Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[StaalForOne]

If they're going to sell I do like the idea of trading with vancouver. JR was never shy about overpaying to get the guy he wants

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not one scenario where I’d keep Jake personally. I hope they cash in on him, move Smith, Rust, Rakell— whatever isn’t bolted down. They don’t need any of these guys IMO.

Petts is the one where I can buy holding long term through a rebuild. He’d net a haul though.

I fundamentally can't understand wanting to trade Guentzel but not Pettersson.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I could absolutely see us not trading Jake and attempting to extend him.

I’m gonna guess Smith gets dealt.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They should trade Jake and Petts regardless of their plans moving forward. You want to try (in vain) for a quick retool? You get a ton of assets to switch things up via trade. You want to load up on picks and prospects? Those two are the most tradable, valuable assets on the roster by miles.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I fundamentally can't understand wanting to trade Guentzel but not Pettersson.

Cost and position. Petts is slightly younger and won’t cost 9-10M/ year. Plays a more important position. I’m still happy to move Petts though.

Reason 2- Jake is an elite elite elite complimentary player- which is hard to find (as we know from Sid). This team is just not in the right place to keep a guy like him at a premium price IMO. It would be different if you could rely on him to drive a line but IMO you can’t. I don’t know how helpful he is to developing a guy like Yager tbh. 8 years of him at 9-10M just doesn’t sound like something accretive to a rebuild.

Petts at 6M plays the type of game where yeah you can drop in a young D next to him at let him develop. Doesn’t cost you a fortune. Guentzel doesn’t create space for his linemates, doesn’t win pucks back, isn’t a transition monster.

 

[Maninthebox87]

What kind of deal would pettersson potentially be looking for after this season? I wouldn’t hate moving him if they are able to bring someone in this offseason. I don’t think any of the penguins defensive prospects including Pickering will be ready next year.

 

[MrBrightside]

What kind of deal would pettersson potentially be looking for after this season? I wouldn’t hate moving him if they are able to bring someone in this offseason. I don’t think any of the penguins defensive prospects including Pickering will be ready next year.

I'd think he'd get something like what Pulock got. 8/$49M.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Cost and position. Petts is slightly younger and won’t cost 9-10M/ year. Plays a more important position. I’m still happy to move Petts though.

Reason 2- Jake is an elite elite elite complimentary player- which is hard to find (as we know from Sid). This team is just not in the right place to keep a guy like him at a premium price IMO. It would be different if you could rely on him to drive a line but IMO you can’t. I don’t know how helpful he is to developing a guy like Yager tbh. 8 years of him at 9-10M just doesn’t sound like something accretive to a rebuild.

Petts at 6M plays the type of game where yeah you can drop in a young D next to him at let him develop. Doesn’t cost you a fortune. Guentzel doesn’t create space for his linemates, doesn’t win pucks back, isn’t a transition monster.

Pettersson at best is going to be their #3 D while Guentzel is their top line LW. I can't see an argument for Pettersson playing a more important position.

If Pettersson is a guy you want to re-sign, keeping Guentzel is also a no brainer. Either trade both or keep both, only keeping 1 doesn't make sense.

 

[Come on]

Not trading Pettersson if the team is retooling would be absolutely nonsensical. What's the point of keeping him if your team isn't competing?

Pettersson's one of the most logical guys to trade, he's a UFA after next year that will command a huge raise and he's more a supporting piece for a great team. I don't see Bahl, Hameenaho and a 2nd for him at all as a "shitty return". Hameenaho is a super intriguing guy to me because he's doing really well in the Liiga as a 19 year old (25 points in 38 games) and gives hardcore Guentzel vibes from his scouting report:



Combine that with a strong WJC performance (4 goals and 6 points in 7 games) and he's a guy that is really appealing to target.

Because it's a retool not a rebuild. If you were rebuilding trade him yes but, a retool no way he is the only good defensive dman we have.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I'd think he'd get something like what Pulock got. 8/$49M.

I feel that’s a little rich for him…. However we know how he works with their system… I’d almost want to pay a little more and get Hanafin at that price maybe.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we're gonna have to adjust our normal for contracts with the cap jumping $5 million this summer, and probably moving forward. The average price of a top pairing defensive guy like Petts is probably gonna be silly in a few years, despite his shortcomings offensively and lack of physical game.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Pettersson at best is going to be their #3 D while Guentzel is their top line LW. I can't see an argument for Pettersson playing a more important position.

If Pettersson is a guy you want to re-sign, keeping Guentzel is also a no brainer. Either trade both or keep both, only keeping 1 doesn't make sense.

Don’t agree with you. I can find a bunch of small scoring wingers out there.

Idk how many players are really in Petts mold of a modern defensive d-man and have shown the ability to get results.

D > W. Would rather pay Petts than Jake.

like I’ve said, happy to trade both though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Don’t agree with you. I can find a bunch of small scoring wingers out there.

Idk how many players are really in Petts mold of a modern defensive d-man and have shown the ability to get results.

D > W. Would rather pay Petts than Jake.

like I’ve said, happy to trade both though.

Calling Guentzel that is like saying "I can find a bunch of lanky defensive defensemen out there" and pointing at Ryan Graves.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Calling Guentzel that is like saying "I can find a bunch of lanky defensive defensemen out there" and pointing at Ryan Graves.

Ight we don’t agree so let’s just stop. I hate debating with you. You’re too wordy. Have it your way I do not care. I articulated my point twice. Take it or leave it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ight we don’t agree so let’s just stop. I hate debating with you. You’re too wordy. Have it your way I do not care.

Uh.....okay?

