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Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

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You don't play Puustinen with Malkin because you think Puustinen is top-6 caliber. You play Puustinen with Malkin if you can acquire a bona fide top line LW to play as the other winger on that line, because Puustinen can likely be carried into sufficient enough production if you put an elite LWer opposite of him.

It's the same logic as running with Guentzel-Crosby-Simon back in the day. It's not "Simon is top line caliber", it's "Simon can be carried into effective results while playing with the other two".
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Which is bonkers, cuz all he has to do is stand there and fire off one-timers, and at this stage, that's easily the biggest contribution he can make to the team. :laugh: Idiocy.
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Well they keep trying to stick him on the point which he should have NEVER been doing from the very beginning and now doubly so that he's old and his footspeed/recovery is ratcheted back like two notches. Yet that's just about all they'll try and then try to act shocked when it doesn't work. Shit man just stick him somewhere down low so he can use his hands/brain. You telling me that Lars Eller, Raks, Rust or the Shirefolk they tried there last week are gonna be better than him there even at this stage of his career? Come the f*** on.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt said:
Well they keep trying to stick him on the point which he should have NEVER been doing from the very beginning and now doubly so that he's old and his footspeed/recovery is ratcheted back like two notches. Yet that's just about all they'll try and then try to act shocked when it doesn't work. Shit man just stick him somewhere down low so he can use his hands/brain. You telling me that Lars Eller, Raks, Rust or the Shirefolk they tried there last week are gonna be better than him there even at this stage of his career? Come the f*** on.
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Malkin is my favorite player, so this is hard to type, but I'm wondering if part of the reason he's off of the first unit is because of how bad he's been on zone entries. It's been brutal.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Yeah, we'll just have to see what happens. It's a no-brainer to get a haul for Jake this TDL to me, regardless of what direction you wanna take moving forward. I still have next to no confidence this team does it though, they can't even make the no-brainer decision to fire a coach half a decade into miserable performances and a steady, steep decline. :laugh:

-edit- I also think hanging on to Jake moving forward is a mistake. I think a lot of his production is empty calories and he doesn't do anything to really help or make his center better. It's great that he capitalizes on chances unlike most of the roster, but I definitely think he's a lot closer to a sidecar/leech category guy than a dude who does much of anything to a line. I know that's probably a hot take around here but whatever.
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I don't think that's necessarily wrong, but if we was scoring 40 goals a year and being the one to drive the play, he'd probably be looking at a cap hit that starts with an 11 or 12 instead of 9.
 
BlindWillyMcHurt said:
Well they keep trying to stick him on the point which he should have NEVER been doing from the very beginning and now doubly so that he's old and his footspeed/recovery is ratcheted back like two notches. Yet that's just about all they'll try and then try to act shocked when it doesn't work. Shit man just stick him somewhere down low so he can use his hands/brain. You telling me that Lars Eller, Raks, Rust or the Shirefolk they tried there last week are gonna be better than him there even at this stage of his career? Come the f*** on.
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Still, the most maddening issue is how they refuse to just yank somebody aside in practice and say "Guess what, you've been volunteered to be the net-front guy on the power play. Get ready for a lot of ice baths and ice packs." :laugh: Doesn't even matter who it is; Rakell, DOC, Smith, f***in' Carter. Anybody to just stand there, plant their ass in the goalie's sightlines, and make these constant long range shots have some sort of threat to 'em since the goalie can't track 'em.

Again, idiocy. Deeply unlikable team.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Still, the most maddening issue is how they refuse to just yank somebody aside in practice and say "Guess what, you've been volunteered to be the net-front guy on the power play. Get ready for a lot of ice baths and ice packs." :laugh: Doesn't even matter who it is; Rakell, DOC, Smith, f***in' Carter. Anybody to just stand there, plant their ass in the goalie's sightlines, and make these constant long range shots have some sort of threat to 'em since the goalie can't track 'em.

Again, idiocy. Deeply unlikable team.
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No no no... THAT isn't even the worst part.

The worst part is that they seem to play a style of game catered towards working the puck low to high and getting off point shots. But then utterly fail at doing the actual important part of the equation which is what you are describing. So they... uh... try for low percentage beside-the-net tip-in horseshit instead which I see work like five total times a season. Just... why?
 
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Discuss
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Empoleon8771 said:
You don't play Puustinen with Malkin because you think Puustinen is top-6 caliber. You play Puustinen with Malkin if you can acquire a bona fide top line LW to play as the other winger on that line, because Puustinen can likely be carried into sufficient enough production if you put an elite LWer opposite of him.

It's the same logic as running with Guentzel-Crosby-Simon back in the day. It's not "Simon is top line caliber", it's "Simon can be carried into effective results while playing with the other two".
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You were talking prime Crosby there who was capable to carry.

