Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Carter at $3.125
Acciari at $2mil
Rakell with his 5 goals at $5mil
Smith at $5mil
Graves at $4.5mil
Rust hasn't been great lately (ed note @ 5M and airtight trade clauses)

This is so depressing.

I want more hot take articles about how Erik Karlsson is single-handedly destroying this franchise, though.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Eh I take your point. But it's a mixed bag. Some guys have definitely done better once they left.

Kap is a bonified spaz, though. This is true.

That Heinen/Malkin/Kap playoff line was slick, though. Heinen was carrying those two, obviously. It was so great they refused to break it up once Sid went down until they got their nose rubbed in it twice in rapid succession lol

Off the top of my head, the only guys who have notably improved have been Sprong and Lafferty. Both due to opportunities in TOI and deployment they just weren't gonna get here because, ironically, the team loves to keep the forward corps chock full of those Zuckers, Smiths, Kapanens, Rakells, ZARs, Carters, Acciaris and Nietos. But at least Sprong landed the team their only defensively capable blueliner, so I don't get the heat when it comes to Sprong being dealt.

-edit- McCann and Blueger too, I guess. But dudes like Phil, Hornqvist, Dumo, Schultz, Kap, Brassard, Zucker, etc. are all just the same level of mediocre or bad as they were when they were here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Off the top of my head, the only guys who have notably improved have been Sprong and Lafferty. Both due to opportunities in TOI and deployment they just weren't gonna get here because, ironically, the team loves to keep the forward corps chock full of those Zuckers, Smiths, Kapanens, Rakells, ZARs, Carters, Acciaris and Nietos. But at least Sprong landed the team their only defensively capable blueliner, so I don't get the heat when it comes to Sprong being dealt.

-edit- McCann and Blueger too, I guess. But dudes like Phil, Hornqvist, Dumo, Schultz, Kap, Brassard, Zucker, etc. are all just the same level of mediocre or bad as they were when they were here.

Hey now... I didn't say I wanted any of them back. Only that some are doing better since they skipped town.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hey now... I didn't say I wanted any of them back. Only that some are doing better since they skipped town.

I'll continue to die on the hill that protecting Carter over McCann was batshit insane. Dude had sucked shit for years in LA, had a very obvious "new team, fresh start" adrenaline boost that skewed his value, but was always gonna fall off a cliff.

I wouldn't have kept McCann because I think he's just James Neal 2.0; all regular season flash and a ghost come playoff time. But not having the expansion draft looming over McCann trade negotiations probably nets you a return better than a 7th rounder and a prospect playing in Sweden nowadays.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Friedman says the Blackhawks are interested in Kuzmenko.

Wonder if they were approached by the Canucks first as part of a plan to make cap space for Guentzel or Lindholm.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'll continue to die on the hill that protecting Carter over McCann was batshit insane. Dude had sucked shit for years in LA, had a very obvious "new team, fresh start" adrenaline boost that skewed his value, but was always gonna fall off a cliff.

I wouldn't have kept McCann because I think he's just James Neal 2.0; all regular season flash and a ghost come playoff time. But not having the expansion draft looming over McCann trade negotiations probably nets you a return better than a 7th rounder and a prospect playing in Sweden nowadays.

I mean... I think it was pretty eyeroll-worthy because of the sheer performative nature of it all. Yeah we get it, guys... BIG JEFF. But who was seriously gonna grab him and if they did gee golly I guess you might as well pack it in and call it a franchise, huh?

But nah the real crime was extending him to a ludicrous contract mid-season. Especially when there were at least a small handful of interesting guys at the time you could evaluate at seasons-end for the same role.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The tripling down on speed when your best players are all in their mid-to-late 30's was always baffling to me, but especially when that 'speed' is on the wrong side of 30 themselves.

It's not even all that fast, tbh. It's amazing to me that people will say "we're a fast team" with an absolute straight face and not an ounce of shame.

Slow the game down, get physical. That's really the only way we can deal with aging stars. Maybe keep one speedy do nothing guy for Sid because he's into that, the freak.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean... I think it was pretty eyeroll-worthy because of the sheer performative nature of it all. Yeah we get it, guys... BIG JEFF. But who was seriously gonna grab him and if they did gee golly I guess you might as well pack it in and call it a franchise, huh?

But nah the real crime was extending him to a ludicrous contract mid-season. Especially when there were at least a small handful of interesting guys at the time you could evaluate at seasons-end for the same role.

Oh I caught heat for suggesting the 2nd year and NMC on his deal was bewilderingly stupid. "Oh no, a second year" or some bullshit. Typical doomer BFD.

