Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Andy99]

The injury was to the hand/pinky no? Skating is not a problem

Not surprised he’s skating … can’t come back until March 10 any way

 

[Ulf5]

Bemstrom's deal is up.

I don't see Tuevo getting that type of deal tbh. He's exactly the type of forward that gets pushed out.

Isn't Bemstrom a rfa?

 

[Gurglesons]

Isn't Bemstrom a rfa?

Yes. You can not qualify him.

 

[SEALBound]

Snipers like Jake Guentzel are rarely available at Trade Deadline – and contenders should pounce

If the Penguins move Guentzel, the pieces acquired could kickstart a roster overhaul.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Here's the list of potential suiters they suggest and maybe a deal or two I could see:

Arizona Coyotes: This one came as a shock to me and I don't think it's likely since Arizona is no where near the WC but they could be wanting the jump on signing him in FA. Barret Hayton straight up? They also have an embarrassment of 2nds. Jake+POJ for Zucker, Hayton, 2nd?

Carolina Hurricanes: I suggest Jake+conditonal 2nd (based off resigning) for Necas. Could also see Bunting+2nd (or conditional 1st)
Colorado Avalanche: 2024 cond 1st, 2025 1st, 2025 3rd
Detroit Red Wings: So much would depend on Jake resigning. Berggren, Sprong, 1st
Edmonton Oilers: Yesh - Foegele, Broberg, 1st
Florida Panthers: Another tough one as they don't have much. I just don't know.
New York Rangers: Kakko+conditional 1st+2025 3rd. Could also see something like Goodrow, 1st, 3rd.
Vancouver Canucks: Lekkerimaki+1st
Vegas Golden Knights: similar to Colorado.

 

[Ryder71]

The injury was to the hand/pinky no? Skating is not a problem

Yes but he's gripping sticks already so... good sign.

Here's the list of potential suiters they suggest and maybe a deal or two I could see:

Arizona Coyotes: This one came as a shock to me and I don't think it's likely since Arizona is no where near the WC but they could be wanting the jump on signing him in FA. Barret Hayton straight up? They also have an embarrassment of 2nds. Jake+POJ for Zucker, Hayton, 2nd?

Carolina Hurricanes: I suggest Jake+conditonal 2nd (based off resigning) for Necas. Could also see Bunting+2nd (or conditional 1st)
Colorado Avalanche: 2024 cond 1st, 2025 1st, 2025 3rd
Detroit Red Wings: So much would depend on Jake resigning. Berggren, Sprong, 1st
Edmonton Oilers: Yesh - Foegele, Broberg, 1st
Florida Panthers: Another tough one as they don't have much. I just don't know.
New York Rangers: Kakko+conditional 1st+2025 3rd. Could also see something like Goodrow, 1st, 3rd.
Vancouver Canucks: Lekkerimaki+1st
Vegas Golden Knights: similar to Colorado.

For VAN what about Hoglander and a '25 1st? He's 23, so he fits our narrative in getting younger and has decent upside.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

if that's true, it would be a major coaching fail for not moving jake to geno's wing.

Well again, we saw Geno + Jake be miles better than Sid + Jake (which is no small feat) .

But Sullivan doesn't like Geno so he gets the shit wingers

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Here's the list of potential suiters they suggest and maybe a deal or two I could see:

Arizona Coyotes: This one came as a shock to me and I don't think it's likely since Arizona is no where near the WC but they could be wanting the jump on signing him in FA. Barret Hayton straight up? They also have an embarrassment of 2nds. Jake+POJ for Zucker, Hayton, 2nd?

Carolina Hurricanes: I suggest Jake+conditonal 2nd (based off resigning) for Necas. Could also see Bunting+2nd (or conditional 1st)
Colorado Avalanche: 2024 cond 1st, 2025 1st, 2025 3rd
Detroit Red Wings: So much would depend on Jake resigning. Berggren, Sprong, 1st
Edmonton Oilers: Yesh - Foegele, Broberg, 1st
Florida Panthers: Another tough one as they don't have much. I just don't know.
New York Rangers: Kakko+conditional 1st+2025 3rd. Could also see something like Goodrow, 1st, 3rd.
Vancouver Canucks: Lekkerimaki+1st
Vegas Golden Knights: similar to Colorado.

