Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[HandshakeLine]

Getting more draft picks is how you develop diamonds in the rough.

It is downright bizarre that literally anyone is complaining about this deal, when a ton of people complaining are the same people who think the team stinks and should be rebuilding.

Yeah, how dare people not want to watch another season of horrible vets getting too much playing time?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, how dare people not want to watch another season of horrible vets getting too much playing time?

Your entertainment is irrelevant of whether this is a good move for the franchise or not.

This team has already made too many mistakes based on what the fans want anyway.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Your entertainment is irrelevant of whether this is a good move for the franchise or not.

Thanks Captain Sabremetrics. Find any sexy spreadsheets lately?

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, why not at least throw a look at some young players? Why not see if we can actually develop a diamond in the rough for once?


He absolutely blocks someone, just whoever it is is TBD. But think of how many games we suffered through an abysmal Carter-- it's not like we scratch underperforming vets around here.

There will be injuries, and if someone is just blowing the doors off in WBS they'll find a way to shove that player into the lineup.

When Jake was a prospect the Pens had zero issue with finding a way to insert him into the top six immediately. If we get someone dominating in WBS, they'll make room. Zero worry about that.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I think the move would be less foreboding if we had managed to trade Eller or Accari or Smith. But I don't think we'll actually trade anyone and we just added a horrible vet that Sullivan will not find it in himself to healthy scratch or demote even if his life depends on it.

Oh for sure. Dubas is shitting the bed by not being able to get rid of the dead weight for more picks and prospects if that's the direction he wants to go in. This Hayes trade though doesn't hurt anything either way though. Who cares what Sullivan does with him. If he plays well, great we can hopefully move him. If he sucks, great we are worse and get better draft positioning.

 

[Pancakes]

I think the move would be less foreboding if we had managed to trade Eller or Accari or Smith. But I don't think we'll actually trade anyone and we just added a horrible vet that Sullivan will not find it in himself to healthy scratch or demote even if his life depends on it.

At least we got a good pick for once for doing so instead of trading assets to get a guy Sullivan will misuse.

Agree that I hope we find a way to trade any or all of Eller/Acciari/Smith though. Add Jarry to that mix too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Thanks Captain Sabremetrics. Find any sexy spreadsheets lately?

If you don't find the team entertaining, don't watch them. It's really not difficult to do.

The team is making the necessary moves it needs to make to build for the future, which a ton of people in here have been screaming that this team needs to do. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

 

[Turin]

Washington just picked Petr Sikora. That’s the most BS EA generated name I’ve ever seen.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Yeah, how dare people not want to watch another season of horrible vets getting too much playing time?

I'm not saying I'm looking forward to watching this team shit the bed for another year. I'm just saying this isn't a unique position for a franchise to be in. Cycles happen. You're good, and then you're bad, and hopefully you're good again.

 

[Andy99]

I mean, why not at least throw a look at some young players? Why not see if we can actually develop a diamond in the rough for once?


He absolutely blocks someone, just whoever it is is TBD. But think of how many games we suffered through an abysmal Carter-- it's not like we scratch underperforming vets around here.

Because Mike Sullivan is our coach lol….

Seriously. I don’t mind the Hayes deal as much as I mind the poor drafting…the players he selected have very little upside and I doubt are solid NHL players if they make it at all…

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Of course there's not much to watch for next season. That was happening with our without Hayes. He literally doesn't change that at all. Who is he blocking exactly too? Ponomarev? Is he really somebody that's good enough to care if he gets blocked or not?

Hayes is at the point in his career where a handful of even OUR AHL guys could likely match his production/contributions and maybe we even develop a player out of it. For league minimum. I have no illusions about Pono, Poulin, etc. being world-beating prospects. But capable third/fourth liners... why not? That's hardly a huge ask even though some people especially in Pittsburgh for whatever reason act like playing on the third line requires some kind of advanced hockey degree.

So it's a bad move because it keeps the Pens boring? They're already boring af and non competitive. At least they got an asset to build towards the future with.

It's not even bad it's just predictable, unnecessary and is going to play right in to shit we already hate... which is this coach handing the lineup. And yes it's boring and I'm already bored before this.

So don’t do anything unless it’s a lottery pick? Rome wasn’t built in a day.

True. They DO need to find a way to at least offset all the asset flipping that has been done for years. Second round picks aren't worthless... just low percentage balls in the tank. I'm not ignorant of that. I just feel like there is some cope going on, here. Kevin Hayes really is a very bad player and he's going to be playing for a very bad coaching staff that will inevitably love him. I feel I cannot be blamed for not looking forward to that.

 

[Turin]

Kevin Hayes is not exciting but he’s getting underrated pretty hard here.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I mean, why not at least throw a look at some young players? Why not see if we can actually develop a diamond in the rough for once?

