Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Pancakes]

Graves is definitely not top pair quality, he just complements Letang's game pretty well. It would be the same way that Pettersson and Petry are together, it's much more about getting a good complement between partners.

My ideal defense is something like:

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Petry
Smith-Rutta

Get a physical DFD to play with Letang and put Smith with Rutta on the bottom pair. I'm good with POJ in Smith's spot but I think they need to trade either Smith or POJ to address the goaltending or depth forward situation.

Graves would add some size for sure which is nice.

Orlov would be the ideal fit I think but it sounds like he wants to go to Boston or back to Washington. Not sure he'd come here.

Gavrikov would also be interesting if Graves is too pricey/uninterested.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

 

[Zbynek]

Do POJ and a 2nd for Swayman's RFA rights and then sign Graves to play with Letang on the top pair.

Yea those are my preferred moves. I'm also fine with the same move for Ullmark, or Hellebuyck and we add a little more. I know they are just rumors but I don't remember the last summer where so many tier 1 goalies were rumored to be available for trade. Really hope Dubas capitalizes on that as soon as he gets in. On the one hand he has a bad track record on goalies but on the other he's not been afraid to make trades.

Assuming we get a new goalie and Graves signed for around 10million, that leaves you another 10 million (or 13million if we buyout Granny) to fill out the rest of the offense.

 

[Zbynek]

Graves would add some size for sure which is nice.

Orlov would be the ideal fit I think but it sounds like he wants to go to Boston or back to Washington. Not sure he'd come here.

Gavrikov would also be interesting if Graves is too pricey/uninterested.

Gotta think Graves cap hit will be in the 5 million range as long as you give him some term, which you pretty much have to if you want to win him on UFA. Don't see the problem with that, he's 28 and he's been healthy his career so far.

Gavrikov I think will get a similarly priced deal.

Not sure if Pens will end up needing another right-hand shot, maybe the new GM will shake up the D a bit and maybe not, but in the case we do I'd also love to take a flyer on Severson if he reaches UFA.

 

[Pens x]

I wonder how the eastern conference playoffs would have played out had the Pens beat the pathetic Blackhawks and stumbled into the playoffs. I hope the Panthers sent Hextall and Sully some nice gifts.

 

[Darren McCord]

I wonder how the eastern conference playoffs would have played out had the Pens beat the pathetic Blackhawks and stumbled into the playoffs. I hope the Panthers sent Hextall and Sully some nice gifts.

probably Boston vs Vegas TBH.

 

[Peat]

Graves would add some size for sure which is nice.

Orlov would be the ideal fit I think but it sounds like he wants to go to Boston or back to Washington. Not sure he'd come here.

Gavrikov would also be interesting if Graves is too pricey/uninterested.

Maybe I've missed something about their contrasting reputations but I'd have thought Gavrikov would be a lot pricier than Graves.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Not that there was ever much hope, but I think Saros isn't going anywhere now. Trotz seems like he's gonna still try for playoffs this year.
Maybe at the deadline or next summer they move him...

 

[wej20]

No. The top 4 D-man can be acquired in free agency. There's many available. Might need to overpay a little, but it's doable.
POJ would be making 825K as a regular on the 3rd pair. Smith will make maybe a little more, as he's RFA right now. They are not contracts that need to be off-loaded.
Smith can be your #7. Get rid of Ruhwedel and Friedman. Smith fills in during injuries or poor play from someone else. It's time to get something out of that trade.
Chad ended up playing 47 games due to injuries, and he wasn't always the #7 throughout the year either.
I'd expect a lot of missed games from Petry and Rutta again, and that's just for starters. Smith could very much be important here next year, as long as he's not blocked in the line.

if Smith or POJ end up as the #7 then we should trade them while we can get some value for them.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

if Smith or POJ end up as the #7 then we should trade them while we can get some value for them.

Why? The #7 could play 50+ games with the way our D get hurt, and they cost next to nothing.
If trading one opens the door for Chad to play that many again then that would suck.

