Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Zirakzigil]

Matthew Tkachuk was the only sign & trade I can think of in the NHL. @EVGENIMERLIN

This is where the Penguins can utilize this as well if they need to with a team that wants to sign Jake to an 8yr deal, but Tkachuk was an RFA at the end of the season that year so Jake's situation is different.




I'd rather they just got Dorofeyev instead of Brisson in that deal.

As much as I despise Sullivan, I think with how things are going, he might actually use Dorofeyev properly by accident. I like Pavel, slippery player that is also a bit of a best, isn't afraid to play in the dirty areas and is solid on the powerplay. Lethal shot too.

It was confirmed by the NHL that that signing was the first sign and trade in league history. Tkachuk had to sign the deal with the Flames and have it registered before the trade went through. All the terms and conditions were negotiated through the Flames.

 

[vodeni]

Malkin is my favorite player, so this is hard to type, but I'm wondering if part of the reason he's off of the first unit is because of how bad he's been on zone entries. It's been brutal.

totally disagree...he is not tasked with zone entires anymore, he takes over only when others screw up royally, when you have 4 skaters standing on the wall without any jump, its hard for anyone to do it, Geno and Sid are still by a mile our best zone entry guys not even close...

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I just want to say, I like most of the proposals. And some decent discussion as well.

 

[Freeptop]

Assuming the Pens do end up acknowledging reality and end up selling, as someone else mentioned earlier, the Pens could potentially end up in a place where they could take on expiring contracts, either as part of a return for a player, or even acting as the third team in a trade to facilitate another one. This would be especially true if Rust ends up on LTIR and Guentzel gets traded.

So who all could the Pens potentially take on? One team I think the Pens could target for something like this would be the Bruins. They're said to be looking to add on defense, and meanwhile, they're currently scratching Forbort and his 3M salary. Forbort will be a UFA this summer, so if the Pens are selling anyway, they ought to be able to take on his deal one way or another, and get some picks and/or prospects for doing so. Then the Pens could just let Forbort walk in the offseason. If the Pens could take on half the cap hit of whomever was going back to the Bruins (assuming they're a pure rental), then the Pens could potentially get some decent pieces out of such a deal.

Any other teams/players that could be targeted for this?
(Yes, I realize it's probably not all that likely to happen, but it makes for something a little different to talk about around here, at least).

 

[deakka]

I wonder how much if a problem the NTC list will even be?
Sure if Jake term left it might matter more. But if a team who will make the playoffs are om his list it's not at all unthinkable that he waives. a few months at a place he might not wanna be for a chance at a playoff run and a cup?

I think he can endure. Then sign wherever he wants this summer anyway

 

[Andy99]

totally disagree...he is not tasked with zone entires anymore, he takes over only when others screw up royally, when you have 4 skaters standing on the wall without any jump, its hard for anyone to do it, Geno and Sid are still by a mile our best zone entry guys not even close...

Yeah, the reason Malkin is off PP1 is that he doesn’t f**king shoot anymore…idk if that’s a confidence thing or he just doesn’t have due to age or injury…I’m going for the latter…I checked Ovi’s stats last night and he had zero shots on goal too…I mean if you’ve slowed down enough that you cant get your body quickly in position to find a lane to shoot before it closes up, you’re not going to be great on the PP either

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I hope the owners go after the NMC/NTCs in the next round of bargaining. They’ve really taken a lot of fun out of the TDLs and can be pretty depressing for a fan base. They make enough money. Winnipeg can’t be that bad when you have 7-8 figures sitting in your bank account. It’s not like those contracts are forever.

I agree with this.

I would change the rules about it. Maybe have it based on performance.

Top 5 in art Ross race
Hart winner
Norris / Top 3
Vezina Top 3.
Pearson
Selke Top 3

Have it so you have to be a UFA to sign for it and be among the top.

the amount of NTCs being handed out league wide is too damn high.