This team's been so f***ing lame, and so f***ing predictable, for years. It sucks. The era was always gonna end, but the way it's ended thanks to the handiwork of JR, Hextall and Sullivan (with an honorable mention to Mario and FSG) has been so maddening that I stopped giving a shit years ago and am entirely on apathy island now. This team used to be a hobby, now it's barely a habit.

 

[SEALBound]

This is so depressing.

I want more hot take articles about how Erik Karlsson is single-handedly destroying this franchise, though.

Yeah but I think the more depressing part for me is the fact that, maybe sans Carter, that is not a list of incompetent players. They are just all underperforming relative to expectations. Could even add Malkin to the list of underperformers. There comes a time when you tell yourself that it's probably not every one of those players suddenly becoming bad players. It's likely the coaching staff.

Friedman says the Blackhawks are interested in Kuzmenko.

Wonder if they were approached by the Canucks first as part of a plan to make cap space for Guentzel or Lindholm.

That would be a great way for them to clear cap, especially if teams like Pittsburgh and Calgary have zero interest in him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's cool that Sullivan's "it worked in '16, it'll work again, I'm sure of it!" thing despite repeated and embarrassing failures is so much like Shero's approach to GMing where he saw Patrick's core win a Cup with guys like Fedotenko and Talbot in elevated roles that he just leaned hard into the "f*** it, Sid and Geno will carry whoever I grab from the bargain bin".

Whatever accolades and fanfare Sid and Geno's careers end up garnering is probably going to fall woefully short considering what they accomplished with some absolutely donkeybrains GMs and coaches along the way.

 

[ChaosAgent]

We can't put a good team around the core because we traded our first round picks in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021 going for it with them already. And all of the players we got with it are either gone or walked for a fraction of the acquisition cost. It's not incompetence now. We already fired the bullets in the gun from 2018-2021.

 

[Andy99]

We can't put a good team around the core because we traded our first round picks in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021 going for it with them already. And all of the players we got with it are either gone or walked for a fraction of the acquisition cost. It's not incompetence now. We already fired the bullets in the gun from 2018-2021.

I tend to agree…therefore trade Jake

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah but I think the more depressing part for me is the fact that, maybe sans Carter, that is not a list of incompetent players. They are just all underperforming relative to expectations. Could even add Malkin to the list of underperformers. There comes a time when you tell yourself that it's probably not every one of those players suddenly becoming bad players. It's likely the coaching staff.

Well YEAH. You know who you're talking to here, right? Hahaha

But it's more than just that. Fair amount of mismanagement and awful choices re: roster construction the last ~5ish years, as well. I tend to think much of it is specifically what the coach was asking for but YMMV on that point.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We can't put a good team around the core because we traded our first round picks in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021 going for it with them already. And all of the players we got with it are either gone or walked for a fraction of the acquisition cost. It's not incompetence now. We already fired the bullets in the gun from 2018-2021.

It's not important to have effective NHLers coming up through the system on ELCs, man. Picks and prospects are worthless, we gotta go all-in now and every year, chasing the talents of Jason Zucker and Kasperi Kapanen--while also spending all available cap in FA to fill out the bottom-6 with the McGinns, Nietos and Acciaris of the world.

 

[SEALBound]

It's cool that Sullivan's "it worked in '16, it'll work again, I'm sure of it!" thing despite repeated and embarrassing failures is so much like Shero's approach to GMing where he saw Patrick's core win a Cup with guys like Fedotenko and Talbot in elevated roles that he just leaned hard into the "f*** it, Sid and Geno will carry whoever I grab from the bargain bin".

Whatever accolades and fanfare Sid and Geno's careers end up garnering is probably going to fall woefully short considering what they accomplished with some absolutely donkeybrains GMs and coaches along the way.

I think that's the thing though - he's not even doing what we he was doing in 2016 when we won! 2016 was predicated on 3 scoring lines, willingness to mix and match lines, a willingness to adjust to opponents, and a no non-sense attitude of "just play".

We are far, FAR from that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think that's the thing though - he's not even doing what we he was doing in 2016 when we won! 2016 was predicated on 3 scoring lines, willingness to mix and match lines, a willingness to adjust to opponents, and a no non-sense attitude of "just play".

We are far, FAR from that.

It's to the point where I think it's an honest question of how much that 2015-2016 was actually him and not the combined input of the entire coaching staff.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's not important to have effective NHLers coming up through the system on ELCs, man. Picks and prospects are worthless, we gotta go all-in now and every year, chasing the talents of Jason Zucker and Kasperi Kapanen--while also spending all available cap in FA to fill out the bottom-6 with the McGinns, Nietos and Acciaris of the world.

Don't forget ol Reaver! What a trade that was!

