Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Night Shift]

Throwing huge money at goaltenders and sitting back smugly and thinking you just did something smart is a very like... 90s way of thinking.

Or it might get you somewhere. See FLA

As @Peat said. Bob is a perfect example of why I’d target Markstrom and Gibson over Helle.



So you think the way to improving this team is spending a ton on bottom six players and letting Letang, Rutta and Ruhwedel be our RH depth?



Yes. And sign them as cheap as possible and don’t give a shit about term.

I'll take Marksteom too

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Or it might get you somewhere. See FLA

I mean... eventually. I don't think Bob is a good example of that working. I agree that it really just illustrates that these guys are all over the map and you don't over commit to any of them.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Throwing huge money at goaltenders and sitting back smugly and thinking you just did something smart is a very like... 90s way of thinking.

It's slightly better than throwing the kitchen sink at Mike Rathje I guess?

 

[Gurglesons]

Throwing huge money at goaltenders and sitting back smugly and thinking you just did something smart is a very like... 90s way of thinking.

It’s funny I was advocating for Bob as an off season addition and everyone said I was dumb.

Value of: - Bob to PIT at 50% in the off season.

I don’t think we’ll have a problem signing Jarry. Zucker and Dumo are both in their contract years and we probably won’t sign both of them. The cap is also going up at least $1 mil next season which will make it no problem. Also, Bob is not worth $5mil let alone $10mil. Especially not when...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It’s funny I was advocating for Bob as an off season addition and everyone said I was dumb.

Would have with (fairly substantial) retention.

Otherwise 10ish million dollars for ANY goaltender is batshit.

 

[Night Shift]

I mean... eventually. I don't think Bob is a good example of that working. I agree that it really just illustrates that these guys are all over the map and you don't over commit to any of them.

I'm just tired of being closed minded about it.

You and I both lived through the 90s and remember how important the position was. And teans going out and paying for it.

As the years went by (and as the game progressed) we learned to not prioritize G because it became arguably a less important position given the rule changes and that paying for shit can work and you can get by.

I'm just tired of being closed mined and not considering it.

Plus... f***.. As a kid it was my favorite position growing up, I played it on my local roller league.. I looked up to Richter, Brouduer, Hasek, Roy, Hextall, Barasso,..i can go on

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm just tired of being closed minded about it.

You and I both lived through the 90s and remember how important the position was. And teans going out and paying for it.

As the years went by (and as the game progressed) we learned to not prioritize G because it became arguably a less important position given the rule changes and that paying for shit can work and you can get by.

I'm just tired of being closed mined and not considering it

Was it that important? The best goalies in the league won how many cups in the 90s?

Roy and Brodeur won 3.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm just tired of being closed minded about it.

You and I both lived through the 90s and remember how important the position was. And teans going out and paying for it.

As the years went by (and as the game progressed) we learned to not prioritize G because it became arguably a less important position given the rule changes and that paying for shit can work and you can get by.

I'm just tired of being closed mined and not considering it

Not to sound like some kind of chiding dad but wishing things away rarely works.

Goaltending seems to be very homogenized. And back in the 90s you were allowed to waterski guys all over the ice. And the position has always been very team dependent. Like I always say you don't even have to take my word... just check the pay structure of the "top" goaltenders (whatever that even means anymore) versus skaters. There's a reason for that and smarter people than me are aware of it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Poehling and DOC should be given full time NHL spots on the 4th line. I think the FO should give Sully the components to make that shutdown, minute munching 3rd line to take pressure off of the top-6 and give the 4th line over to younger guys/prospects with room to move up if they earn it through play.

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Barbashev-Geno-Rust
????
DOC-Poehling-Puustinen

Fire Granlund into the sun (figure out how to get a team to take him, or buy him out if the asking price is too high) and perma-scratch Carter because he can eat shit. No idea how you find that 3rd line, or who to target. Maybe ROR if he's willing to take a hefty discount (he won't).

The blueline's whatever. Get some LD to play with Petry and let POJ and Smith battle it out in camp/pre-season to get the bottom pairing role.

My wild, out of touch with reality idea is to try and snag Vejmelka and either Crouse with retention or Schmaltz from the Yotes somehow.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Spending big money on goalies makes no sense. You should be paying about $5 million for your starter and just be targeting a guy who is reliable, not amazing. You want a goalie who will consistently give you solid results and will play well enough to not be the reason you lose in the playoffs.

I like using Frederik Andersen when he was in Toronto for what I'd call the "ideal" starting goalie today. He made only $5 million a year and mostly gave Toronto a .915ish save% in both the regular season and playoffs. He was a workhorse that gave consistently solid results and showed up in the playoffs. That's all I think teams should want from goalies.

