Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Pancakes]

I don't think Jake re-signing is a positive for this team. As soon as Sid slows down and/or retires, you're gonna have a $9 million AAV paperweight with a super restrictive NTC in Jake.

For clarification; I fully expect him to be kept, re-signed, and be around until he's like 36. I just think that's the wrong avenue to take and will end up biting this team in the ass. /shrug

Not ideal, but the thought of moving him for like a 8th overall is pretty meh too. I'd rather keep him for that sort of return unless we look totally awful next year.

Depends what the return is…let’s say NJD decides it can’t sign Bratt or Sharangovich, obviously two different quality of player, and think they can get a better deal on Jake long term …they’re in their prime now…what if the Pens traded Jake and second round pick next year for Bratt’s rights, or NJD traded Sharangovich + 1st for Jake…that might improve the Pens…I like Jake but he’s on the downside

Sharangovich is nowhere near worth Jake, even with a first (a late one at that) attached.

Bratt would be great, but I doubt he'd want to sign here instead of NJ.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d rather just trade Jake for another star player if we are going to move him versus future. Jenner was the best one I’ve heard of so far.

 

[Pancakes]

I’d rather just trade Jake for another star player if we are going to move him versus future. Jenner was the best one I’ve heard of so far.

Yeah, a Hossa for Heatley thing to change the dynamic of the team would be fine by me. Or Neal for Hornqvist, etc.

If Winnipeg wants to do really shake up their team maybe they'd move Ehlers or Connor in some kind of Jake deal. Probably not, but those are the types of those deals worth considering.

Again though, gotta realize that Jake loves it here, and has been quite good here. It's risky to move him out considering the likelihood of him re-signing. You better be sure the guy you're getting wants to be here for a bit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think if this team ever decided to move on from Jake, the best thing they could do is get a haul of assets for the future. I don't think you're gonna improve on the here and now with a Jake trade, and I say that as someone who doesn't think very highly of Jake anymore. If/when he's dealt, and hopefully it's within the next like 9 months, the best return is gonna be something akin to the Staal deal where the Pens end up with a roster player (ideally better than Sutter), a top-10 pick, and a very good prospect who ends up being an impact player for the team for years to come.

Not ideal, but the thought of moving him for like a 8th overall is pretty meh too. I'd rather keep him for that sort of return unless we look totally awful next year.

Sharangovich is nowhere near worth Jake, even with a first (a late one at that) attached.

Bratt would be great, but I doubt he'd want to sign here instead of NJ.

I just think we're heading into waterfall territory. Once Jake signs an extension, he's no longer tradeable, let alone for anything worth a damn. Think Rust, but wasting far more value as an asset, imo.

 

[Zbynek]

Linus Ullmark for POJ + 2nd was thrown around on the Trade board. Ullmark and his $5 million cap hit for 2 more years matches up to our window. Would be the Penguins first Vezina goalie since Barrasso. Assuming he beats Sorokin this year but I think he will.

I am still skeptical of Dubas but if he comes on board and gets us an Ullmark/Helle level goalie then I won't complain. But looking at his track record on goalie that may be a pipe dream.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm a fan of Ullmark, but I think playing on that team did a whole lot of elevating of Ullmark the player. I don't really think Ullmark would come here and be anything close to the guy he was in Boston during the RS.

I don't think there's a goalie option out there short of Saros or Hellebuyck (and they're extremely unrealistic for this team) who comes in and just plays at an elite level with the skaters they'll have in front of them.

If I had to single out a goalie target, I'd try to snag Vejmelka from the Coyotes. Maybe as part of a blockbuster package with Crouse or Schmaltz--ideally with some salary retain on the forwards. You're looking at a pretty big price in that case, but it may be worth it. /shrug

 

[Andy99]

How do either of those deals improve the Penguins?

Do you think Bratt is better than Jake?

He’s close and will be in a few years

 

[Andy99]

Not ideal, but the thought of moving him for like a 8th overall is pretty meh too. I'd rather keep him for that sort of return unless we look totally awful next year.

Sharangovich is nowhere near worth Jake, even with a first (a late one at that) attached.