I'm unfamiliar with a lot of those names as I don't watch much NHL outside of the Pens.

But the Pens need 2 types of wingers imported. Whether that's trading or FA this offseason:
1) Guy that will go to the net and disrupt things ala Horny-lite
2) A player who can score from long distance ala Zucker/Laine/etc.

Realize players with those traits will have major shortcomings in other areas, but enough of these middling perimeter wingers like Rakell, Rust, etc.

 

[SEALBound]

Yes but he's gripping sticks already so... good sign.


For VAN what about Hoglander and a '25 1st? He's 23, so he fits our narrative in getting younger and has decent upside.

Yeah I would obviously do that too. Course, there was just a tweet that came out that said Vancouver is looking for a small RFA deal and that they don't want to be paying big assets for a rental so I'm not sure Jake makes sense there anymore.

The number of teams that "make sense" are beginning to dwindle a bit. Vegas makes the most sense. Then Carolina, Dallas, and Colorado but only as a rental which could hurt value.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah I would obviously do that too. Course, there was just a tweet that came out that said Vancouver is looking for a small RFA deal and that they don't want to be paying big assets for a rental so I'm not sure Jake makes sense there anymore.

The number of teams that "make sense" are beginning to dwindle a bit. Vegas makes the most sense. Then Carolina, Dallas, and Colorado but only as a rental which could hurt value.

At a minimum we need a 1st, a high end prospect or young nhler with upside and another small add. Particularly IF we retain 50%. THAT will enhance his value quite a bit. He's one of the best LW in all of hockey and not 30 yet. There's enough teams interested where the return should be very good-excellent. I just wouldn't wait until the last minute as teams find different suitors. Hopefully by next wednesday he's moved.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Well again, we saw Geno + Jake be miles better than Sid + Jake (which is no small feat) .

But Sullivan doesn't like Geno so he gets the shit wingers

33 year old Geno, but ok.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

33 year old Geno, but ok.

I doubt it works either, but what is the worst that happens if you try them for 10 games?
The team looks like shit? Oh nooz!!!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake thing has always seemed off to me. Felt way more like they're basically equal. Anyone got any stats for a lazy shmuck like me to quell the curiosity?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You lot are hopeful considering the ignorant wanker that will still be head coach.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I doubt it works either, but what is the worst that happens if you try them for 10 games?
The team looks like shit? Oh nooz!!!

Sid and Jake are pretty much the only sure thing we have at ES.

I can see the argument that we should try Jake-Geno again I find the sleight of hand of casting productivity when Geno was 33 and no one knew of "Wuhan, China" to be dishonest.

 

[BillyOcean]

Yall acting like the Penguins aren't going to go on a stupid run for the next week and not do anything of significant at the TDL.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake thing has always seemed off to me. Felt way more like they're basically equal. Anyone got any stats for a lazy shmuck like me to quell the curiosity?

IMO we're way too far past the fact for any of it to be relevant any longer. But the main point is that the team should have tried harder years ago to try putting a legit wing on BOTH top lines. Guys like Zucker, Rust, Raks, Smith etc. are fine enough players but not enough to actually make a big enough difference.

A sidebar to this is that if that just isn't feasible then Sid is clearly the better player and can do more with less. That being the case... why not try to balance the lines to match? Hell we even see it, now... Crosby is doing fine without Jake.

Again... none of this really matters, now. But it was frustrating at the time.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yall acting like the Penguins aren't going to go on a stupid run for the next week and not do anything of significant at the TDL.

Yea when the chips are down, this Pens team led by Mr. Jack Adams himself, always comes through in the clutch.

Oh wait....

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

IMO we're way too far past the fact for any of it to be relevant any longer. But the main point is that the team should have tried harder years ago to try putting a legit wing on BOTH top lines. Guys like Zucker, Rust, Raks, Smith etc. are fine enough players but not enough to actually make a big enough difference.

