Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[AuroraBorealis]

But who am I kidding. Jake will not be traded they are happy with status quo

I think they would if they started losing hard out of the break. 14 games still until the TDL. A lot of damage to playoff hopes can still be done in time. But the L's need to start pretty quick for sure. Maybe starting with Winnipeg on 2/6?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think they would if they started losing hard out of the break. 14 games still until the TDL. A lot of damage to playoff hopes can still be done in time. But the L's need to start pretty quick for sure. Maybe starting with Winnipeg on 2/6?

I don't think they will move Jake at all whether they spiral out or not. Crosby is his biggest cheerleader on the team, I would be very shocked if he is dealt.

 

[pistolpete11]

Thinking back on this for a bit, my big beef with Dubas being patient isn't the waiting, it's the fact that the team seems to be in denial about what exactly their problems are. I don't expect Dubas to come out and say "hey, this roster is terrible lol, gimme better players, thanks1", but given the lack of urgency the team has shown when dealing with a historically bad PP and falling out of the playoff race, I'm not sure I have confidence in them properly identifying the problems this team faces.

If we had seen more evidence of trying to solve the problems this team faces by reconfiguring the power play or reworking the system, I'd be more willing to give the FO (and the coaching staff, incidentally) some leeway.

I'm not sure why that falls on the FO. There's only 2 things that Dubas can do to fix the PP.

1. Fire the coach
2. Make a trade

I agree with #1, but #2 is exactly what I was talking about. To get a player that is quality enough to help the PP would be saying they are all in. I don't know that they should be doing that. So in that regard, I agree with Dubas saying "They've got to figure it out or else we are going to sell."

 

[3ladesof5teel]

This team is a Powerplay away from being at the top of the Metro and we are wanting the team to lose so we can "start the rebuild". This shit is hilarious.

I get it that the way this team plays is tough to watch at times but to want the team to lose to start a process that is basically a coin flip that in 6-7 years if lucky MIGHT fight to make the playoffs again (which I remind you it is doing now) seems pretty asinine to me.

Trim some fat if you can, make the adjustments on the Powerplay. I love the idea of Geno down low on the right and get it fixed. There are much more difficult things on a team to fix than a Powerplay in the NHL. It shouldn't be this difficult. Send Smith out to a team as some "veteran leadership" find some middle 6 depth

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not sure why that falls on the FO. There's only 2 things that Dubas can do to fix the PP.

1. Fire the coach
2. Make a trade

I agree with #1, but #2 is exactly what I was talking about. To get a player that is quality enough to help the PP would be saying they are all in. I don't know that they should be doing that. So in that regard, I agree with Dubas saying "They've got to figure it out or else we are going to sell."

I guess I think the FO should be putting pressure on the coaching staff to fix obvious problems. I mean, I know patience is a virtue, etc., but we're over the halfway mark, about a month until the TDL, and our power play is literally at an all-time low, historically speaking. It's not a slump, it's not a hiccup, it's actually the worst powerplay a Penguins team has ever iced in terms of converting.

But we're not changing it, besides real token changes that last a game or two. At some point, management has to do some managing, I guess?

To futher clarify, I'm not really very much afraid of Dubas making some crazy-ass JR trade for a need we don't need to satisfy. I'm worried about the coaching staff actually using anyone we need in an effective way.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To futher clarify, I'm not really very much afraid of Dubas making some crazy-ass JR trade for a need we don't need to satisfy. I'm worried about the coaching staff actually using anyone we need in an effective way.

Yeah this is why it's tough to get too excited.

They literally went out and got the reigning Norris winner who scored 100+ last year and is known to be able to run at the very least a COMPETENT powerplay. And he's made no dent in their offensive ineptitude and looks like a utter spaz on the powerplay.

But I'm sure he just doesn't play the right way or something. And Todd Reirden is just such a huge feather in this team's cap that he can't be held accountable.

 

[deakka]

This team is a Powerplay away from being at the top of the Metro and we are wanting the team to lose so we can "start the rebuild". This shit is hilarious.

I get it that the way this team plays is tough to watch at times but to want the team to lose to start a process that is basically a coin flip that in 6-7 years if lucky MIGHT fight to make the playoffs again (which I remind you it is doing now) seems pretty asinine to me.

Trim some fat if you can, make the adjustments on the Powerplay. I love the idea of Geno down low on the right and get it fixed. There are much more difficult things on a team to fix than a Powerplay in the NHL. It shouldn't be this difficult. Send Smith out to a team for some "veteran leadership" find some middle 6 depth

Everyone is "something" away from being good. Be it better goaltending, better offense or whatever.