 

[chethejet]

Geno is sliding and no question he has to adjust to things. My issue is the Hextall go for it 3 year plan. pens miss the playoffs and clearly some changes. I have to think keeping the pick if top 10 or higher with the lottery and if Jake is moved for first round pick and higher end prospect starts the rebuild. I t will take 2 years to move Rust, Karlsson after next year for picks and or prospects to build up the younger talent in the system. Sid is better served with younger legs and Dubas has to get his vision of what he wants to be the law of the land. Sullivan has to adapt or he has to go. The PP this year is a joke and no GM should allow that. Dubas will have cap space which helps the next 2 years to add a winger or 2 that fits the size, grit and compete level needed.

 

[SEALBound]

Just for discussion sake:

“Barry Trotz asked for Dawson Mercer, Seamus Casey, Akira Schmid, the Devils 2024 first-round pick, and the Devils 2025 2nd pick for Alexandre Carrier, Juuse Saros, with the Predators retaining 50 percent on Carrier,” a source told Full Press Hockey.

Hey NJ! We'll do Jarry for Mercer and Schmid.

 

[Jacob]

Ya’ll think we could get a 2nd for Nedeljkovic? Or equivalent prospect.

Maybe Behrens from Colorado.

 

[vodeni]

Yeah, the reason Malkin is off PP1 is that he doesn’t f**king shoot anymore…idk if that’s a confidence thing or he just doesn’t have due to age or injury…I’m going for the latter…I checked Ovi’s stats last night and he had zero shots on goal too…I mean if you’ve slowed down enough that you cant get your body quickly in position to find a lane to shoot before it closes up, you’re not going to be great on the PP either

shoot from where? he does not see the puck, the PKs are pressuring them high, the book on them is they can't move the puck fast to collapse the PK, also he is now most of the time hugging the goal post and taking himself out of game, if he is getting set up on the right wall for a onetimer and he is not shooting or something I would understand...

 

[Sideline]

Ya’ll think we could get a 2nd for Nedeljkovic? Or equivalent prospect.

Maybe Behrens from Colorado.

Hard to say as there aren't a ton of goalie deadline trades to reference as comparables. MAF was pretty washed in 2022 and brought back a 2nd, but he's also a name guy that was still very good in 2021.

I wouldn't give Ned away just to give him away, but if there's a 2nd out there for him I'd take it.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The league is super desperate for any half decent goaltending right now. Good chance we get priced out of re-signing Ned. I'd take anything we can get for him at the deadline.

 

[vyktor]

I hope the owners go after the NMC/NTCs in the next round of bargaining. They’ve really taken a lot of fun out of the TDLs and can be pretty depressing for a fan base. They make enough money. Winnipeg can’t be that bad when you have 7-8 figures sitting in your bank account. It’s not like those contracts are forever.

What they need to do is what the NBA does with the NTC. Essentially make it so it's only after an x amount of years in the NHL. In the NBA, the rule is this:



This would put an end to a lot of UFA's and RFA's getting NTC/NMC's.

I agree with this.

I would change the rules about it. Maybe have it based on performance.

Top 5 in art Ross race
Hart winner
Norris / Top 3
Vezina Top 3.
Pearson
Selke Top 3

Have it so you have to be a UFA to sign for it and be among the top.

the amount of NTCs being handed out league wide is too damn high.

What do you think ownership can/will offer the players to get these changes to the NTC's cause players really seem to like them.

 

[Jacob]

The league is super desperate for any half decent goaltending right now. Good chance we get priced out of re-signing him. I'd take anything we can get for him at the deadline.

To me we might be better off signing the next Nedeljkovic this summer, like get Samsonov or Kahkonen on another cheap 1 year deal.

Pretty good situation here for goalies... Easy workload and no insane media pressure like Toronto but we're also not total garbage like San Jose (or Detroit the past couple seasons).

 

[Gurglesons]

To me we might be better off signing the next Nedeljkovic this summer, like get Samsonov or Kahkonen on another cheap 1 year deal.

Pretty good situation here for goalies... Easy workload and no insane media pressure like Toronto but we're also not total garbage like San Jose (or Detroit the past couple seasons).

Lankinen or Kahkonen is who I’d target.

