Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Honour Over Glory]

Gallant not being the hire for Ottawa was weird to me. He's a coach that squeezes the most out of a roster and I think a young team would endure him longer than a veteran team. I think him as a Pens Assistant would be a good choice only because of his style being someone that speak up and not worry about Sullivan and his experience vs his.

Also Gallant's philosophy as a coach put in charge of the forwards and offense would be exactly what this team needs. He pushes for players to play to their strengths and free flow to the offense. He really prioritizes the top 6 which would give Sully his grinders to get a hard on for while Gallant works with sorting out the top 6 and powerplay.

Reirden to me is just a soldier taking orders. I don't think he has much push back at all.

Gallant, Like Tocchet, is a players coach and understands how to get offense out of his team. Just do that much K12 Kyle.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

White Puustinen and Smith aren't the answer for L2 so it doesn't matter. We can cry Puustinen isn't getting his fair shake all we want but he's not very good. We need a legitimate winger to play with Geno.

I dont understand how you all get infatuated with these mid players......Zohorna/Puus shuould not be thoughts in our top 6.............let it gooooooooooooo

Puustinen actually is an answer for L2. White is at best a 13-14th forward for most teams if not lower. Smith and Puustinen with Geno could actually work quite well with the style of game all 3 play.

Puustinen has literally every metric, eye test, etc to back up being a top 6 winger. Ignorant wankers have some idiotic bias towards him for some bizarre reason. It's literally just ignorance. To have the P/60 and chemistry with Geno already as ample proof and that he's miscast as a third line winger, is a coach issue, not player.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Break in a coach? Every coach is gonna treat Sid exactly the same. He's been the face of the NHL for nearly 20 years and a franchise legend. Nobody's gonna have to be broken in, Sid's still gonna get the top wingers and be catered to.

Yeah I mean Sid is going to be the top C and if Jake is there, he'll have Jake. What is he worried about? A smarter coach will cut a few minutes off his shifts to keep him fresh for the playoffs and not wear him out at worst? Oh no!

This weird sense of loyalty they have to Sullivan is bizarre. Bylsma was a dipshit with his usage, not as bad as Sully which is weird to say now, but he didn't have a missed playoff and multiple first round exits in a row and somehow lost the room. Sullivan literally had rifts with players like Ian Cole, Malkin, and Kessel. Sullivan has damaged the roster more than Disco Dipshit ever did with his ignorance towards youth.

Yet some how Sid and Letang are reportedly just in love with him. I don't count Malkin. I feel like all Geno wants is to be with Sid and Letang as his mates and just tolerates Sullivan because of them.

 

[Andy99]

Why pay big money for Lindholm?? If you are going to sign a long term deal for big money might as well keep Jake. His numbers are way better and already works well with Sid. They are the same age and if Jake's contract won't work with the "rebuild" Lindholms will be just as bad or worse. They might as well look into Zegras he's young and fallen out of favor with the Ducks a bit.

I’m fine with giving Zegras a shot…I just don’t think Geno can play 2C full time any more and we don’t have a replacement…I’m fine if the replacement is Yager or someone young, cheap and offensively good…but if we’re spending a lot of money, I’d rather spend it on a top six center than a winger who’s 30+…

Sid and Sully, yeah I think it was reported that it's the only coach he and Letang want to play for until they retire. Real smooth brained shit like Watt and his Tomlin comment.

Like at best Dubas could have fired Reirden and Vellucci by now and replaced them with JD to run the D and hired maybe even Gallant as an assistant the rest of the season since he's a head strong coach as well but in a different capacity could be the Tocchet type for Sullivan.

To just not even do anything is bizarre. Blokes here shit themselves in excitement to dump on Hextall for being "Sleepy" and here we have a GM that rests on his laurels from the off season moves and the constant moving of goal posts.