Question is, will our PP be able tourn it around?
And if it does. Can Sid keep playing on this almost unsutainable level until then?

 

[pistolpete11]

I guess I think the FO should be putting pressure on the coaching staff to fix obvious problems. I mean, I know patience is a virtue, etc., but we're over the halfway mark, about a month until the TDL, and our power play is literally at an all-time low, historically speaking. It's not a slump, it's not a hiccup, it's actually the worst powerplay a Penguins team has ever iced in terms of converting.

But we're not changing it, besides real token changes that last a game or two. At some point, management has to do some managing, I guess?

To futher clarify, I'm not really very much afraid of Dubas making some crazy-ass JR trade for a need we don't need to satisfy. I'm worried about the coaching staff actually using anyone we need in an effective way.

If a coaching staff needs to be told they need to fix the 31st PP, it's time to get a new coaching staff.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If a coaching staff needs to be told they need to fix the 31st PP, it's time to get a new coaching staff.

Well, yeah. But we're making no moves to do so, hence my question as to what the FO is doing.

Don't get me wrong, Pete, I get where you're coming from and I largely agree with it. I just am skeptical that Dubas and FSG have either the vision or the courage to do it.

 

[pistolpete11]

Well, yeah. But we're making no moves to do so, hence my question as to what the FO is doing.

Don't get me wrong, Pete, I get where you're coming from and I largely agree with it. I just am skeptical that Dubas and FSG have either the vision or the courage to do it.

I haven't understood what the last 3 GMs have been doing with the coaching staff, but my initial post was about buying vs. selling, particularly in regards to Jake, and when to do so.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I think they would if they started losing hard out of the break. 14 games still until the TDL. A lot of damage to playoff hopes can still be done in time. But the L's need to start pretty quick for sure. Maybe starting with Winnipeg on 2/6?

You know that isn't going to happen. Considering there are teams losing along with us, we'll likely be keeping pace. I don't think in any situation this is going to be an easy call for Dubas.

I'm not sure why that falls on the FO. There's only 2 things that Dubas can do to fix the PP.

1. Fire the coach
2. Make a trade

I agree with #1, but #2 is exactly what I was talking about. To get a player that is quality enough to help the PP would be saying they are all in. I don't know that they should be doing that. So in that regard, I agree with Dubas saying "They've got to figure it out or else we are going to sell."

3. Hire a dedicated PP coach. That an easy minimum they could.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Everyone is "something" away from being good. Be it better goaltending, better offense or whatever.

Question is, will our PP be able tourn it around?
And if it does. Can Sid keep playing on this almost unsutainable level until then?

To answer your Sid question I have no doubts about Sid. He has continually over the course of his career been a stud..... injuries aside.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I haven't understood what the last 3 GMs have been doing with the coaching staff, but my initial post was about buying vs. selling, particularly in regards to Jake, and when to do so.

I know, I'm just saying, I see it as part of the package. Trading for assets is fine, but trading to bring back a roster player is a waste unless coaching staff can use that player well. EK65 is probably the shining example of this, but this team doesn't have time to remake players into roles they're not or to make them adapt on the fly, like we're doing with the reigning Norris Trophy winner.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If after the all star break we lose games. I think we sell Jake.

Damn I don't want to sell him. I want to make the playoffs. The mismanagement was unreal the past couple years.

I still can't believe we took a guy Karlsson and sucked his talents out of him.
If he had different numbers on him and you showed his first month here and then afterwards you wouldn't realize they are the same player.

Coaching staff needs to go.

 

[molon labe]

Trade Jake or not (it really is fine either way barring the contract) - if we don't bring in another top 6 scoring threat (ideally a 2C) and start moving some of this dead weight out.....I'll be thoroughly disappointed.

Zero reason you can't flip Smith. He's got a year left on his deal and should find utility on a number of teams not the Pens. Rakell would be harder. Rust would require waiving. Graves...yeah probably not. But maybe?

You need new blood in the lineup. Desperately. Start thinking to next year when Carter is finally gone - and the team still looks the same and shit. No reason you don't start now. This whole All Star break and then waiting and waiting and waiting is crazy. Unless it's 4D chess by Dubas waiting until they miss the playoffs so he can justify to the FO to fire Sully?

 

[Andy99]

I don't think they will move Jake at all whether they spiral out or not. Crosby is his biggest cheerleader on the team, I would be very shocked if he is dealt.

Yohe’s article today basically screams: “We’re desperate to sign Jake and we’ll likely overpay” to his agent lol…this organization is so predictable…status quo and let’s all make Sid comfortable so we can wallow in mediocrity…I actually think the Canucks moved onto Lindholm bc Dubas told them we’ll be resigning him for 8 years…

“That chemistry is something Dubas recognizes, per Yohe, and plays into his desire to keep the winger with the Penguins long-term. Yohe cites a rising salary cap and “keeping [Crosby] with his preferred left wing for the rest of his career” as primary reasons why Dubas is amicable to an extension that will likely take Guentzel into his mid-30s.

