I would put “playing” in quotes when talking about Carter…
Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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I am beginning to see why Harkins was waived. Decent player, good energy, good battle but very vanilla.
I think DOC and Eller are fine but that line needs a different element than Harkins. It could be Hinostranza. Someone with some speed and skill. This is where not having a 2016 Sheary, Rust, Wilson, etc hurts.
Not sure who you can even target either. Maybe Pitlick+Smith for an underperforming $2mil player? Maybe you can get Patty Kane to sign? Maybe Carter gets hurt and you can use his LTIR money?
Looking at cap space, we are spending $1.5 on Petry and 900k on JJ. Having $2.6mil tied up in non playing players is tough to swallow right now. You could send Pitlick+Smith out for a $4mil player you didn't have the buyout and retention. Adding a solid 3RW would really help. Or it would give you the space at the deadline to make a major addition like a Zucker.
I think DOC and Eller are fine but that line needs a different element than Harkins. It could be Hinostranza. Someone with some speed and skill. This is where not having a 2016 Sheary, Rust, Wilson, etc hurts.
Not sure who you can even target either. Maybe Pitlick+Smith for an underperforming $2mil player? Maybe you can get Patty Kane to sign? Maybe Carter gets hurt and you can use his LTIR money?
Looking at cap space, we are spending $1.5 on Petry and 900k on JJ. Having $2.6mil tied up in non playing players is tough to swallow right now. You could send Pitlick+Smith out for a $4mil player you didn't have the buyout and retention. Adding a solid 3RW would really help. Or it would give you the space at the deadline to make a major addition like a Zucker.
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Sully obviously has Harkins on the shortest leash among forwards, since he is young and unproven -- but we have no depth there on the NHL roster so he's safe for another game or 2. Nieto hasn't been any better than Harkins, but he's a veteran and it can always be claimed that the black hole known as Jeff Carter is dragging him down.
However we do have at least 1 better option (Ludvig) on defense than what we are currently using. But after 2 wins in a row Sully probably isn't going to even change his underwear, much less the lineup. If Dubas could force an improvement there while simultaneously helping the forwards, that would be great.
Honestly there isn’t one guy in the bottom six I wouldn’t be willing to replace with Zohorna, Poulin, Hino, White, Puusty etc…I liked some of Eller’s game but he shouldn’t be taking all these penalties…Sullivan should be trying out other players there on a regular basis…keeping up 8 D isn’t helping matters…waive one, bring up an additional forward and sit someone in the bottom six (preferably Carter) …if that player isn’t cutting it, bring up someone else…he’s got like 9 games for each player to figure it out before the waiver wire hits again, so use it
For example, could go
DOC-Eller-Zohorna
Nieto-Acciari-Harkins
DOC-Eller-Acciari
Nieto-Zohorna-Harkins
For example, could go
DOC-Eller-Zohorna
Nieto-Acciari-Harkins
DOC-Eller-Acciari
Nieto-Zohorna-Harkins
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Big Friggin Dummy
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Darren McCord
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No shea and Ludwig aren’t even nhlers yet. Poj isn’t being moved now
He look good in stretches last night. Harkins is invisible. I honestly forgot he was on the team
From latest Pensburgh article…I don’t think this strategy is sustainable for even 75% of the season lol
“In essence, and as was pretty evident and pretty much admitted from the front office - the Pens are going to try and play to a draw when 87 and 71 aren’t on the ice and count on their PK and goalies to hold up their end of the bargain.
Then, the big boys need to feast and supply enough offense to win games. Aside from some unfortunate bounces in the opener, the plan has gotten off to exactly the start that was imagined.”
“In essence, and as was pretty evident and pretty much admitted from the front office - the Pens are going to try and play to a draw when 87 and 71 aren’t on the ice and count on their PK and goalies to hold up their end of the bargain.
Then, the big boys need to feast and supply enough offense to win games. Aside from some unfortunate bounces in the opener, the plan has gotten off to exactly the start that was imagined.”
Big Friggin Dummy
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Harkins has been invisible, yeah, but so has DOC. /shrug
They're both -1, zero points, and they have 3 and 2 shots respectively through three games.
It's hard to see how they make the bottom 6 a positive. Carter isn't going anywhere so that's your 4th line budget shot even if you put him next to 2 league minimum guys. He's not Gladams bad yet, but he's past the point of consistent positive contributions. That line will be neutral at best.
