GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[T1K]

New rankings probably look like:
1. Brayden Yager
2. Ville Koivunen
3. Owen Pickering
4. Joel Blomqvist
5. Vasili Ponomaryov
6. Sergei Murashov
7. Cruz Lucious
8. Sam Poulin
9. Mikhail Ilyin
10. Emil Pieniniemi

So 6, 7, 9 in Carolina becomes 2, 5, 7 here, and they could potentially be higher. None is better than Yager, but they could end up better than the goalies.

This really highlights how atrocious the prospect pool was before this trade.

 

[Jobeycool]

Adding the youth and picks all though conditional was a decent deal for Guentzel and Ty Smith

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm expecting Smith, Eller, Ruhwedel, and Nedelkjovic to go by the deadline. Smith and Eller might bring back a prospect or two, but the rest will be picks. Dubas may flip a pick or two to add a lotto ticket player to WBS since their ranks are so thin.

I think Rakell stays. And I think Acciari stays because I don't think the value is there right now.

When healthy, I think you run:
Rakell - Crosby - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Puustinen
Poulin - Ponomaryov - DOC
With some combo of Bemstrom, Acciari, Gruden, Puljujarvi and Carter on the fourth line.

Ponomaryov is better as a winger, Doc as the 3c instead makes more sense.

Thanks for picking up the slack.

 

[Ryder71]

Adding the youth and picks all though conditional was a decent deal for Guentzel and Ty Smith

I may have overreacted after thinking on it a bit. lol

That's a lot of assets. We don't have to necessarily hit on all of them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We get a top 9 guy in Bunting and restock the prospect pool. Considering the practically empty pool we had, I think quantity makes sense here.

What the Pens got is like adding prospects they missed those years these 3 were drafted because Gms moved picks to fix blokes Sullivan ruined and had to move out.

Solid lads for an ignorant tit of a coach to ruin.

 

[Empoleon8771]

After sitting on the deal for a bit longer, I think it’s fine, that’s about it. I don’t think they necessarily got bad value but it seems similar to taking like a Podkolzin, Raty, Pettersson and a 1st trade: not a ton of upside but a few solid NHL potential guys.

I know that top prospects very rarely get traded, especially for a rental. But it seems like Dubas tried to cast a wide net and get more, when focusing on fewer assets would have yielded a better prospect. At the same time, prospects are lottery tickets anyway, so I don’t know that my complaint is logical. It’s not like he traded Guentzel for 3 Nathan Legare prospects. There seems to be some upside with Koivunen, at least from stat watching.

I’d give it a C, and I wouldn’t really think of going much higher or lower than that.

New rankings probably look like:
1. Brayden Yager
2. Ville Koivunen
3. Owen Pickering
4. Joel Blomqvist
5. Vasili Ponomaryov
6. Sergei Murashov
7. Cruz Lucious
8. Sam Poulin
9. Mikhail Ilyin
10. Emil Pieniniemi

So 6, 7, 9 in Carolina becomes 2, 5, 7 here, and they could potentially be higher. None is better than Yager, but they could end up better than the goalies.

Broz should be included as well IMO.

 

[Jobeycool]

I may have overreacted after thinking on it a bit. lol

That's a lot of assets. We don't have to necessarily hit on all of them.

We still need to get younger players no matter what... going to be hard for a while but watching them now and how they struggle to hold on to leads and score goals against good teams is painful enough.

 

[Jobeycool]

After sitting on the deal for a bit longer, I think it’s fine, that’s about it. I don’t think they necessarily got bad value but it seems similar to taking like a Podkolzin, Raty, Pettersson and a 1st trade: not a ton of upside but a few solid NHL potential guys.

I know that top prospects very rarely get traded, especially for a rental. But it seems like Dubas tried to cast a wide net and get more, when focusing on fewer assets would have yielded a better prospect. At the same time, prospects are lottery tickets anyway, so I don’t know that my complaint is logical. It’s not like he traded Guentzel for 3 Nathan Legare prospects. There seems to be some upside with Koivunen, at least from stat watching.

I’d give it a C, and I wouldn’t really think of going much higher or lower than that.



Broz should be included as well IMO.

About all your going to get though... people act like Canes are going to give away their best prospect don't seem to understand NHL trades and one of their top players.

 

[molon labe]

Went to bed early - just catching up and seems like there's been a ton of over reactions to the trade...or are they?

Idk. I'm probably like most on the board - seems like a, whatever who knows? type of deal. I don't hate the Bunting grab - he's young(er), has term, and has SOME of what we need....then it's a grab back of prospects that are surely better than what we have. With prospects sometimes you never know and now we have some.

The big thing is selling the rest - somehow. Ned and Smith need to be gone in hours and do whatever you can to sell some more pieces too.

 

[Ryder71]

You would think so, but it is the penguins we are talking about.

Have no fear my friend Sully will play them the final six games of '27.

Even he was able to score against the Crapitals

 

[Empoleon8771]

About all your going to get though... people act like Canes are going to give away their best prospect don't seem to understand NHL trades and one of their top players.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that they could have gotten Bunting, the pick and Morrow instead of Bunting, the pick and the prospects they got. But at the same time, go ask Ottawa how targeting one top prospect went for them in the Stone trade. If that guy doesn’t hit, you get nothing.

