doing that all season and all playoffs...from the coach.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just think Jake's the only avenue for either direction; stocking up to make the post-Sid years as painless as possible, or making a huge deal to try and shake things up for Sid's last run. To keep him, which they're gonna, is just more of the same lame ass shit and a loser decision. But this is a loser organization anymore, so, y'know.

Love me some turd zero-event hockey.

I fancy myself a student of the game and love those 1-0 games where the ice is full of guys doing the little things.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm actually kind of curious as to what Dubas is evaluating exactly. Who watches them get trounced by Vegas, Arizona, then Florida...then watches them barely squeak out an OT win on the #14 in the conference / #28 in the league Canadians and say, "And we're back, baby!!!!"

The evaluating should be done. If you're still in the "well maybe..." you're going to be doing that all season and all playoffs...from the coach.

When you don't actually want to do something you'll find excuses around every corner not to.

 

[SEALBound]

When you don't actually want to do something you'll find excuses around every corner not to.

To be fair, I will submit the following comparison:

"Sales are down and we need to trim some fat to save money"
"Who are you letting go?"
"Our best salesman..."
"Y-you s-sure?"
"............"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To be fair, I will submit the following comparison:

"Sales are down and we need to trim some fat to save money"
"Who are you letting go?"
"Our best salesman..."
"Y-you s-sure?"
"............"

I was mostly referring to firing The Mayor but touche.

Which... honestly won't likely turn things around. But maybe the next guy won't subject us all to eye-torture while being an utterly mediocre team. This IS supposed to be entertainment, after all. I would consider a more watchable product a big win at this point... as I have zero aspirations of them competing, regardless.

Just too much has gone wrong. Unlike a lot of Penguins fans I try to understand that you can't lay this all at like... one or two select players' feet.

 

[SEALBound]

If jake guentzel is to be traded, what do you guys think of columbus blue jackets send Chinakov a 1st and Jiricek for Jake?

I don't think Columbus does that for us.

 

[Andy99]

How Former Penguins are Faring; Who to Blame and Credit

An interesting trend has developed as the Pittsburgh Penguins have undergone tumultuous and significant changes both on the ice and above. The changeover in the front office, combined with a stocked top-six, has created a plethora of former Penguins around the league. Some of them are finding...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

 

[canadianguy77]

What's also amazing about Carter's production is:
- This team plays slow a shitty. You'd think he'd - idk being the veteran goalscorer - actually perform better this year than the last few. We play to his strengths.

- He's in incredible shape for his age. Didn't realize it until that rando locker room shot where the guy looked utterly shredded.

So the fact he can't do anything at all here - he'd be worse on any other team - that's astonishing, because it's bad here.


2C 2C 2C 2C - come on Kyle do something.

Highlight of the season would be firing the whole coaching staff and selling anything not bolted down (Sid/Geno/Letang). New look. Fresh everything next year. This season seems utterly cooked and the longer he waits the more I keep going back to that 1 roster move 1 depth bullshit GM's love to make - which ain't doing a hot damn thing for this team. They need a soul purging at this point.

Just going off my memory, there aren’t very many taller forwards who can maintain their play throughout even their mid-30s. Dmen seem to fare a bit better. Wonder if there is any data to back that up?

 

[chethejet]

Pens had a great run here. It ends with a wimper so be it. Sid will be gone shortly. Jake if he can bring back a great deal then do it. Dubas knows this is not a cup team. So the next two years move assets for picks and Pens can still be developing the talent as we go,Tthat is what a rebuild is. But Pens don't have to tank here. After the trade, cap room and bring up Poulin, to play 4th center. KEEP him there. He is a future center. You have Yager as a potential second center in a couple years. that is a start. Move off sullivan and get bigger, play with some grit and draft accordingly.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Three acceptable options:
1. Resign Jake to the best deal possible. Zero issue with that.
2. Trade Jake with the intention of not resigning him to get the best possible return - 1st + high-end prospect being the key return items.
3. Trade Jake for a smaller return as a rental with the intention of resigning him on July 1st.

Keeping him as "our rental to make a push" should be a fireable offense if he does not resign here.

If I'm Dubas, I clear as much as I can. There's enough in WBS and on the trade market to fill gaps well enough. My dream: Jake, Smith, Acciari, Nieto, POJ, and Neds all dealt.

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
DOC-Malkin-Puustinen
Zohorna-Eller-Puljujarvi
White-Poulin-Carter

Petts-Letang
Graves-EK
Ludvig-Rudwedel-Smith

Jarry-Blomqvist/Hellberg

Not that hard to make a semi suitable team with existing members. This would not take into account anyone that we get back in trade obviously. We also have Nylander. This gives us roughly: 1st, 2nd, 2 4ths, 2 3rds, and a high-end prospect and likely at least one roster player to go into FA and the draft with. This also makes it likely we finish bottom 10 so we keep our 1st. I do think this route puts us in the best possible position moving forward on nearly all fronts.