I actually don't know who would fall in that category today, there aren't a ton of examples of just solid goalies playing 60+ games anymore. I think Kuemper is probably the best example I can think of right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think Poehling and DOC should be given full time NHL spots on the 4th line. I think the FO should give Sully the components to make that shutdown, minute munching 3rd line to take pressure off of the top-6 and give the 4th line over to younger guys/prospects with room to move up if they earn it through play.

Jake-Sid-Rakell
Barbashev-Geno-Rust
????
DOC-Poehling-Puustinen

Fire Granlund into the sun (figure out how to get a team to take him, or buy him out if the asking price is too high) and perma-scratch Carter because he can eat shit. No idea how you find that 3rd line, or who to target. Maybe ROR if he's willing to take a hefty discount (he won't).

The blueline's whatever. Get some LD to play with Petry and let POJ and Smith battle it out in camp/pre-season to get the bottom pairing role.

My wild, out of touch with reality idea is to try and snag Vejmelka and either Crouse with retention or Schmaltz from the Yotes somehow.

No chance at Crouse. Schmaltz maybe.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I also have it out for goaltenders a bit because unlike some of you former goaltenders... I played forward and my favorite thing in the whole world was to set up and score goals. And you bastard goaltenders tried to keep me away from the things I loved.

 

[Night Shift]

Was it that important? The best goalies in the league won how many cups in the 90s?

Roy and Brodeur won 3.

You forgot others who also won in the 90s Richter, Barasso, Hasek, Osgood, Vernon. Beezer and Cujo were also next tier teams back then teams were pining for because they couldn't get the very top. Cujo never won but when he was young, contending teams thought they had a chance with given what he did in Edmonton.

But He went to Toronto.. Lmao

 

[Gurglesons]

Spending big money on goalies makes no sense. You should be paying about $5 million for your starter and just be targeting a guy who is reliable, not amazing. You want a goalie who will consistently give you solid results and will play well enough to not be the reason you lose in the playoffs.

I like using Frederik Andersen when he was in Toronto for what I'd call the "ideal" starting goalie today. He made only $5 million a year and mostly gave Toronto a .915ish save% in both the regular season and playoffs. He was a workhorse that gave consistently solid results and showed up in the playoffs. That's all I think teams should want from goalies.

I actually don't know who would fall in that category today, there aren't a ton of examples of just solid goalies playing 60+ games anymore. I think Kuemper is probably the best example I can think of right now.

Markstrom
Gibson
Ullmark

Are the three I would target that I think you can get for like a 3rd and a 5th in the right scenario.

After that I would target…

Vej
Ukka Pekka
Hill

You forgot others who also won in the 90s Richter, Barasso, Hasek, Osgood, Vernon. Beezer and Cujo were also next tier teams back then teams were pining for because they couldn't get the very top. Cujo never won but when he was young, contending teams thought they had a chance with given what he did in Edmonton.

But He went to Toronto.. Lmao

Belfour is the only player you listed that was a Vezina winner in the 90s and he won it six years removed from his cup.

Hasek didn’t win a cup in the 90s.

If anything that list shows why you should go with a player like Gibson or Markstrom. They have a history of being good goaltenders, not great ones but could easily go on a run.

 

[Night Shift]

Spending big money on goalies makes no sense. You should be paying about $5 million for your starter and just be targeting a guy who is reliable, not amazing. You want a goalie who will consistently give you solid results and will play well enough to not be the reason you lose in the playoffs.

I like using Frederik Andersen when he was in Toronto for what I'd call the "ideal" starting goalie today. He made only $5 million a year and mostly gave Toronto a .915ish save% in both the regular season and playoffs. He was a workhorse that gave consistently solid results and showed up in the playoffs. That's all I think teams should want from goalies.

I actually don't know who would fall in that category today, there aren't a ton of examples of just solid goalies playing 60+ games anymore. I think Kuemper is probably the best example I can think of right now.

2 years ago I might agree. Ive changed my mind given the the fact both Florida goalies are paid very well for 4 straight finals

Markstrom
Gibson
Ullmark

Are the three I would target that I think you can get for like a 3rd and a 5th in the right scenario.

After that I would target…

Vej
Ukka Pekka
Hill



Belfour is the only player you listed that was a Vezina winner in the 90s.

Hasek didn’t win a cup in the 90s.

Hasek later won with the wings right? Eddie the Eagle I totally remember. I knew I was forgetting some others

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Lukewarm, potentially cold take; I don't know that it really f***ing matters who this team's next goalie is as long as the forwards are as lax about tracking guys or playing defensively and the blueline's as piss-weak around the net as they've been since, well, forever.

Sure, you don't want a headcase who is super inconsistent and injury prone like Jarry or Murray, but anybody that comes here is likely to see their numbers drop off a bit, if not a lot, because of the nature of this team and its coach.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Markstrom
Gibson
Ullmark

Are the three I would target that I think you can get for like a 3rd and a 5th in the right scenario.

