Post-Game Talk: Pens 2, Oilers 1: The Junior Player Edition

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The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,949
5,076
burgh
with 4 pucks going off the post, we were very lucky to come away with a win.....add in all the shots that just went wide, I can't see how anyone could say we are playing much of a defensive game. and no it wasn't the goalies fault.
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,617
5,074
How many times did we talk about the team needing structure after the fiascos under DB? Alot easier to open things up than have defense ingrained in a team.

I got no problem with MJ using the regular season to do that. We're winning doing it, so its not like we cant afford to. And you'll likely see more buy in as that trend continues.
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,617
5,074
with 4 pucks going off the post, we were very lucky to come away with a win.....add in all the shots that just went wide, I can't see how anyone could say we are playing much of a defensive game. and no it wasn't the goalies fault.

And we had an actual goal taken away. **** happens in a game. Teams get lucky.

The forwards are playing well defensively and covering up for the garbage play from our defense. If we opened things up, half our D still wouldnt be able to pass the puck and we'd be allowing more GA.
 

radapex

Registered User
Sep 21, 2012
7,766
528
Canada, Eh
Proof they didn't need a million dollar backup, even if zatkoff sucks. The way they play they can still eek out a win.

:thumbu:

They don't need a guy that can go in and start 30 games. Zatkoff will get his 15-20 games to give Fleury some nights off, and that's all he's needed for. Should an injury happen, we'll see Murray up and Zatkoff remain in the backup role.

It's tough watching Zatkoff in net, but he's cheap and he's getting the job done which is exactly what they need.
 

Boocock

Registered User
Feb 3, 2007
2,554
9
I like Fehr with Crosby. When's the last time our 5'11" star center played with someone over 6'1"?
 

Shaftception

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
4,095
1,658
I agree we might not be a 9-4 team and things still need to be done to get Crosby going but I don't think we're a 4-9 team or anything that extreme. Maybe like an 8-5 team or 7-6.

Yeah, our wins have been overly reliant on goaltending, but we've also been winning despite Crosby not producing and the PP being anemic. If that changes we'll be better than a 9-4 team.

How some people arrive at the wrong answer when they're clearly smart enough to recognize the correct equation is puzzling to me. You're absolutely right they're record isn't indicative of their actual play, but you almost certainly will be mistaken that it eventually will be if things would only start bouncing their way.

The offense is never going to "come around" or "wake up" and magically fix their offensive issues while retaining their smoke and mirrors staunch defensive play. They have no offense because they're overly favoring defense. One is creating the other. If they ever do start scoring more, it won't be because things finally clicked, it'll be because the coaching finally allowed it to happen.

The stars, who took the pens out behind the woodshed and who everyone is pointing to as an excuse for a couple of their losses in order to convince themselves to feel better about their record have given up 15 more goals than the pens. What a joke right? Real teams sacrifice everything for defense. Except they've scored 21 more goals in the process. Probably because they realize their roster advantage over other teams is in their forwards and thus are playing in a way to execute that advantage, and it's working. Or what about mtl and nyr? Both with similar defensive success but with far better offensive production. Coaching apparently doesn't have to be an all or nothing concept.

We'll probably never know if this team would actually be better or not by taking the restraints off the offense and seeing if that advantage could be greater than the disadvantage of a less insulated defense, because they're not going to as long as they keep winning. They kept playing this way despite losing so much they almost missed the playoffs at the end of last season, what possible evidence is there to suggest they're going to change just to try something different when they're actually winning now instead?

Also sorry if this came off too confrontational, used your quote as more of a springboard if anything, not directed at you.
 
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Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,712
8,155
Id take PH off Sid's line. Move Sprong up. Fehr becomes a good fit for those two.

If not that, something has to happen, Sid is just not getting the puck at all. We have two D-men who can move the puck well right now. And Sid has two guys on his line who cant skate the puck into the O-zone or get it to Sid with speed. Its dump and chase.

