Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[ChaosAgent]

I would love Garland as a lower term alternative to Zucker.

I think if we traded Granlund for him we'd need to add though. Maybe a 2nd. I'm down.

 

[Zbynek]

Which is why I hope Kyle is going golfing the first week of July. Avoid filling out a roster through UFA as much as you can.

Dubas mentioned he's connected with every team in the NHL in the press conference (well, I would hope so). So I want to believe he's going to pick up the phone a few times over the next month. A trade is where we need the solution at goalie.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I used to really want to bring back Zucker, but I've pretty much completely moved on from him to go after Bunting instead. Bunting is a good bit younger and has way less mileage on him (only 187 NHL games compared to 628 for Zucker). Both will probably cost around $5 million a year, so I don't think the cost will be that different.

If you can get Bunting for the same contract that the Penguins gave Rakell, I'd be really happy with the signing. If they gave that same deal to Zucker, I'd be furious.

 

[SEALBound]

I could see Zucker taking a pretty steep discount to stick around in Pittsburgh. He's loved by the coach and the lockerroom, and the team didn't ship him out when he was struggling with injury for years, so I'm sure he's appreciative of that.

Kinda what I was thinking. Not a bad situation for him here although I can see several cup contenders wanting to bolster their lineup for him. Once we move on, he instantly becomes out biggest need. So the replacement better be in place.

Apparently Yamamoto is a buyout candidate this summer. He's only 24 and was dealing with a neck issue this year. I'd give him a prove it type deal. Could be good on the third line and maybe you can squeeze some more growth out of him

I can't figure out if he's Sprong or Puljujarvi. Does that next team turn him into a 20g scorer or does the next get exactly who he is now? So tough to tell.

I think there will be a couple buyout and/or non-QO'd guys to look at. There were some fantastic signings these last two seasons from those groups. If we are looking to rebuild on a budget, it's a plausible route to go. I'm really made we didn't snag Kubalik when we had the chance. Either via trade or FA.

I used to really want to bring back Zucker, but I've pretty much completely moved on from him to go after Bunting instead. Bunting is a good bit younger and has way less mileage on him (only 187 NHL games compared to 628 for Zucker). Both will probably cost around $5 million a year, so I don't think the cost will be that different.

If you can get Bunting for the same contract that the Penguins gave Rakell, I'd be really happy with the signing. If they gave that same deal to Zucker, I'd be furious.

I think he has the potential to be a steady 20-30-50pt player. I do worry about the little bit of antics that may have drawn the ire of the refs, similar to Steve Downie but if we move on from Zucker, Bunting is nearly a must.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

If you can get Bunting for the same contract that the Penguins gave Rakell, I'd be really happy with the signing. If they gave that same deal to Zucker, I'd be furious.

The important thing is that Zucker hasn't lost his wheels or motor at all. So if they do re-sign him, he will be fast, and you can be furious.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think he has the potential to be a steady 20-30-50pt player. I do worry about the little bit of antics that may have drawn the ire of the refs, similar to Steve Downie but if we move on from Zucker, Bunting is nearly a must.

Those kind of players are the kind of players you hate on other teams but you want on your team. Bunting is a little shit, but he doesn't play a dirty game at all. His pest antics are a huge part of why teams should want him.

The important thing is that Zucker hasn't lost his wheels or motor at all. So if they do re-sign him, he will be fast, and you can be furious.

Uh, Zucker has noticeably lost a step from where he was in Minnesota. If he still had his speed that he had in Minnesota, he'd be a substantially better player than just a 25 goal, 50 point guy.

 

[Extra Texture]

Esposito is a great case study too. Sold at the absolute right time there for Hossa and Dupuis.

Yup, that's another one that management nailed the timing of. Of course, back then Waddell was getting absolutely hammered on every trade as Thrashers GM, so I'm glad we took our pound of flesh on that one.

On a sidenote, I remember when he fell into our lap in that draft, after getting the "potential 1 OA skill" scouting reports before the draft. I thought "oh shit, we've got Malkin, Crosby, Staal and now we're going to add a 4th phenom?"