 

[SEALBound]

The league is super desperate for any half decent goaltending right now. Good chance we get priced out of re-signing Ned. I'd take anything we can get for him at the deadline.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I tend to lean towards the "old days of goalie values being low" being gone. The average talent of goalies is most certainly going down overall. The number of truly elite starters is quickly dwindling and teams aren't giving them up.

I think it's VERY fair for Saros to be returning a 1st+quality prospect or player, especially to a team like New Jersey who desperately needs it. Carolina is another that needs it badly and has the young players to give up (this assume Necas is the player they would be giving up).

Right now, it's Markstom and Saros that are available and they both have Jarry like performances and contracts. If Dubas is serious about a retool, he should be in discussions with teams wanting the upgrade.

Even thought they are a division rival, New Jersey and the Penguins make very good trading partners considering haves and needs. Penguins need a young stud forward and draft capital. New Jersey has Mercer and Holtz and a bunch of picks. They need goaltending and a solid LD...which we have.

Lankinen or Kahkonen is who I’d target.

Neds out at the TDL and signing Kahkonen makes a lot of sense. I assume if they send out Saros, Nashville keeps Lankine (read: re-signs him) and runs him with Askarov.

That said, looking at Askarov and Murashov's KHL numbers...fairly similar. Which is a good thing.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah every single one just looks like crap. I don't think Dubas is going to make a move, there needs to be a team that is desperate enough and for that to happen, a few of the teams need to start making moves which prompts other teams to get desperate.

There's also a part of me that wonders if Sid doesn't hulk this team into a winning streak by the deadline lol. I mean, he's got that twinkle in his eye right now. I wouldn't put it past him.

 

[Andy99]

Jake to Seattle for Matty Berniers and Sale/Firkus…no it didn’t happen…it just should lol

 

[KrisLetAngry]

What do you think ownership can/will offer the players to get these changes to the NTC's cause players really seem to like them.

Honestly Vyktor really good question.

I am pro players but i also want to bring contract length down to 5/6 years over 7/8.

Maybe the option of a soft cap? Gary would never allow this but I'd be interested in it.

Soft cap = 10% over the cap. Every 1 dollar spent above (not including LTIR) is 2 dollars put into revenue sharing.

 

[MeinerEiner]

https://x.com/frank_seravalli/status/1762545615941112303?s=20

I think there’s definitely a market for Jarry/Ned

 

[Malkinstheman]

If you get a first or a player like Mercer/Necas for Jarry, you take that and f***ing run. Dubas has to keep up the facade of "contending" but it really seems like it's going to be a sellers market.

 

[Jacob]

https://x.com/frank_seravalli/status/1762545615941112303?s=20

I think there’s definitely a market for Jarry/Ned

Yeah for Ned there's going to be a market amongst teams going for it but aren't getting good goaltending and also don't have the cap space for a Saros, like Colorado, TB and Carolina. Maybe Dallas.

 

[Sideline]

Honestly Vyktor really good question.

I am pro players but i also want to bring contract length down to 5/6 years over 7/8.

Maybe the option of a soft cap? Gary would never allow this but I'd be interested in it.

Soft cap = 10% over the cap. Every 1 dollar spent above (not including LTIR) is 2 dollars put into revenue sharing.

The owners will never give up the hard cap. I could see them giving earlier free agency, arbitration immediately after ELCs, or shorter ELCs to kill no movement clauses, but the revenue split and hard cap is never changing to the players benefit.

 

[Freeptop]

I hope the owners go after the NMC/NTCs in the next round of bargaining. They’ve really taken a lot of fun out of the TDLs and can be pretty depressing for a fan base. They make enough money. Winnipeg can’t be that bad when you have 7-8 figures sitting in your bank account. It’s not like those contracts are forever.

The owners have no motivation for going after NMC/NTCs, as those clauses convince the players to accept lower salaries in return for them. From the owners' point of view, that reduces their costs, and in the end, it's pretty rare that a contract with one can't be moved at all, if the team really wants to move that player. Owners don't care nearly as much as fans or even GMs do if the return in terms of picks and prospects is lower thanks to one of those clauses. They definitely care that a top player was willing to take 1-2M less per year in order to get one of those clauses, though.