Dubas couldn’t get some deals done for younger players last season and said getting picks can help close those type of deals.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Hayes is at the point in his career where a handful of even OUR AHL guys could likely match his production/contributions and maybe we even develop a player out of it. For league minimum. I have no illusions about Pono, Poulin, etc. being world-beating prospects. But capable third/fourth liners... why not? That's hardly a huge ask even though some people especially in Pittsburgh for whatever reason act like playing on the third line requires some kind of advanced hockey degree.

I get that frustration, but at the end of the day those prospects are probably nothing burgers anyway. We aren't competing next year or the year after that no matter who's playing in our bottom 6, and the players Hayes is "blocking" won't be around when this team is ready to compete again.

 

[Pancakes]

It's not even bad it's just predictable, unnecessary and is going to play right in to shit we already hate... which is this coach handing the lineup. And yes it's boring and I'm already bored before this.

I just can't agree that it's unnecessary. Getting picks and young players is extremely necessary. Taking on questionable players to do so is an unfortunate side effect of having to do that.

Take your lumps now to have an enjoyable team later.

 

[Andy99]

Dubas couldn’t get some deals done for younger players last season and said getting picks can help close those type of deals.

And then he still doesn’t trade those picks/prospects for NHL ready young players…so WTF

 

[MrBurghundy]

And then he still doesn’t trade those picks/prospects for NHL ready young players…so WTF

Well yeah, that's where the disconnect is for sure. Among other things.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I get that frustration, but at the end of the day those prospects are probably nothing burgers anyway. We aren't competing next year or the year after that no matter who's playing in our bottom 6, and the players Hayes is "blocking" won't be around when this team is ready to compete again.

You're right!

But at least they aren't 3.5M dollar nothing burgers? It would be nice to start developing players to slot into depth roles BEFORE they get paid.

I dunno. We'll have to see what other moves are made if any. There are things that can be done to help offset this a bit re: trading out some other overpaid trash from last year's bottom six and hopefully that's done. I don't hate the idea of rolling with a young bottom six with a guy like Hayes as your one or one of like two older "mentor" type guys. But I suspect this is not the Mike Sullivan way.

 

[Pancakes]

One other note on Hayes. He is generally a boring player, but he does have pretty decent hands around the net, and is a huge body.

I think his net front presence will be a welcome addition on the powerplay even if it's just on PP2.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Also Hayes in an American 6'5 center. Half decent year and some team will easily give up another 2nd/3rd for him at the deadline in 2026.

 

[Turin]

One other note on Hayes. He is generally a boring player, but he does have pretty decent hands around the net, and is a huge body.

I think his net front presence will be a welcome addition on the powerplay even if it's just on PP2.

Also had a random glow up defensively this year.

 

[MrBurghundy]

You're right!

But at least they aren't 3.5M dollar nothing burgers? It would be nice to start developing players to slot into depth roles BEFORE they get paid.

I dunno. We'll have to see what other moves are made if any. There are things that can be done to help offset this a bit re: trading out some other overpaid trash from last year's bottom six and hopefully that's done. I don't hate the idea of rolling with a young bottom six with a guy like Hayes as your one or one of like two older "mentor" type guys. But I suspect this is not the Mike Sullivan way.

Sure, Dubas needs to make more moves. All I'm saying is that the reaction to this trade on these forums is absolutely pathetic. It's just not that big of a deal. We acquired a 2nd and gave up nothing but cap space on a team that's not going anywhere no matter who we bring in at any cap hit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn't be planning on getting any sort of return for Hayes in the future, at least as of right now. He didn't particularly have a strong year with St. Louis last year, his JFresh chart may look nice but his microstats were pretty ugly. He may have good on-ice results but he's not the one causing those results.

I think the only way you can get anything for Hayes is at the 2026 deadline if he puts up 2 ~30 point years in a row. Which is definitely doable, but he's already slow as shit and any decrease in his speed may make him completely unviable as a NHLer.

I do think comments about cluttering the bottom of the roster are entirely valid, which is a big reason why I was outspoken against the idea of bringing in Mikheyev. The corresponding move I'd like to see with this is Eller for a 3rd or 4th, because I'm pretty confident that Eller can bring back a 3rd or 4th right now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sure, Dubas needs to make more moves. All I'm saying is that the reaction to this trade on these forums is absolutely pathetic. It's just not that big of a deal. We acquired a 2nd and gave up nothing but cap space on a team that's not going anywhere no matter who we bring in at any cap hit.

You all seem to love it. So sorry for being "pathetic" I guess.

I just don't get it. Hayes seems like the exact kind of player this team has no real use for and has all the hallmarks of being way overused by the coach and a second round pick is the panacea. If they can clear out space in the bottom six to make some room this looks better. But can anyone really blame me for being extremely doubtful that's going to happen?

 

[MrBurghundy]

I know people are going to love listening to this.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807126890609627264