After that I would target…

Vej
Ukka Pekka
Hill

Ullmark fits but none of the rest of those guys fits. Ullmark would be the dream but I seriously doubt Boston would ever consider trading him here.

I don't want to go dumpster diving for a reclamation project or try out a scratch off lottery ticket that may end up giving you great value. I want a solid and reliable starter. I don't want to spend the assets or money on an elite goalie, I just want someone solid and reliable.

 

[Night Shift]

Sure, you don't want a headcase who is super inconsistent and injury prone like Jarry or Murray, but anybody that comes here is likely to see their numbers drop off a bit, if not a lot, because of the nature of this team and its coach.

Definitely get this. But I also think a strong netminder and someone the team feels comfortable with on and off the ice will do wonders. Its all about good chemistry.

Ullmark fits but none of the rest of those guys fits. Ullmark would be the dream but I seriously doubt Boston would ever consider trading him here.

I don't want to go dumpster diving for a reclamation project or try out a scratch off lottery ticket that may end up giving you great value. I want a solid and reliable starter. I don't want to spend the assets or money on an elite goalie, I just want someone solid and reliable.

Granland and the 14th? I know I told you in another thread I wouldn't trade the 14th, but for a Starter I would.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Definitely get this. But I also think a strong netminder and someone the team feels comfortable with on and off the ice will do wonders. Its all about good chemistry.



Granland and the 14th?

All I'm hoping for is a guy to not come in and f*** things up on the reg. Would be a nice change of pace from the past half decade.

Now, am I talking about the goalie or the FO hires? (both)

 

[Night Shift]

All I'm hoping for is a guy to not come in and f*** things up on the reg. Would be a nice change of pace from the past half decade.

Now, am I talking about the goalie or the FO hires? (both)

Thats all I'm saying. I think people would be really suprised having a quality well paid goalie that is not Fleury can (maybe could have.. done wonders here) Maybe people get tripped up because of some of Flowers failures over the years so that when discussing cap it gets overlooked.

 

[Bishop7979]

As @Peat said. Bob is a perfect example of why I’d target Markstrom and Gibson over Helle.



So you think the way to improving this team is spending a ton on bottom six players and letting Letang, Rutta and Ruhwedel be our RH depth?



Yes. And sign them as cheap as possible and don’t give a shit about term.

I had mentioned in a original post I was responding to that I would bring in ryan graves for the second pairing and bring up smith full time on the 3rd. Graves is younger that petry, more mobile and at 6-5, plays a two good twoway game with some bite. he did well paired with Marino this year and I think he’d work welll with especially if paired with poj. Rutta is perfect to pair with smith on the 3rd, he played well when healthy and was the dumo type presence for hedman when he left TB.

Ruh is under all six of those guys, and friedman, on the depth chart at this point.

 

[Night Shift]

I also have it out for goaltenders a bit because unlike some of you former goaltenders... I played forward and my favorite thing in the whole world was to set up and score goals. And you bastard goaltenders tried to keep me away from the things I loved.

And I had my shutouts back in the day frustrating my opponents. So I was that guy you were up on my grill, no wonder we don't see eye to eye on my favorite position

I also played RW when on ice, but honestly dude, I was a better goalie. I was too focused and too passionate that I preformed better as a G in my day

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And I had my shutouts back in the day frustrating my opponents. So I was that guy you were up on my grill, no wonder we don't see eye to eye on my favorite position

I was never really one to get in people's faces when I played. I save all my best anger for myself.

Except for once. Right after getting Hextall'd by the opposing goaltender.

...meaning I took a two-hander to the back of the legs. Not that I was badly mismanaged for several years culminating in a giant wet fart.

 

[Peat]

It’s funny I was advocating for Bob as an off season addition and everyone said I was dumb.

Value of: - Bob to PIT at 50% in the off season.

I don’t think we’ll have a problem signing Jarry. Zucker and Dumo are both in their contract years and we probably won’t sign both of them. The cap is also going up at least $1 mil next season which will make it no problem. Also, Bob is not worth $5mil let alone $10mil. Especially not when...

forums.hfboards.com

Worse regular season save percentage than Jarry. Got to think he'd have never had the opportunity for those playoff heroics here.

*pause* Tbh, you might be able to get him for 50% this offseason.

 

[Night Shift]

I was never really one to get in people's faces when I played. I save all my best anger for myself.

Except for once. Right after getting Hextall'd by the opposing goaltender.

...meaning I took a two-hander to the back of the legs. Not that I was badly mismanaged for several years culminating in a giant wet fart.

I was utter trash as a Dman and Center. There's that. Wing at best but.. Plus I'm a weirdo and us weirdos are better goalies.