A sidebar to this is that if that just isn't feasible then Sid is clearly the better player and can do more with less. That being the case... why not try to balance the lines to match? Hell we even see it, now... Crosby is doing fine without Jake.

Again... none of this really matters, now. But it was frustrating at the time.

Oh, agree for sure on the "team needed two Jakes" thing. Problem is the talent evaluators thought that meant Smith, Zucker, Rakell, and Kap.

I was just curious because this place loves to bang on the Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake drum and I just never really noticed tbh. Again, felt pretty much even to me, but I was curious if I was way off in that gut feeling.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh, agree for sure on the "team needed two Jakes" thing. Problem is the talent evaluators thought that meant Smith, Zucker, Rakell, and Kap.

I was just curious because this place loves to bang on the Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake drum and I just never really noticed tbh. Again, felt pretty much even to me, but I was curious if I was way off in that gut feeling.

I'd say it was about even. The VISUAL dominance was probably greater with Jake/Geno but the results were likely about the same if I had to guess and cared enough to backdive into it.

But again... that only kind of illustrates the point more. If you can have TWO dominant top lines... you do it. You don't try to cater to the player regardless of how important they are if production is likely to be unchanged or have a negligible decline.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

The Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake thing has always seemed off to me. Felt way more like they're basically equal. Anyone got any stats for a lazy shmuck like me to quell the curiosity?

Honestly it was equal and someone might show the stats but it was super close.

 

[PensFutures]

Yes but he's gripping sticks already so... good sign.


For VAN what about Hoglander and a '25 1st? He's 23, so he fits our narrative in getting younger and has decent upside.

Because of our lack of depth, I would prefer this type of deal over all futures. A young productive player and a 1st/A level prospect doesnt create as big of a hole in the lineup, while still helping the rebuild/retool

The Geno+Jake > Sid+Jake thing has always seemed off to me. Felt way more like they're basically equal. Anyone got any stats for a lazy shmuck like me to quell the curiosity?

Sid and Jake's chart is Royal Blue, while Geno and Jake's is more of an Ocean Blue. #analytics

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Can we sign Jake after we trade him or there’s something in the CBA that prevents it? I would buy 10 Jake jerseys if he can get us assets and come back home in the summer

 

[pistolpete11]

IMO we're way too far past the fact for any of it to be relevant any longer. But the main point is that the team should have tried harder years ago to try putting a legit wing on BOTH top lines. Guys like Zucker, Rust, Raks, Smith etc. are fine enough players but not enough to actually make a big enough difference.

A sidebar to this is that if that just isn't feasible then Sid is clearly the better player and can do more with less. That being the case... why not try to balance the lines to match? Hell we even see it, now... Crosby is doing fine without Jake.

Again... none of this really matters, now. But it was frustrating at the time.

Well, they did try to do that with Kessel and ended up winning 2 Cups I'm OK moving on from Kessel when they did, but they didn't learn their lesson and went back to asking Crosby and Malkin to do more with less....or I guess at least Malkin.

The other funny thing is that I would have killed to surround Crosby and Malkin with guys like Rakell, Rust, Smith, Zucker, etc. when they were in their 20's, especially their early 20's. Instead we got Dupuis, Talbot, Fedotenko, etc.

 

[PensFutures]

Can we sign Jake after we trade him or there’s something in the CBA that prevents it? I would buy 10 Jake jerseys if he can get us assets and come back home in the summer

Has anyone actually done this Recchi in 06?

 

[Ryder71]

Because of our lack of depth, I would prefer this type of deal over all futures. A young productive player and a 1st/A level prospect doesnt create as big of a hole in the lineup, while still helping the rebuild/retool


Sid and Jake's chart is Royal Blue, while Geno and Jake's is more of an Ocean Blue. #analytics

I think and as you alluded to it accomplishes two primary objectives. A future asset and a player we can plug in now who's only 23. And the cost for VAN seems reasonable particularly with us retaining.