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Uh, Zucker has noticeably lost a step from where he was in Minnesota. If he still had his speed that he had in Minnesota, he'd be a substantially better player than just a 25 goal, 50 point guy.

Uh, Zucker has always been a 25/50 guy. He has one season better than that. An aberration. That's it. And he's just coming off his second-best goal scoring season of his career.

In fact, there's a better argument that he's a 20/40 guy.

That's why people like me were against his acquisition in the first place.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Uh, Zucker has always been a 25/50 guy. He has one season better than that. An aberration. That's it. And he's just coming off his second-best goal scoring season of his career.

In fact, there's a better argument that he's a 20/40 guy.

That's why people like me were against his acquisition in the first place.

1. Scoring is way higher today than it was a few years ago.
2. He plays with substantially better linemates than what he had in Minnesota.

If Zucker was still the same that he was in Minnesota, he would be producing a lot more because he's in a substantially better position to produce with the Penguins today than he was in Minnesota in like 2018.

 

[Gurglesons]

I used to really want to bring back Zucker, but I've pretty much completely moved on from him to go after Bunting instead. Bunting is a good bit younger and has way less mileage on him (only 187 NHL games compared to 628 for Zucker). Both will probably cost around $5 million a year, so I don't think the cost will be that different.

If you can get Bunting for the same contract that the Penguins gave Rakell, I'd be really happy with the signing. If they gave that same deal to Zucker, I'd be furious.

I wouldn’t give Bunting the Rakell deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In 2016-2017, Zucker had 22 goals and 47 points in 79 games, with 20 goals and 44 points at 5v5. He was 10th in the NHL in 5v5 points that year. NHL goals per game was at 2.77. In 2022-2023, Zucker had 27 goals and 48 points in 78 games, with 24 goals and 37 points at 5v5. He was 69th (nice) in the NHL in 5v5 points that year. NHL goals per game was at 3.18.

He's in a position to produce way more due to being in a higher scoring era, with goal scoring up well over 10% from where it was in 2016-2017, and playing with way better linemates than what he had in Minnesota. Despite that, his "resurgence" season wasn't even him matching what he did in a normal season.

Zucker did have a solid year last year, but I think he was graded on a curve more than based on his overall performance. He has had a noticeable step back from where he was in his normal years in Minnesota. I don't think he's a fast player at all at this point, he's more of a net front grinder with a good shot. And I think Zucker has realized this about his game as well, which is why he had 197 hits in 2022-2023 compared to 73 hits in 2016-2017.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

How did his PP time this year compare to the 64 point season?
Don't like looking up stats on phone...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wouldn’t give Bunting the Rakell deal.

Why? It's pretty much the going rate for 50 point 2nd line wingers like Bunting.

How did his PP time this year compare to the 64 point season?
Don't like looking up stats on phone...

180 PP minutes in 2017-2018, 126 PP minutes in 2022-2023.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Yes, I want and expect Bunting to sign with the Pens.

No, I would not give him the Rakell deal. Something in my head about Quality of Linemates. As well as time in the NHL/being a late bloomer. Though the Hockey Comparison website I use shows the Rakell deal being fair based on point shares.

After typing that, I guess I'd take Bunting on a Rakell deal. But I'd feel better about it if it were closer to $4.5M.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why? It's pretty much the going rate for 50 point 2nd line wingers like Bunting.



180 PP minutes in 2017-2018, 126 PP minutes in 2022-2023.

Bunting got a lot of his production the PP this year. He’s also somewhat of a liability.

I like him, but I’d be more targeting 3.75 - 4.5 if he is getting a long term deal like Rakell got.

 

[Pancakes]

I'm a little leery of Bunting. Played a lot of his minutes with Toronto's star players. He played fine in those minutes from what I can tell, but I'm somewhat worried that he's a product of those guys.

You'd better be damned sure he can continue that here if you hand him a contract.

 

[Jacob]

Bunting had 7 goals and 3 assists on the PP. Seems okay to me. 39 ES points.

I still prefer Barbashev but he’s earning more money with each round.

