Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[CascadiaPenguin]

JR throwing his hands up and unceremoniously dumping a perfectly good defenseman because he was big and lost a fight to some roid monster was a low point in the JR era for sure. Like... days after the incident.

Plus, it really wasn't a fight, by usual league ethics at least. Sociopath Wilson tore across the width of the ice and essentially attacked him. I've enjoyed watching Jamie play for the Kraken and JR blew that for sure. And f*** Tom Wilson anyway. Dude lived in JR's head...

 

[molon labe]

The only thing I see happening with a soft rebuild os it not working down the road 2-3 years later to eventually do a full rebuild and have lost those 2-3 years in the 1st place. That's my opinion. Have a vision, and stick to it

You usually hear about these upcoming phenoms at least 7 years prior to their actual draft year.

That's worth a 'full rebuild' opportunity. The right way.

Whenever the next Bedard(s) are coming down the pipe - they usually have a strong draft class all together. Get a few promising goalies about 3-4 years out from that. Stash them in the minors. Still suck. Grab some D prospects and stash them. Still suck. Draft one of those players in the top 5 and start rolling out your prospects - futures (draft picks) for roster players - and roll up whom you drafted prior.

The idea of slowly acquiring NHLers really doesn't garnish success. Trying to remember the last cup winner without a bonafide all star.... the Blues?


/// Side note: on Friedman: Would love to see us get value out of Guentzel. Would hate for us to then sit on our hands with the likes of Rakell/Smith. Even a 3rd round pick or prospect is worth it and to open up that cap space. Guentzel/Carter/Rakell/Smith would open up 19M + a 4-5M cap raise and you literally have 24M to retool with. Granted I'd still love Kadri cost controlled as a 2C making 7M.. Sell these dudes that haven't fought for success. Sell the dudes who can't carry a line. Again (from yesterday) the idea that you're putting the entire team on the back of Sid/Geno is so 2010s and it's embarassing. They make 14.8M....equivalent of another roster in a vaccuum putting their entire chance of success on a Rakell-Eller-Smith first line. Get another individual line-driving scoring threat please.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

You usually hear about these upcoming phenoms at least 7 years prior to their actual draft year.

That's worth a 'full rebuild' opportunity. The right way.

Whenever the next Bedard(s) are coming down the pipe - they usually have a strong draft class all together. Get a few promising goalies about 3-4 years out from that. Stash them in the minors. Still suck. Grab some D prospects and stash them. Still suck. Draft one of those players in the top 5 and start rolling out your prospects - futures (draft picks) for roster players - and roll up whom you drafted prior.

The idea of slowly acquiring NHLers really doesn't garnish success. Trying to remember the last cup winner without a bonafide all star.... the Blues?


/// Side note: on Friedman: Would love to see us get value out of Guentzel. Would hate for us to then sit on our hands with the likes of Rakell/Smith. Even a 3rd round pick or prospect is worth it and to open up that cap space. Guentzel/Carter/Rakell/Smith would open up 19M + a 4-5M cap raise and you literally have 24M to retool with. Granted I'd still love Kadri cost controlled as a 2C making 7M.. Sell these dudes that haven't fought for success. Sell the dudes who can't carry a line. Again (from yesterday) the idea that you're putting the entire team on the back of Sid/Geno is so 2010s and it's embarassing. They make 14.8M....equivalent of another roster in a vaccuum putting their entire chance of success on a Rakell-Eller-Smith first line. Get another individual line-driving scoring threat please.

Oh trust me, you don't need to convince me, I've been hoping for a retool/rebuild for the past 2 years now. I was pissed when Hextall traded Granlund for a f***ing 2nd... I was ok with trading Letang when GMJR wanted too..

Anyway I just hope Dubas and company realize that, cause right now this roster is not good enough to win and not good enough to tank! We added EK and were pretty much exactly where we were last season, and Jarry has been pretty good so far if you ask me.

Rakell and Rust need to be approached and told that they're no longer needed, give a list of teams and trade them while they still have value!!

 

[Come on]

I'm fine that they went all-in.

But the players they got have no residual value to us.