Bratt would be great, but I doubt he'd want to sign here instead of NJ.

The issue is that Bratt is restricted for another year and Jake only has one year left on his deal… both teams take a risk the other player won’t want to sign, unless extensions are agreed to…

Sharangovich was on a great trajectory when he was moved to the third line by NJ and had his ice time inexplicably cut…he’s somewhat of a projection but that’s why he’ll be available…he played really well with Hughes the year before…I think he’s do great, probably 50 points, playing in the top six with Sid or G…even if we don’t trade Jake, we should look to trade for him…he’d be an awesome Zucker replacement (not saying they play the same style)…we’d start getting younger

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Potentially scalding hot take; away from Sid, Jake's probably closer to a 60-65pt guy who is pretty much terrible defensively. I don't think he's the franchise linchpin people make him out to be. He's just a good to very good player, but he's not elite and he's not a guy you hang on to at all costs. He's the definition of a sidecar winger, imo.

I'm not saying dump him for scraps, but the team should absolutely shop the dude and move him if they can get a deal that makes sense in the here and now, or with an eye to the future. Paying the dude $9 million or so long term is gonna be a huge mistake, imo.

 

[eXile3]

Potentially scalding hot take; away from Sid, Jake's probably closer to a 60-65pt guy who is pretty much terrible defensively. I don't think he's the franchise linchpin people make him out to be. He's just a good to very good player, but he's not elite and he's not a guy you hang on to at all costs. He's the definition of a sidecar winger, imo.

I'm not saying dump him for scraps, but the team should absolutely shop the dude and move him if they can get a deal that makes sense in the here and now, or with an eye to the future. Paying the dude $9 million or so long term is gonna be a huge mistake, imo.

There were times in the last two years that Jake carried Sid.

Some how Jakes become the most underrated player on this team.

The worst part is if he was 6’1” 195 lbs he would be worshipped.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Its a shame that Gaudreau wasnt a FA this year. If he was willing to sign in Columbus, I cant imagine he would say no to the Pens. Pens could easily fit him in this year as well.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah Gaudreau picking Columbus was completely outta left field and made no sense to me. It probably came down to taxes or something, because the Blue Jackets are awful and aren't gonna be competitive any time soon.

 

[66-30-33]

I’d rather just trade Jake for another star player if we are going to move him versus future. Jenner was the best one I’ve heard of so far.

Jenner would be nice.

 

[Peat]

I am open to trading Guentzel because they're probably not winning next year and probably shouldn't pick up his next contract.

If we are somehow thinking we're winning next year, the fact Guentzel's playoff performance has been an issue for 3 of the 4 last stabs means I'm open to trading him from that perspective too. (Incidentally, based on this logic, I wouldn't have touched Johnny Gaudreau with a barge pole).

It would probably suck from the perspective of having a fun regular season... but I don't know it would be fatal. I'd also happily subtract him from the power play. Losing him next to Sid would suck, but losing him from the power play might just be a plus.

I don't think you'd get a great return but long term an okay return still makes the team stronger. It's just about being able to justify the move based on next season.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Potentially scalding hot take; away from Sid, Jake's probably closer to a 60-65pt guy who is pretty much terrible defensively. I don't think he's the franchise linchpin people make him out to be. He's just a good to very good player, but he's not elite and he's not a guy you hang on to at all costs. He's the definition of a sidecar winger, imo.

I'm not saying dump him for scraps, but the team should absolutely shop the dude and move him if they can get a deal that makes sense in the here and now, or with an eye to the future. Paying the dude $9 million or so long term is gonna be a huge mistake, imo.

He's no worse with Malkin historically. He'd do well with most top 6 Centers I think. He's just got the offensive awareness to adjust to different linemates.
I could see him putting up fewer ESP's elsewhere, but more PPP's. Don't think we use him particularly well on the PP. Another team could get him more puck touches, and maybe put him on the right wall instead of a position he's not suited for, like net-front.
Might not get those sweet empty net points under a different coach that trusts him less.