Now we are talking an aging Malkin, who i believe is still a very good hockey player but why not surround a guy like that at this point in his career the best you can offer. IMO if thats Puustinen that pretty sad.

"Hey Geno we appreciate you sticking around, we're going to let you ride off into the sunset here as a Penguin but before you do we have another Euro we want you to carry along with you. Let's see what you can do, his specialty is his wicked shot, he has 2 goals in 26 games in the black and gold, your gonna love it."
 
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3ladesof5teel said:
You were talking prime Crosby there who was capable to carry.

Now we are talking an aging Malkin, who i believe is still a very good hockey player but why not surround a guy like that at this point in his career the best you can offer. IMO if thats Puustinen that pretty sad.

"Hey Geno we appreciate you sticking around, we're going to let you ride off into the sunset here as a Penguin but before you do we have another Euro we want you to carry along with you. Let's see what you can do, his specialty is his wicked shot, he has 2 goals in 26 games in the black and gold, your gonna love it."
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"You play Puustinen with Malkin if you can acquire a bona fide top line LW to play as the other winger on that line, because Puustinen can likely be carried into sufficient enough production if you put an elite LWer opposite of him."

Again, it's not "let's play Puustinen with Malkin". It's "let's get an elite linemate for Malkin which can allow them to be okay with playing a guy like Puustinen with Malkin".
 
Empoleon8771 said:
"You play Puustinen with Malkin if you can acquire a bona fide top line LW to play as the other winger on that line, because Puustinen can likely be carried into sufficient enough production if you put an elite LWer opposite of him."

Again, it's not "let's play Puustinen with Malkin". It's "let's get an elite linemate for Malkin which can allow them to be okay with playing a guy like Puustinen with Malkin".
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So essentially a 3rd wheel? I'd rather DOC play that 3rd wheel as puck retrieval and a body than Puustinen if that's the case. Much better suited
 
Epic Neal Time said:
Discuss View attachment 825697
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I don't hate any of them, although the Kaliyev one is the one I'm most iffy on since I don't really see the fit or the point. Would rather just a pick or something.

Hague would be awesome.. makes trading Pettersson palatable.. but also, why wouldn't you just run Pettersson-Karlsson, Hague-Letang then? Lundell and a 2nd is a massive tho- especially if you consider that Pettersson had like no value two years ago.
 
3ladesof5teel said:
So essentially a 3rd wheel? I'd rather DOC play that 3rd wheel as puck retrieval and a body than Puustinen if that's the case. Much better suited
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Yeah, that's fine too. The concept here is that the 2nd line has a duo that drives play and you're hoping the 3rd guy can produce enough to get great value out of his contract. It's the same concept as what Guentzel-Crosby-Simon or Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist were back in the day. I'm totally good if O'Connor is on the 2nd line if Sam Reinhart is the RW on that line. That's what I mean they should be doing.

If you could trade Rakell and Smith and throw a bunch of money at Reinhart this off-season, you could run with:

Guentzel-Crosby-Puustinen
O'Connor-Malkin-Reinhart
Bemstrom-Eller-Rust

But I'm not overly happy with Puustinen's fit on L1 there.
 
MayorofWBS said:
I don't get this thinking. It's literally asking to do the same boring ass thing we have been doing forever that hasn't worked. This is asking to maintain the status quo.
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Then nuke the team, I'm fine with that.

The two paths they have are to either retool and try to contend or rebuild entirely. I'm fine with either. I'm saying if they go the retool route, I'd rather trade Rakell and re-sign Guentzel.
 
Rakell-Crosby-Rust
O'Connor-Pettersson-Malkin
Mikhayev-Eller-Bemstrom

Guentzel w/ extension, Smith, Pickering for Pettersson, Mikhayev :naughty:
 
Ideally I think you gotta try and fleece some team like Detroit, Winnipeg, Nashville, Minny, etc. that have strong prospect pools, are within striking distance of the playoffs, and may want to expedite the steps toward legitimately competing.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Then nuke the team, I'm fine with that.

The two paths they have are to either retool and try to contend or rebuild entirely. I'm fine with either. I'm saying if they go the retool route, I'd rather trade Rakell and re-sign Guentzel.
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I don't see a clear good retool path that doesn't include selling Guentzel at the TDL. I'm okay with trading Rakell but he's only going out for a underwhelming return. Weaponizing cap space is okay if you are looking for complimentary, third wheel NHL vets that are no longer worth it for their current team. So basically, doing what we have been doing for years with no success.
 
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The prospect(s) are way more important than whatever late 1st rounder they get on top in a Jake trade imo. They gotta get a prospect or two that are Yager tier or better.
 
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