I'm also pushing back on the idea that we "owe it to the core to keep trying." No, we really don't. We tried pretty dang hard in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021 and 2022. That is 5 years. Now there is precious little left to wring out of this group, we already spent another 1st to bring in a $10M AAV defenseman. The supporting cast is bad now because there's no assets left with which to construct a good one. Try for a new coach bounce, but the group hasn't earned the right for continued investment yet.

I really don't think that the rentals were meant to have any ongoing value. They were what they were. I was totally against the Karlsson signing. You can look back at my posts. It was a terrible investment. In todays nhl cap space > draft picks. With cap space you can aquire proven talent and or picks far easier than with picks. Picks mostly have been tools used to gain cap space in the last couple years in the NHL. So I would argue our cap usage has been a greater detriment than trading first rounders.

The 15 million used on Karlsson and Smith could have totally revamped the bottom six(although I do like the Eller deal). The trades to get rid of Hextall's albatrosses could have still happened with the use of picks and we might still have had our first rounder this year. A couple of seconds or thirds could have moved those contracts last year. I don't believe there will be massive buying at the deadline but, there will be some probably. Dubas isn't ready to throw in the on the playoffs that isn't what he was brought here to do (at least this year).

 

[Phil68]

I don't know how we did not jump on Tarasenko when he is making as much as Riley Smith.. That is such a big upgrade compared Riley.

 

[Ulf5]

Nieto and POJ would get extremely limited returns. For reference, Nieto was traded to the Avs last year with Ryan Merkley for Jacob MacDonald and Martin Kraut.

No one knows who any of those players are.

There are dozens of POJs throughout the league.

Carter won't accept a trade. He has a full NMC.

Smith only cost a third round pick this summer. How is he getting a second round pick this time around when he's been worse and hurt? He's absolutely a potential trade target, but he's not going to return what people are hoping.

Rust just signed. It's doubtful he waives for anyone this early into his contract.

To be fair, wasn't Smith mostly shedding of cap space for Vegas?

 

[Turin]

I don't know how we did not jump on Tarasenko when he is making as much as Riley Smith.. That is such a big upgrade compared Riley.

He initially wanted more/he plays an entirely different style of game at this point

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

I don't know how we did not jump on Tarasenko when he is making as much as Riley Smith.. That is such a big upgrade compared Riley.

Sullys would throw a fit if Tarensenko came over.

 

[Phil68]

He initially wanted more/he plays an entirely different style of game at this point

He is still a bigger better and slightly younger updrade than Riley

 

[Andy99]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/pittsburgh-penguins-predicted-trade-jake-guentzel

let’s hope this bozo is right…

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I suppose salvaging something is better than getting nothing from this season.

 

[SEALBound]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/pittsburgh-penguins-predicted-trade-jake-guentzel

let’s hope this bozo is right…

The bozo is quoting Rossi. Oof. But honestly, a roster player, prospect, or pick is about as logical as it gets, so it's not exactly riveting stuff.

"Oh Dubas isn't sure yet but there would be interest".

I should offer to write for THN. A better discussion would be to suggest teams and options and different ways trades could be structured.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I should offer to write for THN.

C'mon buddy don't put yourself down like that.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas is here to rebuild the roster when it is time. for me he can start the process and still get value back here. Guentzel for a decent young LW and top prospect and pick is certainly the goal here. Pens can make the changes as to transition to much more in the system and maintain a roster that can still be watchable. Sullivan gone, new coaches, new emphasis on players that bring grit, size compete and out work the opponent. Older top heavy contracts just can't be the way to go. To me Hextall set up the contracts to move them with lower salaries and flexible NMC for Rust, Geno, Letang and Karlsson which make them attractive.

 

[LOGiK]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/pittsburgh-penguins-predicted-trade-jake-guentzel

let’s hope this bozo is right…

Bozo.... reminds me of the big one. One bozo to rule them all. HCMS Bozo.
Not watching until the bozo is gone and a serious move has been made in that organization. Could be next week, could be never.

 

[Gurglesons]

I suppose salvaging something is better than getting nothing from this season.

It's hilarious how Dubas is literally doing the same thing as Ron Hextall and nobody in the media is making a peep.

 

[SEALBound]

I suppose salvaging something is better than getting nothing from this season.

I do think the best option is to waive the white flag, recoup assets, and make another legit try again next year. Just because you trade off valuable assets at the TDL, doesn't mean you're done competing. Opening up some roster slots and cap could really help this team out.