But yeah, all in all we agree. 9 mil is overkill. Maybe if he was really solid 2-way then you consider it, but that's just not the case.

 

[ChaosAgent]

He's no worse with Malkin historically. He'd do well with most top 6 Centers I think. He's just got the offensive awareness to adjust to different linemates.
I could see him putting up fewer ESP's elsewhere, but more PPP's. Don't think we use him particularly well on the PP. Another team could get him more puck touches, and maybe put him on the right wall instead of a position he's not suited for, like net-front.
Might not get those sweet empty net points under a different coach that trusts him less.

But yeah, all in all we agree. 9 mil is overkill. Maybe if he was really solid 2-way then you consider it, but that's just not the case.

He's a very flawed powerplay player especially here. The problem is we can't seem to remove him from it and certainly won't do it in a contract year.

For all the talk of how great the core was last year, they sure blew at the powerplay. Zuck and the PP2 guys including even Carter saved our overall percentage.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Jake rhetoric is hilarious for a fan base that basically cried and whine how we could easily acquire a player of his caliber for ten years of the Sid and Geno era.

Guentzel is our best offensive forward next season.. If we move him we better be signing a hell of a UFA or pulling off a huge trade.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He's a very flawed powerplay player especially here. The problem is we can't seem to remove him from it and certainly won't do it in a contract year.

For all the talk of how great the core was last year, they sure blew at the powerplay. Zuck and the PP2 guys including even Carter saved our overall percentage.

March 1st until game 82.
When used properly he can help. It's a matter of zone time and finding him in the bumper slot. They did that better down the stretch, so he was able to do contribute more.

I don't think it's hopeless. I think he should be in Sid's position. He only had 4 fewer PPP's than Sid. And it's Crosby that's the one getting the puck a ton, being on the perimeter, not him.
What if they just swapped? Sid could be a great net-front, and Jake's a high percentage passer I trust very much with the puck. Sid got picked off a ton this year. One of his worst PP years for sure.

 

[HandshakeLine]

They wouldn't want Sid getting injured in front of the net, I think.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

They wouldn't want Sid getting injured in front of the net, I think.

Jake just had 3 near full seasons in that role. Kreider played 79 games.

You may be right, but it's not a well founded concern on their part imo. The defending teams typically take it easy with the net-front abuse, for fear of going down 5 on 3. They're focused on structure.
I don't see a lot of slapshot injuries in that role either.
He'd be fine.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Jake just had 3 near full seasons in that role. Kreider played 79 games.

You may be right, but it's not a well founded concern on their part imo. The defending teams typically take it easy with the net-front abuse, for fear of going down 5 on 3. They're focused on structure.
I don't see a lot of slapshot injuries in that role either.
He'd be fine.

Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. He used to spend his time there fairly often earlier in his career, but I don't recall Sid being much near the net since the Steckel hit, which is a shame because he's still got the best hands and reflexes for those close-in chances. I think either he or the coaching staff wanted him out of there, IIRC?

 

[Andy99]

Lol

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-the-future-penguins-gm-return-the-team-to-cup-contention

 

[Zbynek]

Lol

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-the-future-penguins-gm-return-the-team-to-cup-contention

9 NMCs is crazy. Great work by Sleepy

 

[Pens x]

Lol

https://thehockeynews.com/news/will-the-future-penguins-gm-return-the-team-to-cup-contention

It’s all apart of his long term plan; be patient. He’s a builder. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Ask the Flyers’ fans, they feel he was let go too quickly. JR would be way worse.

 

[chethejet]

I have to think Sullivan is here unless the new GM just wants his own coach. Sullivan to the Rangers for a top pick or the young LW works if that is the case. If a new coach sees the holes as grit size and balance comes into play, then Jake moved to say Minny his home for Hartman and Foligno brings needs grit to the Pens. Money works and then sign Zucker in a reasonable deal and term and then work on the LD with Soucy, adding needed physical LD. Granlund being moved or bought out adds to the cap space and 25 million for Zucker, a Goalie and Soucy is very doable. Lastly get a RH center who is younger for the third line and with DOC and Poehling Pens have the makings of a playoff team.