Yeah I agree Sid isn't getting the puck on the breakout or In transition in advantageous positions. Part of that is on the defense and part is on his wingers and some is systematic. Certainly Duper and Hornqvist with him is not helping. Fehr and Sprong would be really interesting there. That or Sprng at left wing with Hornqvist. Even Fehr on left and Bennett on the right could work.
 

SidDidNothingWrong

Beau's IcedCapp
Jan 2, 2014
2,284
9
We are the biggest sad sacks this side of the Atlantic.
We cry about luck at every turn.
Gee golly, we can't score against Rask and Lundqvist, force field hot goalie bad luck.
When we win it was good luck that they didn't score enough against us. lol.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,712
8,155
We are the biggest sad sacks this side of the Atlantic.
We cry about luck at every turn.
Gee golly, we can't score against Rask and Lundqvist, force field hot goalie bad luck.
When we win it was good luck that they didn't score enough against us. lol.

Who is we because the Pens used the force field argument but I don't hear the Pens saying they won because of luck. Hfboards pens fans are saying the latter not the former.
 

Ragamuffin Gunner

Lost in the Flood
Aug 15, 2008
35,024
7,337
Boston
I was confused by that. The awful, uninspired Pittsburgh Penguins are 9-4 sitting tied for 2nd in the division with Washington and just two points behind the Rangers. They've got the best GAA in the league and the offense & PP are finally starting to show some signs of life. Not only that, but 3 of their 4 losses were to the two best teams in the league - one to Montreal (1st, 25 points) and two to Dallas (2nd, 22 points).

This is exactly why you don't jump the gun and fire your coach 3 games into the season. This team, with it's lack of flashiness, is re-learning how to win hockey games. I see some people complaining about how this buys Johnston more time before being fired, but that's exactly what it should do because not only does he have this team winning hockey games but also playing a much more sound game fundamentally.

Everything Is Awesome!
 

Wes C Addle

Bernard Shakey
Jul 4, 2007
1,799
3
Allentown, Pa
The first part of the season from a scheduling standpoint is so unbalanced that I think it'll be tough to determine what this team is really going to be like until much later.

A quick look at the first half compared to the second

- 21 out of the first 41 are against the Western Conf which leaves only 7 West Conf games in the 2nd half

- 8 Divisional Games out of the 41 total in the first half (none against Flyers, Rangers and only 1 with NYI) vs 22 Divisional Games in the second half including 15 of their last 20 against the Division

With the Divisional playoff format and so few games against those teams until the calendar switches to 2016, we won't have much of a track record as to whether this team is going to fold against the division like they did last year or if they can find a way to be competitive.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
Do people honestly believe we're in an alright spot?

Sid, not only isn't scoring, looks like complete **** night in and night out. If not for Fleury playing damn-near Vezina hockey (and make no mistake, it's entirely Fleury, not the defense), we'd be completely ****ed. We give our goalies some pathetic goal support, and they've managed to bail us out thus far.

Wonder what's gonna happen if MAF comes back to Earth, and we have to rely more heavily on scoring goals and our blueliners--whom have all been varying degrees of horrible all season, save for Dumo. :laugh:

Things are not good. Things are not awesome. It's cool that we're winning, but unless we start scoring a Hell of a lot more, and we start to get the ****ing TOI distribution/scratches/lines/PP right, we're as big a team of paper tigers as you'll see. That doesn't even account for the fact that we're still a #2/3 d-man away from having some semblance of a legit blueline.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,840
21,394
I'll ***** more about the PP and stuff when we conquer the first hurdle; proper TOI allocation and lines. There is no way in the world Kunitz deserves to be in the lineup night in and night out. Especially at the expense of Sprong and Plotnikov most nights. We can't even get the lines or who to scratch correct. Sure, we demoted Kunitz to now bog down the third line--arguably our best line throughout the entirety of the early season. But he still seems to sneak his way into the top-6 far too frequently.