So I understand why Dubas targeted what he targeted, but it’s still an underwhelming return. I think they need to hit on Koivunen as a top-6 guy long-term for me to call this a win for them.

 

[Pancakes]

I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that they could have gotten Bunting, the pick and Morrow instead of Bunting, the pick and the prospects they got. But at the same time, go ask Ottawa how targeting one top prospect went for them in the Stone trade. If that guy doesn’t hit, you get nothing.

So I understand why Dubas targeted what he targeted, but it’s still an underwhelming return. I think they need to hit on Koivunen as a top-6 guy long-term for me to call this a win for them.

If even one of these prospects hit as a top 9 forward and/or if they use that 2nd (or first if Carolina makes the finals) to get a top 9 forward...it's a win.

But it is a lot of scratch off tickets and they might get nothing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If even one of these prospects hit as a top 9 forward and/or if they use that 2nd (or first if Carolina makes the finals) to get a top 9 forward...it's a win.

But it is a lot of scratch off tickets and they might get nothing.

Nah I don’t agree. I think Ponomarev should be a guaranteed 3rd liner, or pretty damn close to guaranteed. They need to be getting one notable guy there. A rental Guentzel for 2 3rd liners in the long run stinks.

I think Koivunen seems to have that upside, so it’s not a stretch to think it could happen.

Although looking into it, I think you can argue that Guentzel was traded for a damn similar rental package to what Hall was trade for in 2020:

Hall traded to Coyotes by Devils | NHL.com

New Jersey receives three prospects, two conditional draft picks for 2018 Hart Trophy winner

www.nhl.com

Merkley, Schnarr and Bahl seems fairly similar to Koivunen, Ponomarev and Lucius.

 

[Pancakes]

Nah I don’t agree. I think Ponomarev should be a guaranteed 3rd liner, or pretty damn close to guaranteed. They need to be getting one notable guy there. A rental Guentzel for 2 3rd liners in the long run stinks.

I think Koivunen seems to have that upside, so it’s not a stretch to think it could happen.

Although looking into it, I think you can argue that Guentzel was traded for a damn similar rental package to what Hall was trade for in 2020:

Hall traded to Coyotes by Devils | NHL.com

New Jersey receives three prospects, two conditional draft picks for 2018 Hart Trophy winner

www.nhl.com

Merkley, Schnarr and Bahl seems fairly similar to Koivunen, Ponomarev and Lucius.

Why would you be disappointed in a couple of third liners? That'd be a pretty solid return for a guy that's literally a rental.

Obviously ideally we get a top six forward out of this and/or Dubas uses the 2nd/1st on something good in the draft but I mean I feel like only one or two of these prospects have to hit for this to have been a deal very much worth making.

If the argument is that the Pens could have gotten one premium asset instead, my rebuttal to that would be who knows if Carolina even would have given up just one of their top 3 guys to make this deal instead of letting Dubas do quantity. And as you yourself mentioned, when you go for only one guy if you strike out, that really hurts.

 

[molon labe]

I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that they could have gotten Bunting, the pick and Morrow instead of Bunting, the pick and the prospects they got. But at the same time, go ask Ottawa how targeting one top prospect went for them in the Stone trade. If that guy doesn’t hit, you get nothing.

So I understand why Dubas targeted what he targeted, but it’s still an underwhelming return. I think they need to hit on Koivunen as a top-6 guy long-term for me to call this a win for them.

That's my take on all the prospects that get mega hyped on this board. But comes with the territory on HF.

Poulin was untouchable just a couple seasons ago right? Who the F was Jake before he was Jake? But certainly here you feel he could have gotten at least one of the 20 dollar scratch-offs versus several 5 dollar ones.

So yeah, keep on selling and let's rebuild this damn team - but don't forget to fire the entire coaching staff in the process or it'll all be for nothing.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I have no idea who Blake and Morrow are but I think I'm supposed to be upset that we didn't get them

That is exactly right, you should be raging pissed. We didn't know who the f*** they were on Wednesday, but now agree it was an unforgivable travesty they weren't included in the trade. Plus, we had a secret ballot and you were unanimously selected as the board rep to beat Rossi and D.K. senseless just on general "journalistic" principles. Well, what are you waiting for?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly, in the end I think I’d be satisfied with the Guentzel deal if the 1st was guaranteed rather than conditional. Nothing in the deal seems bad, but nothing is particularly exciting either. And just keeping in mind what Guentzel was for the team, it’s just not energizing. But I don’t think you can make any argument that this is a bad deal for the Penguins. I also feel like I should be more excited about Bunting, who I wanted a lot last offseason and view as a good middle-6 winger.

Anyway, now we shift focus to Smith and see what he brings back.

 

[Lustaf]

IF, Jake signs back with the Penguins in the summer than this is an absolute home run.

As it stands today, the Penguins no longer have the best winger they've had in the Crosby+Malkin Era because they SOLD and that just feels like shit.