As I've said in the past, I think there are a couple cap strapped teams that we could leverage a good player from just like we did with Smith last year.

Classic Jake suggestion - Hoglander, 1st, Lekkerimaki
Smith for a 2nd
Acciari and Nieto for late picks
POJ for a 4th
Nedelkovich for a 3rd

Go into next season with $25mil in space. I then target 1-2 teams that are cap strapped in hopes of getting a decent player for cheap. Some suggestions would be: NYR - Kakko; Canadian - Dvorak; Vancouver - Garland or Mikheyev; LA - Carl Grundstrom; STL - Hayes; Calgary - Huberdeau; Carolina - Bunting

Some of those are less likely than others and some more high-risk than others but there are teams out there to target. A lot of these are in the "free start" category where you may see them pick up play in a new city and on a new team. With Vancouver, you could do a handshake type deal with something like: Jake @50% for Lekkerimaki+1st with the handshake deal that after the season, you do Garland for a 4th to clear space for Pettersson (and more). If we clear some space, it allows us to weaponize it a bit.

 

[Gurglesons]

I do think the best option is to waive the white flag, recoup assets, and make another legit try again next year. Just because you trade off valuable assets at the TDL, doesn't mean you're done competing. Opening up some roster slots and cap could really help this team out.

As I've said in the past, I think there are a couple cap strapped teams that we could leverage a good player from just like we did with Smith last year.

Classic Jake suggestion - Hoglander, 1st, Lekkerimaki
Smith for a 2nd
Acciari and Nieto for late picks
POJ for a 4th
Nedelkovich for a 3rd

Go into next season with $25mil in space. I then target 1-2 teams that are cap strapped in hopes of getting a decent player for cheap. Some suggestions would be: NYR - Kakko; Canadian - Dvorak; Vancouver - Garland or Mikheyev; LA - Carl Grundstrom; STL - Hayes; Calgary - Huberdeau; Carolina - Bunting

Some of those are less likely than others and some more high-risk than others but there are teams out there to target. A lot of these are in the "free start" category where you may see them pick up play in a new city and on a new team. With Vancouver, you could do a handshake type deal with something like: Jake @50% for Lekkerimaki+1st with the handshake deal that after the season, you do Garland for a 4th to clear space for Pettersson (and more). If we clear some space, it allows us to weaponize it a bit.

The best option was to fire the coach after we started the year like a train wreck and to make trades to make this team better in December.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's hilarious how Dubas is literally doing the same thing as Ron Hextall and nobody in the media is making a peep.

Dubas is going to fire the GM that is leading us down this wreckless and cowardly path.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dubas is going to fire the GM that is leading us down this wreckless and cowardly path.

I can't believe Ron Hextall is forcing Dubas to do this.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/latest-news/pittsburgh-penguins-predicted-trade-jake-guentzel

let’s hope this bozo is right…

Never trust a guy who looks like this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Granted I haven't watched this team in a while, but considering the complaints I've read here about how not good this team is, wouldn't not buying/selling make the most sense?

Hextall wasn't criticized because he was trying to both contend and rebuild the prospect pool at the same time. Hextall was criticized because he absolutely butchered their depth while not really improving the prospect pool at the same time. It wasn't Hextall's strategy that was widely criticized, it was that he was shit at his job and did a bad job at both aspects of his strategy.

 

[pistolpete11]

Carter won't accept a trade. He has a full NMC.

This is in all likelihood Carter's last year in the NHL. I could absolutely see him not only willing, but wanting, to go somewhere else and play in the playoffs 1 final time.

The problem is, even at max retention, who's gonna want him?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Good lord Carter only has 7 points in 40 games this year. The wheels have completely fallen off with him. The rapid decline he saw from the first half of the 21-22 season to now is staggering, it's insane he went from "guy pacing for 55 points in a 2C role with Malkin out" to "likely wouldn't even be a top-6 guy in the AHL" in basically 2 years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Good lord Carter only has 7 points in 40 games this year. The wheels have completely fallen off with him. The rapid decline he saw from the first half of the 21-22 season to now is staggering, it's insane he went from "guy pacing for 55 points in a 2C role with Malkin out" to "likely wouldn't even be a top-6 guy in the AHL" in basically 2 years.

Five goals, though!

On this team that's downright top six material!