As for Allvin, I was skeptical about him just aging out of his role and into an AGM role but was finally warming up to him and he bounced. I used to be high on Guerin and Fitzy as ex pens assistants that would be good Pens Gms but I'd probably want neither. Botterill would probably be the best choice of ex Pens AGms I'd consider as an option. Dubas made a big splash for Smith and Karlsson, two highly productive players on other teams that seemingly are struggling under Sullivan like clock work. And he is just, ok with it....

Yeah, I dont understand how the core can profess to really want another Cup and at the same time endorse Sullivan…those two things are at odds lol

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Yes:

Jake - Sid - Geno
Smith - Lindholm - Rakell



8.5mil x 6 years is a good starting point for Jake. I imagine it goes to 8 years and between 8.5-9mil to finalize though. Give him the extra year to lower the cap hit. 3 or 4 year full NMC and something like a 10 team trade list for the last part when the team goes to rebuild mode.

I'm on board the Lindholm train, including extending him, but I'd rather trade Rakell and Smith.

If you could somehow leverage one of those two to get Lindholm and to pry Frank Vatrano away from Anaheim, I like the potential, especially if you can hit on a couple youngsters.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Malkin - Lindholm - Vatrano
Poulin - Eller - Puustinen
DOC - Acciari - Puljujarvi

 

[Andy99]

Apparently TIOPS is reporting that it’s 50-50 whether Dubas will do a mini retool at the deadline, according to NHL sources, but apparently FSG seems to want to push off any retool until the summer, which I guess means no trade of Jake…this is really hard-hitting journalism, folks ….I can’t believe people subscribe to that site lol

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Yeah, I dont understand how the core can profess to really want another Cup and at the same time endorse Sullivan…those two things are at odds lol

Easy - comfort level. Known quantity. They like how he manages them. Preferred style of play.

We're fixated on results. Players want results, but they also want to be comfortable in a system and in the locker room, and they're not always willing to give that up because success isn't guaranteed with a change.

 

[Fordy]

Apparently TIOPS is reporting that it’s 50-50 whether Dubas will do a mini retool at the deadline, according to NHL sources, but apparently FSG seems to want to push off any retool until the summer, which I guess means no trade of Jake…this is really hard-hitting journalism, folks ….I can’t believe people subscribe to that site lol

it's hard to say. deadline maybe, offseason, i dunno. on the other hand, anything's possible

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Puustinen actually is an answer for L2. White is at best a 13-14th forward for most teams if not lower. Smith and Puustinen with Geno could actually work quite well with the style of game all 3 play.

Puustinen has literally every metric, eye test, etc to back up being a top 6 winger. Ignorant wankers have some idiotic bias towards him for some bizarre reason. It's literally just ignorance. To have the P/60 and chemistry with Geno already as ample proof and that he's miscast as a third line winger, is a coach issue, not player.

C'mon bloke. Puustinens 1 goal and 7 assists in 21 games is just screaming. I'm a top six player being held back. You must be smoking some good stuff across the pond.

Continue to hold on to the hope just like Zohorna.

Smith or Puustinen should not be top six staples on your roster.

 

[Come on]

I’m fine with giving Zegras a shot…I just don’t think Geno can play 2C full time any more and we don’t have a replacement…I’m fine if the replacement is Yager or someone young, cheap and offensively good…but if we’re spending a lot of money, I’d rather spend it on a top six center than a winger who’s 30+…


Yeah, I dont understand how the core can profess to really want another Cup and at the same time endorse Sullivan…those two things are at odds lol

Agreed but, I dont want a 30+ center that only produces half what Jake does. Reinhart but, he may go for more than Lindholm and he is only a year younger

 

[Nakawick]

Yes:

Jake - Sid - Geno
Smith - Lindholm - Rakell



8.5mil x 6 years is a good starting point for Jake. I imagine it goes to 8 years and between 8.5-9mil to finalize though. Give him the extra year to lower the cap hit. 3 or 4 year full NMC and something like a 10 team trade list for the last part when the team goes to rebuild mode.