I think if we trade him he is gone from Pittsburgh

Re sign or trade.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Just going off my memory, there aren’t very many taller forwards who can maintain their play throughout even their mid-30s. Dmen seem to fare a bit better. Wonder if there is any data to back that up?

Would depend on what’s exactly shortening their careers, I suppose. I think that perhaps it could be due to the kinds of injuries you’re likely to face as a forward vs blueliner (e.g. hits in motion, knee injuries, head trauma) and the positions you find yourselves in (braced on the boards or hit clean on open ice, etc.)?

Definitely an interesting question though.

 

[SEALBound]

I think if we trade him he is gone from Pittsburgh

Re sign or trade.

Maybe, maybe not. If you have a talk with him about the "plan" of trade and then resign on July 1st and offer two benefits: 1. the return to help the organization and 2. gives him a chance to go win a Cup (or rather a BETTER chance).

Especially if the proposed contract is in his wheelhouse. I don't think it's that far fetched.

How Former Penguins are Faring; Who to Blame and Credit

An interesting trend has developed as the Pittsburgh Penguins have undergone tumultuous and significant changes both on the ice and above. The changeover in the front office, combined with a stocked top-six, has created a plethora of former Penguins around the league. Some of them are finding...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Surprised it wasn't:

If they are doing well: Well that's because they LEARNED from Sullivan
If they are doing average: Oh well.
If they are doing bad: Well that's because they DIDN'T LEARN from Sullivan

I'd love to have the entire Hextall era over again. Or maybe, even the last year of JR. Certainly at least one day before they decided to trade for Kapanen. That was kind of the beginning of the decline,.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm actually kind of curious as to what Dubas is evaluating exactly. Who watches them get trounced by Vegas, Arizona, then Florida...then watches them barely squeak out an OT win on the #14 in the conference / #28 in the league Canadians and say, "And we're back, baby!!!!"

The evaluating should be done. If you're still in the "well maybe..." you're going to be doing that all season and all playoffs...from the coach.

Yeah I'm not entirely sure what else there is to evaluate at this point. We're almost 50 games in, so they are what they are.

So either you conclude there's something wrong with the roster (ie. not enough scoring throughout) or you conclude the coach is failing YET AGAIN. Not sure what other options there are for Dubas at this point.

 

[molon labe]

Just going off my memory, there aren’t very many taller forwards who can maintain their play throughout even their mid-30s. Dmen seem to fare a bit better. Wonder if there is any data to back that up?

I'm no geologist - but sounds like there might be some base here.

I know other contact sports have reported on it - but it always seems to be a story until it's not. McGrady in basketball, Mario, some baseball players....but are they any less durable than 'smaller' guys or just fewer of them which would lend itself to the optics of it all?


I really am sick of the way these past few years' of teams have been built. Just a whole bunch of vanilla poo out there. It all gets amplified by the likes of Getzoff being a jagoff on "HUGE HIT BY PETERSSON"....like, a junior-high level of contact. Our nasty goals are no longer Hornqvist battling and getting punched in the face by the opposition goalies it's like... well we actually don't get any anymore so no comparable. No nasty snipes. No dirty goals. No good hits. It's the worst hockey product in recent history for the Pens and I'd say it isn't particularly close. You could mask every player and - outside of Sid I'd think they're all Tanner Pearson out there. Disgusting.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Not sure how true this is but thought I’d drop it here.

 

[Andy99]

Not sure how true this is but thought I’d drop it here.

Yeah, I made mention of this previously..it’s a several weeks old rumor…I personally wouldn’t offer much more to Jake and would actually rather trade him

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah I'm not entirely sure what else there is to evaluate at this point. We're almost 50 games in, so they are what they are.

So either you conclude there's something wrong with the roster (ie. not enough scoring throughout) or you conclude the coach is failing YET AGAIN. Not sure what other options there are for Dubas at this point.

Indeed, and in retrospect, this is who they have been the entire season. They haven't really had highs and lows, they've been who they are right now since Game 1, sans for the 2nd line looking better back then and the bottom 6 looking...better-ish....now.

There shouldn't be a "well the NEXT 5 games will tell us...".

Not sure how true this is but thought I’d drop it here.

I could see that being a decent starting point. 6x$8.5mil is hardly an insulting offer to kick start negotiations if it's indeed true. It does run contrary to what they previously said about no talks yet so who knows. He wants that 7th and/or 8th year. 7x9.5 or 8x9...I'd do either honestly.

 

[BusinessGoose]

What intangible is jake bringing when speed and scoring drop off on a 8 year contract? It's not faceoffs. It's not really passing. It's not defense. It's certainly not forechecking.

Rewarding his points now, on a contract for the better part of a decade into his mid to late 30s when he's going to decline and not have a top center with him... What are you paying him for in years 4-5-6-7-8?

If they do a free and open contract, so they can trade him for a bag of pucks in 2030 would be the ONLY way.

You've really just got to cut bait with him now. You might lose out in the short term but no way do you end up worse mid/long term.