If the coach cannot use him properly, you have to mandate that he's scratched until he will accept a trade. There is no excuse for Kunitz to dress for games, and with Dupuis brand new "precautionary" developments, who knows if he'll ever play again. There's no reason whatsoever that Plotnikov and Sprong shouldn't be in the lineup 100% of the time from here on out.

Bang on.

MJ's made a bunch of downright moronic personnel decisions, so I have a hard time faulting the system for all our offensive woes.

We're cleaning up our own end better than we have in a long time. Not a lot of loose pucks get left around our goalie these days, and we seem to be putting a lot more emphasis on back pressure, which is nice to see.

Fix the stupid line-up choices, then evaluate the system. Scratch or trade Scuds and Kunitz, play the good young players who give a **** and can contribute something, keep Dupes away from Sid and Horny, and kick Letang off the top PP. Making sweeping judgements about a defensive system stifling this team when we've got so much dead weight shoehorned into prominent roles is a mistake, because Kunitz, Dupes, and Scuds would short-circuit the '80s Oilers if Sather used them the way MJ uses our beloved vets.
 

joeyjake5

Registered User
Feb 23, 2014
1,588
13
I hope all pens fans love NJD style hockey. Get use to it and get to love it. That's what you are seeing BORING< BORING devil hockey.
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
30,054
5,676
I'd try these for Sid combos without touching the Kunitz-Bones-Bennett good thing they have goin' on:

Perron-Sid-Horny
Fehr-Geno-Kessel

or

Fehr-Sid-Sprong
Sprong-Sid-Fehr

Any of those would be interesting to see what it gives you.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
I wouldn't care if we were resorting to Devils' hockey because it was our strong suit and we needed to in order to win.

We suck at defensive hockey. Our goalies have bailed us out big time, night in and night out.
 

Terrapin

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
9,365
1,405
Hard to argue against our record. But,

we are a horribly BORING team. No scoring, no hitting, no nothing.

Again, can't complain much about the record, but my God I'd rather watch just about anything
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
84,623
84,839
Redmond, WA
The overreactions on this site are hilarious. We're not winning the way I want to win, MJ needs fired! The team is 9-4 when a good chunk of the team (top-6, D outside of Dumoulin) is struggling. Yes, the insane save% of Fleury and Zatkoff isn't sustainable. However, neither are the struggles of the D or top-6. You guys really need some perspective, the reactions here are way too much.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,840
21,394
Also found this to be pretty neat:



It's almost like we should be playing him more, or something.

I wouldn't care if we were resorting to Devils' hockey because it was our strong suit and we needed to in order to win.

We suck at defensive hockey. Our goalies have bailed us out big time, night in and night out.

I don't think it's that cut-and-dried. MAF's been great, but the new commitment to backchecking and taking care of business around the net has made an impact too. It's pretty noticeable, IMO.

We can be a good two-way team. Scratch who needs to be scratched, give the kids a chance, and let Maatta find his sea legs.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
I don't really think any of the forwards have stood out to me defensively except for Geno. Sid's been pretty good from time to time, but not as consistently as Geno has. Fehr too, but it's been three games.

Our blueline is hot garbage, top to bottom. Credit to all you wily vets who recognized Dumo's potential though, he's been the lone bright spot. Everyone else has sucked; Letang, Maatta, Cole, and Scuderi and Lovejoy--but the last two are expected.
 

Fordy

Registered User
May 28, 2008
26,866
3,063
The overreactions on this site are hilarious. We're not winning the way I want to win, MJ needs fired! The team is 9-4 when a good chunk of the team (top-6, D outside of Dumoulin) is struggling. Yes, the insane save% of Fleury and Zatkoff isn't sustainable. However, neither are the struggles of the D or top-6. You guys really need some perspective, the reactions here are way too much.

why isn't it? it's been sustained since January
 
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