How has Lindholm been this year? Is he having a down year?

 

[Zirakzigil]

How has Lindholm been this year? Is he having a down year?

Bit of a down hear. Having a hard time chemistry with any line mates. Been better of late.

 

[Pancakes]

Powerplay issue to most if not all of us is the choice of who Sullivan wants out there. He has always been obvious about pandering to Sid and his Super friends. I really wish they just moved on from POJ and called up Ty Smith and had him run the powerplay with Puustinen, Crosby, Guentzel, and Pettersson. I like POJ but it's clear this coach has never really warmed up to him. He basically plays him to find an excuse to play Ludvig or someone else.

I think POJ could bring back a young change of scenery type as well, for forward. Reilly Smith I wish Dubas could trade him back to VGK but their cap is a mess and it's why he was available to begin with. Unless there's a move there to be made where VGK is loaded with Centers and wants Smith back.

I know it sounds crazy but I'd love to see Geno try to work down low in Sid's traditional spot and let Sid work the half wall instead. Then yeah let Puustinen work in Kessel's old spot in a one-timer slot. EK top of the umbrella. Jake can work net front.

I think Geno has the ability to work down low and with him having lost a step it might be a safer spot for him in terms of not having to worry about turnovers up top. And his playmaking and hands would still be an asset down there.

Idk, something to consider. It'd be a different look anyhow.

But Sully and co are like HMM what if we tried the same thing for the 1000th time in a row? Surely it will work this time!

 

[Victor Z]

Apparently TIOPS is reporting that it’s 50-50 whether Dubas will do a mini retool at the deadline, according to NHL sources, but apparently FSG seems to want to push off any retool until the summer, which I guess means no trade of Jake…this is really hard-hitting journalism, folks ….I can’t believe people subscribe to that site lol

50-50 my ass. We could lose every game between now and then and Dubie/FSG would still be too scared to fire the worst coach in hockey and his assistants, much less blow up the team.

The only possible thing which would spur them to action -- not necessarily SMART action, just action for the sake of appearing to "do something!" -- would be a lot of empty seats @ PPG like we saw late last season. By the time that happens, the deadline will have passed unless the Pens really do go 0-for-February.

FSG will play it super-safe and give Jake whatever he wants. If it somehow doesn't happen that way, FSG surely views losing Jake for nothing after the season as a LESS risky option than trading him at the deadline. Because trading him means we're totally giving up on the season (or so some would believe) and then..... heeeeere come those empty seats.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

https://x.com/friedgehnic/status/1752852000792797404?s=46

Speaking of Lindholm. Also think this takes Vancouver out of the Guentzel sweepstakes.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I know it sounds crazy but I'd love to see Geno try to work down low in Sid's traditional spot and let Sid work the half wall instead. Then yeah let Puustinen work in Kessel's old spot in a one-timer slot. EK top of the umbrella. Jake can work net front.

I think Geno has the ability to work down low and with him having lost a step it might be a safer spot for him in terms of not having to worry about turnovers up top. And his playmaking and hands would still be an asset down there.

Idk, something to consider. It'd be a different look anyhow.

But Sully and co are like HMM what if we tried the same thing for the 1000th time in a row? Surely it will work this time!

I'm willing to try this. But I would also drop Karlsson for Letang on PP1 and maybe even off PP2. Karlsson sucks as a PPQB.

 

[Andy99]

https://x.com/friedgehnic/status/1752852000792797404?s=46

Speaking of Lindholm. Also think this takes Vancouver out of the Guentzel sweepstakes.

Calgary = 5 points out of a playoff spot
Pens = 5 points out of a playoff spot

someone got the memo and someone didn’t lol…neither team is a contender if they make it…Pens will be the dumbest organization in mankind if they let Jake take his decision on re-signing here to the off-season and don’t trade him..

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Calgary = 5 points out of a playoff spot
Pens = 5 points out of a playoff spot

someone got the memo and someone didn’t lol…neither team is a contender if they make it…Pens will be the dumbest organization in mankind if they let Jake take his decision on re-signing here to the off-season and don’t trade him..