Hey... speaking of... just saw Reaves got back in action for TOR a few days ago. He has as many goals as Rust this month. Huzzah!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Don't forget ol Reaver! What a trade that was!

Hey... speaking of... just saw Reaves got back in action for TOR a few days ago. He has as many goals as Rust this month. Huzzah!

Reaves would be valuable if he was anything like the archaic fantasy people envision. The instigator nullifies the Reaves' of the world and without that aspect, well, you got yourself a f***ing beer leaguer who can't score and is arguably the worst defensive player in the league.

(Remove the instigator. Particularly because the NHL won't protect its players, so let them police the game themselves. I say this as someone who couldn't give a shit less if there was never a fight in hockey again.)

It's to the point where I think it's an honest question of how much that 2015-2016 was actually him and not the combined input of the entire coaching staff.

And like in '09, a collective sigh of relief to not be playing for the previous coach anymore.

 

[Ryder71]

Jake totally seems like the kind of guy that can carry the franchise on his back and put butts in the seats so I look forward to him being this team's 9+ million dollar feature player!

They can miss the playoffs without him just as easily with him. Point being, might as well get some future assets in the process. Or at least some good young players from a team missing ''that piece'' where by Jake can take them to the next level.

Why do we wanna keep Jake when we're not going anywhere? Its just a waste.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's not important to have effective NHLers coming up through the system on ELCs, man. Picks and prospects are worthless, we gotta go all-in now and every year, chasing the talents of Jason Zucker and Kasperi Kapanen--while also spending all available cap in FA to fill out the bottom-6 with the McGinns, Nietos and Acciaris of the world.

I'm not even saying these were terrible moves in of themselves, or inappropriate at the time. We just need to get real with our expectations. We blew our assets on Brassard, Zucker and Kapanen. None of them are here and neither is anyone from their "trade tree." So instead of internal impact players, we get other teams spare top 6er or fringe 4-5 Damn they don't want to pay. You can't just keep doing this forever.

 

[Ryder71]

All things considered, I think we see what a deal Sid, Geno, and Letang are but I don't think they are the issue. The problem is, we have a lot of money ties up in underperforming assets.

Carter at $3.125
Acciari at $2mil
Rakell with his 5 goals at $5mil
Smith at $5mil
Graves at $4.5mil
Rust hasn't been great lately
And I would even say EK at $10.5mil isn't providing $10.5mil of value right now.

That's nearly $35mil of "meh", which is why I support Dubas moving as much junk out as he can before the TDL.

Those guys hold very little value, why would any of them be sought after?

 

[Ryder71]

I tend to agree…therefore trade Jake

Absolutely!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not even saying these were terrible moves in of themselves, or inappropriate at the time. We just need to get real with our expectations. We blew our assets on Brassard, Zucker and Kapanen. None of them are here and neither is anyone from their "trade tree." So instead of internal impact players, we get other teams spare top 6er or fringe 4-5 Damn they don't want to pay. You can't just keep doing this forever.

But probably will, until Sid retires. /shrug

 

[pistolpete11]

It's not even all that fast, tbh. It's amazing to me that people will say "we're a fast team" with an absolute straight face and not an ounce of shame.

Slow the game down, get physical. That's really the only way we can deal with aging stars. Maybe keep one speedy do nothing guy for Sid because he's into that, the freak.

I'll grant you that they aren't even particularly fast, but what if I tell you they are also small, soft, and can't finish? Does that get you interested?

But in all seriousness, I think they look(ed) at Rust, Zucker, Kapanen, maybe even Smith as guys that can skate. To be fair to JR, Kapanen is fast and was the right age, it's just that he kinda sucks.

But I agree, they should have built a bigger, more physical team. Thus me wanting guys like Miller and Tkachuk.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The point of this team bleeding futures for years being a big detriment is a good one. I would never contest that. More bingo balls if nothing else. It's especially frustrating because as pointed out most of these futures have been dealt for like... bland-ass buckets of wallpaper paste. Wet noodles. Non-factors. The roles this team has tried to fill with first round picks or whatever decent prospects they have at the time could likely have largely simply been filled internally... at least by any competent drafting/developing team.

Which I guess is where I'm meandering toward, here. I can't even get THAT stirred about losing out on all these shiny prospects, really. There's little guarantee the right guys would be drafted and/or ever get to play, anyhow.

This team called up a young scoring wing this year and even played him as a scoring wing for a time. He did pretty good! Now he toils on the third line in a role he isn't suited for because... reasons. Gotta have Colin White or Rakell up there instead I guess. This organization sucks at drafting and development. I don't miss too badly the things that were never likely to happen in the first place.