Crosby’s desire to remain on a line with Guentzel won’t be enough for Dubas to lose out on recouping value in a deadline deal, however. Sources have told Yohe that Dubas “isn’t afraid to trade Guentzel, even if Crosby and [head coach Mike] Sullivan would prefer to keep him employed in Pittsburgh.”

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Would you do a POJ for Arber Xhekaj trade?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Yohe’s article today basically screams: “We’re desperate to sign Jake and we’ll likely overpay” to his agent lol…this organization is so predictable…status quo and let’s all make Sid comfortable so we can wallow in mediocrity…I actually think the Canucks moved onto Lindholm bc Dubas told them we’ll be resigning him for 8 years…

“That chemistry is something Dubas recognizes, per Yohe, and plays into his desire to keep the winger with the Penguins long-term. Yohe cites a rising salary cap and “keeping [Crosby] with his preferred left wing for the rest of his career” as primary reasons why Dubas is amicable to an extension that will likely take Guentzel into his mid-30s.

Crosby’s desire to remain on a line with Guentzel won’t be enough for Dubas to lose out on recouping value in a deadline deal, however. Sources have told Yohe that Dubas “isn’t afraid to trade Guentzel, even if Crosby and [head coach Mike] Sullivan would prefer to keep him employed in Pittsburgh.”

I read the article and I didn’t take away that we’ll do anything to re-sign him at all. I took it as…Dubas knows how important Guentzel is to Sid but Guentzel’s gonna have to take a team friendly deal or they’re trading him.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Would you do a POJ for Arber Xhekaj trade?

I would ....too many players camp out in front of our net, I think WI-Fi helps with that and gives us a different element on the backend. He's tough and we need some toughness

 

[Andy99]

I read the article and I didn’t take away that we’ll do anything to re-sign him at all. I took it as…Dubas knows how important Guentzel is to Sid but Guentzel’s gonna have to take a team friendly deal or they’re trading him.

It sounded to me like a coded message to Jake’s agent, just like the agent came out in the press and said they were waiting to sign until the off-season…you don’t say this unless you’re trying to sign the player and seeing Dubas’ history signing the TOR core, he’s going to overpay…guarantee Jake will be signed for at least 7 years and between $8.5-9 M lol

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Trade Jake or not (it really is fine either way barring the contract) - if we don't bring in another top 6 scoring threat (ideally a 2C) and start moving some of this dead weight out.....I'll be thoroughly disappointed.

Zero reason you can't flip Smith. He's got a year left on his deal and should find utility on a number of teams not the Pens. Rakell would be harder. Rust would require waiving. Graves...yeah probably not. But maybe?

You need new blood in the lineup. Desperately. Start thinking to next year when Carter is finally gone - and the team still looks the same and shit. No reason you don't start now. This whole All Star break and then waiting and waiting and waiting is crazy. Unless it's 4D chess by Dubas waiting until they miss the playoffs so he can justify to the FO to fire Sully?

We need picks, not average to below average current NHL youth. Those guys aren't gonna prevent playoff misses or R1 exits.
There's no escaping what needs to be done. Best to just get on with it, instead of constantly messing around with a hopeless situation. They're not gonna win the Cup this way.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Would you do a POJ for Arber Xhekaj trade?

Absolutely.

Xhekaj would never see the ice on this team though.

I would ....too many players camp out in front of our net, I think WI-Fi helps with that and gives us a different element on the backend. He's tough and we need some toughness

Exactly, but I don't think Sullivan would even consider putting him on the lineup card. He'd be down in WB/S before the transfer call was finalized.

 

[Turin]

Idk how anybody sees that deal and thinks a Guentzel trade would be worth it. If you need to rebuild in a couple years and want to trade Guentzel they could probably just get a similar package then.

 

[Andy99]

Idk how anybody sees that deal and thinks a Guentzel trade would be worth it. If you need to rebuild in a couple years and want to trade Guentzel they could probably just get a similar package then.

Yeah I don’t think that deal is good enough either but Jake is also a better player than Lindholm, better season and better playoff performer…we should get a top prospect, player back and a first…VAN didn’t give any of their top three prospects back…however you can’t let Jake walk away for nothing so if you can’t sign him before the deadline then take the best deal

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Vancouver must truly be stacked if a guy near the top of the league in OHL scoring as a defenseman doesn't rate as one of their top three prospects.