Absolutely. The Pens have five weeks to sign him to an extension or trade him. There is no third option.

 

[66-30-33]

Imagine keeping Jake and losing him in offseason and we don’t make playoffs? LMAO!

 

[Andy99]

Absolutely. The Pens have five weeks to sign him to an extension or trade him. There is no third option.

Pens and their fans are delusional is the problem…”yeah we can make it”, “what is it telling Sid if we trade him”…it’s telling Sid that there’s a very lucid organization behind him that’s prioritizing being in a better position to win in the near future…andif they re-sign Jake, they better tank hard soon lol…he’ll be propping up the next X Gen group

 

[Grouch]

I'm on board the Lindholm train, including extending him, but I'd rather trade Rakell and Smith.

If you could somehow leverage one of those two to get Lindholm and to pry Frank Vatrano away from Anaheim, I like the potential, especially if you can hit on a couple youngsters.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Malkin - Lindholm - Vatrano
Poulin - Eller - Puustinen
DOC - Acciari - Puljujarvi

That dream lasted all of 2 1/2 hours

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm on board the Lindholm train, including extending him, but I'd rather trade Rakell and Smith.

If you could somehow leverage one of those two to get Lindholm and to pry Frank Vatrano away from Anaheim, I like the potential, especially if you can hit on a couple youngsters.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
Malkin - Lindholm - Vatrano
Poulin - Eller - Puustinen
DOC - Acciari - Puljujarvi

I don’t see Vatrano being sold for anything less than an overpayment for a player like him and his contract. Lindholm? Lol, pipe dream. This team doesn’t have the assets to land either I think.

I mean I like where everyone’s head is at with the roster though with Lindholm and moving Malkin to LW. I would put Puustinen on that RW to be honest and Puljujarvi on the 3rd line RW. Then recall Hinostroza for the 4th line RW job. Doc can actually play decent RW as well from the few times I’ve seen him on that role, he actually uses the off wing shot to his advantage and when he drives the net he has the back hand protection. Poulin and DOC can also play C so there’s that flexibility as well.

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Malkin, Lindholm, Puustinen
Poulin, Ellen, Puljujarvi/DOC
DOC, Acciari, Hinostroza

To land Lindholm though? This team can’t afford to dump another 1st rounder, you’d basically have to offer the Flames Pickering I guess, with the conditional pick attached if Lindholm doesn’t sign, but then you don’t make that move at all unless Jake is re-signed either as the cap space will disappear quickly.

Then there’s the fact that in the last 17 games since Rakell has been back, he’s put up 14pts, Rust has 6pts in 11 games or something along those lines in that same span. I would probably prioritize moving Rust out between Rakell and Rust, just to force Sullivan into better choices. I like Rust, but I think he returns more for this team.

Whatever you get for Rust, you can use towards landing Lindholm and then moving Smith doesn’t seem that bad for whatever you get back. I wish Sullivan wasn’t such a f***ing idiot and use Ty Smith so we can see where his game is at for the NHL and then you have POJ as a trade chip or even Ty Smith, really.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don’t see Vatrano being sold for anything less than an overpayment for a player like him and his contract. Lindholm? Lol, pipe dream. This team doesn’t have the assets to land either I think.

You'd certainly be buying high on Vatrano. We'll see about Lindholm.

Regardless of whether it's through the deadline or in the offseason, I think reworking the top six to push Malkin to wing on the second line is the best approach.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also, it’s a bold move to make these moves and have the same coaches there making the same mistakes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Gonna be interesting to see how Lindholm does in Vancouver, if he ends up there. I'm not too worried about knocking Vancouver off the list of places to deal Jake--teams will line up around the block and Dubas will have his pick of insane returns if he decides to move him. Zero doubt of that, but I think Dubas and the org just caves and re-signs him anyway.