Calling Guentzel a "small scoring winger" when he's been a 40 goal, PPG winger for basically his entire career is just dumb. It's as dumb as dismissing Pettersson as important because "it's easy to find lanky DFD" and using Graves as an example of getting that.

But whatever, if being challenged in a discussion causes you to have a temper tantrum, you do you.

Because it's a retool not a rebuild. If you were rebuilding trade him yes but, a retool no way he is the only good defensive dman we have.

If it's a retool, you don't trade Guentzel though. You trade off guys like Rakell and Smith and keep Guentzel.

This team needs to pick a lane for what they're going to do. If it's a retool, you don't trade guys like Jarry, Guentzel and Pettersson and only trade guys like Rakell and Smith. If it's a rebuild, you nuke the team and trade anyone outside of the core for value.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Calling Guentzel that is like saying "I can find a bunch of lanky defensive defensemen out there" and pointing at Ryan Graves.

I heard Rickard Rakell was already the new Jake Guentzel

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Calling Guentzel a "small scoring winger" when he's been a 40 goal, PPG winger for basically his entire career is just dumb.

He’s a winger that is small and scores a lot.. It’s not an insult. I’d say the same about prime Gaudreau, who was a way better player than Jake. Like telling me it’s dumb to call the sky blue.

You should be a lawyer.

 

[MrBrightside]

If it's a retool, you don't trade Guentzel though. You trade off guys like Rakell and Smith and keep Guentzel.

This team needs to pick a lane for what they're going to do. If it's a retool, you don't trade guys like Jarry, Guentzel and Pettersson and only trade guys like Rakell and Smith. If it's a rebuild, you nuke the team and trade anyone outside of the core for value.

I mean, this is correct. If they truly plan to take another run at this next year, you're not going to replace Jake and Petts with players as good or better in the short run. One can argue that's not what they should do, and I get that argument, but if that's the plan then you keep them both.

 

[Andy99]

D men age differently than wingers…Jake is past his prime and Petts is not…I hope Dubas is listening on everyone not the core but trading Petts better land Us a top A prospect and top six NHL young player now

 

[Maninthebox87]

I’m a little torn on trading Jake it felt like for years they were “trying to get a winger for Sid” but I think get Sid a couple guys who can hustle and do the “dirty work” for him and he’ll be alright. I think he’s really their best trade chip to retool and at least get something different into the lineup.

I think if there’s a potential second line nhl ready/ close to ready center prospect to be had for him I’d do it I think Geno is slowing down and if they can’t find any wingers to play with him then eff it move him to the wing and let him rip shots.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I'd think he'd get something like what Pulock got. 8/$49M.

I feel that’s a little rich for him…. However we know how he works with their system… I’d almost want to pay a little more and get Hanafin at that price maybe.

I think Petts gets 8x6.5 for 52 mill. With the1 last year at his 4 mill.

I think Hanafin gets 7.5 for 7/8. Bringing in a UFA is never guaranteed though for us

 

[Empoleon8771]

D men age differently than wingers…Jake is past his prime and Petts is not…I hope Dubas is listening on everyone not the core but trading Petts better land Us a top A prospect and top six NHL young player now

Guentzel is producing the same as he has in his best seasons and is seemingly driving play more this year than in the past.

I just don't get the argument for not extending Guentzel but extending Pettersson. Pettersson is going to be 29 when his new deal starts compared to 30 for Guentzel. Like I understand the argument being made, I just think it's a flawed argument. I think it's firmly "trade both or keep both", I think both have that level of importance to the team and trading only one is inconsistent with where this team should be focusing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's pretty obvious that you'd prefer to... you know... keep the 40 goal scorer.

But with the team in the state it's in it's hard to see the point. They're just gonna look the same next season. They just overturned most of the roster and have burned through like 3 GMs the last five years or whatever it is. What are we even doing, here?

Mike Sullivan isn't going anywhere so the team isn't going anywhere in the standings. He's gotten everything he's wanted and more and these are the results. They won't even fire the fraudulent, never-was assistant coach heading up the worst powerplay this team has ever iced. Sell everything not bolted down since that's the only reality left that makes any sense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's pretty obvious that you'd prefer to... you know... keep the 40 goal scorer.

But with the team in the state it's in it's hard to see the point. They're just gonna look the same next season. They just overturned most of the roster and have burned through like 3 GMs the last five years or whatever it is. What are we even doing, here?

Mike Sullivan isn't going anywhere so the team isn't going anywhere in the standings. He's gotten everything he's wanted and more and these are the results. They won't even sell the fraudulent, never-was assistant coach heading up the worst powerplay this team has ever iced. Sell everything not bolted down since that's the only reality left that makes any sense.

I think this argument is totally fair. I think there's a legitimate argument for just retooling vs nuking the team. I just don't think you can go halfway and do something like "trade Guentzel but keep Pettersson".

 

[Andy99]

Guentzel is producing the same as he has in his best seasons and is seemingly driving play more this year than in the past.

I just don't get the argument for not extending Guentzel but extending Pettersson. Pettersson is going to be 29 when his new deal starts compared to 30 for Guentzel. Like I understand the argument being made, I just think it's a flawed argument. I think it's firmly "trade both or keep both", I think both have that level of importance to the team and trading only one is inconsistent with where this team should be focusing.

Assuming we have a couple years left of Sid, do you see him him killing it with Rakell and Rust? He’d also be fine with a good young player like Mercer too, and maybe Yager is a guy who can play on his wing and have nearly the success of Jake…we’re not winning playoff games with Jake now so I don’t get the desire to re-sign him, like anything different will change…Petts is Different in that we don’t have anyone else on D who can play defense or anyone ready in the wings lol…also D men take longer to develop, so if we got a young LHD in a trade for Jake, for example, it would take a few years of development