I'm hoping Nieto and DOC can find their games. Those guys have the wheels to be serviceable minute eaters. Whether it's them, Poulin, or Zohorna the Penguins need someone to give them more than they have shown so far.
Darren McCord
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Harkins has been invisible, yeah, but so has DOC. /shrug
They're both -1, zero points, and they have 3 and 2 shots respectively through three games.
Ya what irks me is Harkins didn’t have a great preseason here but was gifted that spot. I’d like to see them bring up a 13th forward to try new combos.
Agree with the assessment of his play, but if Dubas and team love the player from what they have seen in previous years then there are worse things to do then give him an extended tryout. Worst case you dump him on the baby Pens next month and try one of the guys you already saw in camp.
Jacob
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The 4th line could be better if they were more physical. Wear the other team down a bit or put them back on their heels. But only Acciari plays like that.
Most 4th lines are a net negative in scoring, Matt Martin and Reaves are frequently minus players but you assume they’re doing things that will make life a little easier for the next line.
Most 4th lines are a net negative in scoring, Matt Martin and Reaves are frequently minus players but you assume they’re doing things that will make life a little easier for the next line.
Josey Wales
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Randy Butternubs
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Yeah, the bottom six is fine for now.
As much as I like him, I think you've gotta look at trading POJ for a bottom six upgrade.
As much as I like him, I think you've gotta look at trading POJ for a bottom six upgrade.
Jacob
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No issue with Harkins though I think in a perfect world he’s a 4th liner until he proves otherwise.
Empoleon8771
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Harkins hasn't been worse than O'Connor, so I'm confused for why this place is complaining about Harkins but seemingly praising O'Connor.
I've seen more people suggest playing O'Connor in the top-6 than people criticizing O'Connor for being invisible this year. Really bizarre double standard on here.
I've seen more people suggest playing O'Connor in the top-6 than people criticizing O'Connor for being invisible this year. Really bizarre double standard on here.
Josey Wales
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Because people who shit their pants about players have to find new players because Dubas got rid of them all but Carter who he can't
Darren McCord
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Empoleon8771
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For specific numbers:
Harkins: 3 shots, 5 shot attempts, 3 high danger shot attempts, 4 hits and 1 blocked shot
O'Connor: 2 shots, 4 shot attempts, 0 high danger shot attempts, 0 hits and 0 blocked shots
Harkins hasn't been anything special, but the process there with him is definitely what you want out of an energy bottom-6 forward. He's playing with energy, throwing his weight around and is at least getting to the high danger areas and dirty areas. O'Connor is doing pretty much nothing.
Harkins: 3 shots, 5 shot attempts, 3 high danger shot attempts, 4 hits and 1 blocked shot
O'Connor: 2 shots, 4 shot attempts, 0 high danger shot attempts, 0 hits and 0 blocked shots
Harkins hasn't been anything special, but the process there with him is definitely what you want out of an energy bottom-6 forward. He's playing with energy, throwing his weight around and is at least getting to the high danger areas and dirty areas. O'Connor is doing pretty much nothing.
Darren McCord
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Again they are pretty much the same. Id rotate them. They have DOC on the PK now though as well. He had a good chance on the rush with rust the other game. They are both meh but neithers spot should be locked.
The guy i am actually most disappointed with is Nieto. bad penalties and not brining much.
I agree O'Connor has been mediocre too. I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if him and POJ were traded as a package for a better forward option. I just like the pace of play he can bring. I'll take even goals against the opposition if you and gasing them out making them chase you around on the cycle.
Big Friggin Dummy
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The thing that sucks about DOC so far is that he looked so promising in pre-season. He's capable of doing things to impact the game, but he just... doesn't. Not against legit NHL competition anyway.
Ryder71
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Hows the bottom six going to play to a draw when they can't produce at all or pert near? If they can play to a draw that'd be great, but they can't. Therein lies the rub.
Jacob
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I’d expect Nieto, Acciari & Carter to score about 30 ES goals total if they’re on the 4th line all or a majority of the year. If they can do that, be competent defensively and reasonably physical, and PK, I’m good.
Ryder71
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Regarding 4th line, They're not trending that way to this point.
Andy, not sure anyone in WB will make an impact, MAYBE Zohorna but...
DOC and Harkins both need to be better. DOC in particular.
Is Ludvig gonna play? Why did we get him if he's not gonna play? POJ looks overwhelmed at times. Maybe trade him to VAN for something.
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