 

[Peat]

Bunting is only signing the Rakell deal if he really likes the GM, or the GM has incriminating photos. He too is a top 10 point producer in this UFA class, and he has a recent 60 point season and is only 27 to boot.

I am clearly going to reiterate this point a lot, so - this year's UFA class looks like the best part of it ran down the crack of its momma's ass and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress. Since UFA prices are never pleasant at the best of times and we're supposedly just around the corner from real cap raises, I think we're going to see some absolutely wild deals handed out.


Also Bunting's 5v5 production was fine. Don't see it as a reason to knock him. He's obviously a third wheel rather than a driver, but the moment Sid and Geno can't do things with third wheels who do actually produce points, it's all over anyway.

 

[Andy99]

I’d prefer Barbashev and Engvall over Bunting just because of our lack of finishing but we should be after any of those three…and RFAs like Meier if he doesn’t sign w NJD

 

[AuroraBorealis]

180 PP minutes in 2017-2018, 126 PP minutes in 2022-2023.

Hm, not as bad of a disparity as I expected.
So he got 7 more PPPs there with the extra 54 minutes. Surely PP1 there the whole time though.

I wonder what his empty net point situation was there. He was benched for that here.

Still, we got his 2nd best ES year here it seems. He was really cooking in 2017-18.

 

[SEALBound]

Yes, I want and expect Bunting to sign with the Pens.

No, I would not give him the Rakell deal. Something in my head about Quality of Linemates. As well as time in the NHL/being a late bloomer. Though the Hockey Comparison website I use shows the Rakell deal being fair based on point shares.

After typing that, I guess I'd take Bunting on a Rakell deal. But I'd feel better about it if it were closer to $4.5M.

Yeah but his quality of teammates here will also be high. It suggest that he can play well with star players which is always easier said than done. What would we say about Jake's ability as a LW? Is he ONLY the product of Sid or is he actually good?

Bunting got a lot of his production the PP this year. He’s also somewhat of a liability.

I like him, but I’d be more targeting 3.75 - 4.5 if he is getting a long term deal like Rakell got.

Oh no, a player that can actually produce on the power play! What would we EVER do with a player like that!?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Bunting is only signing the Rakell deal if he really likes the GM, or the GM has incriminating photos. He too is a top 10 point producer in this UFA class, and he has a recent 60 point season and is only 27 to boot.

I am clearly going to reiterate this point a lot, so - this year's UFA class looks like the best part of it ran down the crack of its momma's ass and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress. Since UFA prices are never pleasant at the best of times and we're supposedly just around the corner from real cap raises, I think we're going to see some absolutely wild deals handed out.


Also Bunting's 5v5 production was fine. Don't see it as a reason to knock him. He's obviously a third wheel rather than a driver, but the moment Sid and Geno can't do things with third wheels who do actually produce points, it's all over anyway.

The PIMs are a bit of a concern for me, but he's a lot better defensively than Zuck to compensate for that.
I'm also worried about a regression after he played with Matthews during the 60 goal year, and got his hype off that.

Think I still want Garland more. He's a proven scorer in bad situations.

 

[Jacob]

I’d prefer Barbashev and Engvall over Bunting just because of our lack of finishing but we should be after any of those three…and RFAs like Meier if he doesn’t sign w NJD

Engvall would be cool. He’s at about 30 ES points and I don’t think he’s played consistently in the top 6 either. Also a year younger than Bunting and Barbashev. Nice to have some size in the top 6, and he can fly too. Probably a lot cheaper as well.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Oh no, a player that can actually produce on the power play! What would we EVER do with a player like that!?

He may not get the spot here, right. It's Mike Sullivan.
What these wingers do in other situations should be our primary focus.

But if Jake's gone next year then maybe that door opens up.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the reality is a team with our cap space should be more focused on filling out our top six by taking advantage of cap strapped teams like the Kings, Stars, Panthers and Boston then signing any UFA deals.

He may not get the spot here, right. It's Mike Sullivan.
What these wingers do in other situations should be our primary focus.

But if Jake's gone next year then may e that door opens up.

Exactly. I’d actually be more inclined to pay Bunting more if I knew he’d be used as a net front.