You could see it in that interview for Sid, he was defeated and he hasn't experienced this feeling before. We were always buyers, shit is setting in.

 

[molon labe]

IF, Jake signs back with the Penguins in the summer than this is an absolute home run.

As it stands today, the Penguins no longer have the best winger they've had in the Crosby+Malkin Era because they SOLD and that just feels like shit.

You could see it in that interview for Sid, he was defeated and he hasn't experienced this feeling before. We were always buyers, shit is setting in.

The only problem with this thinking - because it IS rational considering the extensions of Letang/Geno - is that "losing the best winger of X era of Sid's career" etc, talk - is that that winger was being required via his agent to land a (likely) 8 year deal of atrocious money.

How do we justify that after 6 years of playoff failure/no playoffs? We weren't winning with Jake here. Not this season not last... He wasn't changing the dynamics. He was just a guy that still performed pretty good and wasn't THE problem. But he wasn't a solution either - especially not going forward into his mid 30s.

I'll gladly take him back on a sensible 7 year deal don't get me wrong. But if he can get 9.5-10 in the market that just isn't going to work here. Frankly unless he has some miraculous post-season again I think his value has dropped with all the influx of goal scorers so there is certainly a chance. Idk. He was a case of damned if you do/don't imo. The real problem has been/will be the coaching and roster decisions until they make better choices with their money and staff/system.

 

[Empoleon8771]

IF, Jake signs back with the Penguins in the summer than this is an absolute home run.

As it stands today, the Penguins no longer have the best winger they've had in the Crosby+Malkin Era because they SOLD and that just feels like shit.

You could see it in that interview for Sid, he was defeated and he hasn't experienced this feeling before. We were always buyers, shit is setting in.

Maybe the team should stop being liquid shit if they want to keep their star players?

Dubas came in and added Karlsson in the off-season. Even with the flaws on the roster, the top end guys should have yielded at least a playoff team. Instead, they sucked. I truly believe this team is not a playoff team because of the powerplay, and the big guns hold a huge responsibility in that.

I feel bad for Crosby because he’s been electric this year and deserves better than the rest of the shit around him. But everyone else? Guentzel isn’t on the Penguins anymore because everyone else couldn’t do their jobs. And that’s both players and coaches obviously.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Right, shipping off rental Guentzel doesn't make us sellers though. Where them trades Dubas?

 

[canadianguy77]

The only problem with this thinking - because it IS rational considering the extensions of Letang/Geno - is that "losing the best winger of X era of Sid's career" etc, talk - is that that winger was being required via his agent to land a (likely) 8 year deal of atrocious money.

How do we justify that after 6 years of playoff failure/no playoffs? We weren't winning with Jake here. Not this season not last... He wasn't changing the dynamics. He was just a guy that still performed pretty good and wasn't THE problem. But he wasn't a solution either - especially not going forward into his mid 30s.

I'll gladly take him back on a sensible 7 year deal don't get me wrong. But if he can get 9.5-10 in the market that just isn't going to work here. Frankly unless he has some miraculous post-season again I think his value has dropped with all the influx of goal scorers so there is certainly a chance. Idk. He was a case of damned if you do/don't imo. The real problem has been/will be the coaching and roster decisions until they make better choices with their money and staff/system.

Seems strange for Carolina of all teams to want someone like him though. They already have a lot of guys like him. It’s going to be extremely difficult for that roster to go the distance imo unless they have another move or 2 up their sleeve.

 

[molon labe]

Seems strange for Carolina of all teams to want someone like him though. They already have a lot of guys like him. It’s going to be extremely difficult for that roster to go the distance imo unless they have another move or 2 up their sleeve.

I think the conference is 110% up to the atlantic.

Florida, Toronto, Boston - in that order - with Tampa and Detroit behind them ALL rank over the metro this year if I were betting on it. But Carolina's 'behind the curtain' stats were that their top 6 is 15th or 16th in the league at scoring. That's a big, big hole come playoff time. If Jake can even get them 3 goals in a series that'll be huge.

I think the metro is the easiest path to a conference finals in YEARS. One of the reasons I've been so animated in my own right this year with regard to trading that opportunity just to appease Sullivan and his choices. Here we are though. League has been full of paper tigers for a few seasons now and we've squandered it with these nonsensical decisions.

But yeah - Guentzel doesn't take Carolina over the top against those first 3 atlantic teams imo.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, they absolutely gotta nuke the coaching staff and scouting depts this summer.

I'm still kinda shocked that a team with a bottom-5 prospect pool can trade the best player at the TDL to a team with a top-10, maybe top-5 prospect pool, and not walk away with a dramatic upgrade to their prospect pool.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I know nothing of these prospects but they look intriguing, especially Koivunen, who is playing with former Penguin Bjorkqvist (he can tell him all about how well the Penguins develop prospects). Then again, I'm old enough to remember when Beech, Lupaschuk and Sivek looked intriguing.

One thing I learned is that Carolina seems to have a pretty damn good prospect pool on top of all their young, talented NHLers. I forget what that looks like.