And Smith and POJ's value will be higher in the future.

 

[wej20]

Why? The #7 could play 50+ games with the way our D get hurt, and they cost next to nothing.
If trading one opens the door for Chad to play that many again then that would suck.

And Smith and POJ's value will be higher in the future.

He could also play 20 games and be worth a 5th by the end of the season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

POJ and Smith are too useful as trade assets to keep either of them as a #7D. You should be having jobbers like Ruhwedel as your #7, a safe and cheap guy that won't kill you if he plays. POJ and Smith are way too useful to add a similarly aged forward or use in a package to get a goalie or a top-6 forward to just keep them as a #7D.

 

[eXile3]

POJ and Smith are too useful as trade assets to keep either of them as a #7D. You should be having jobbers like Ruhwedel as your #7, a safe and cheap guy that won't kill you if he plays. POJ and Smith are way too useful to add a similarly aged forward or use in a package to get a goalie or a top-6 forward to just keep them as a #7D.

Agreed. Play ‘‘em or trade ‘em.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They are both outta waiver options, too. And they need PT.

Like Emp said you sit on guys like Ruh. That's literally all they are useful for. If you aren't scrounging up minutes at least fairly regularly for guys like Smith and POJ they need to be moved. Because you don't develop players by sitting them on the bench most of the year. And this team desperately needs to develop some damned players.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t see any issues with having POJ and Smith as our # 6 and # 7.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

POJ and Smith are too useful as trade assets to keep either of them as a #7D. You should be having jobbers like Ruhwedel as your #7, a safe and cheap guy that won't kill you if he plays. POJ and Smith are way too useful to add a similarly aged forward or use in a package to get a goalie or a top-6 forward to just keep them as a #7D.

A guy like Ruhwedel can make you miss the playoffs if this last year is his new norm. Not really an option to play 40+ games again. This team doesn't have the luxury of using shit players and getting away with it anymore.
POJ's value may be pretty decent right now, but Smith's is nowhere near where it could be in a year or two. He was just in the minors.
Trading POJ is potentially leaving the 3rd pair vulnerable. Pretty good odds you get a strong season out of a POJ-Rutta pairing right now. They were excellent together.
What would be the new pair? Would it work? How much does it hurt us if it doesn't?

He could also play 20 games and be worth a 5th by the end of the season.

The thing is that Smith wouldn't be a true #7 if Chad or Friedman are still here. Sullivan will pick them first, unless they need a PP1 point man.
That's why I said you keep Smith if he's actually the #7, after Chad and Friedman are dealt away.

But yeah if our true #7 is only getting 20 games, that would mean the D is super healthy, Smith just sucked and got replaced, or Smith himself got hurt.
I don't expect healthy seasons from Rutta, Petry or Letang, and the new top 4 D-man could be a guy that misses a lot of time too.
We had a freak healthy year for the D-corps 2 years ago, but the blue line was younger and more durable then. We'd be pretty fortunate to see that again with our current situation.

Like Emp said you sit on guys like Ruh

You don't if they hurt you more than they used to, which Chad just did.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A guy like Ruhwedel can make you miss the playoffs if this last year is his new norm. Not really an option to play 40+ games again. This team doesn't have the luxury of using shit players and getting away with it anymore.
POJ's value may be pretty decent right now, but Smith's nowhere near where it could be in a year or two. He was just in the minors.
Trading POJ is potentially leaving the 3rd pair vulnerable. Pretty good odds you get a strong season out of a POJ-Rutta pairing right now. They were excellent together.
What would be the new pair? Would it work? How much does it hurt us if it doesn't?

There is absolutely not one skater who can have nearly this kind of impact on a NHL team. A goalie? Maybe I could see that. But absolutely not a skater, especially one as vanilla as Ruhwedel.

I don't like using +/- as an argument, but Ruhwedel was a -4 in 47 games last year. That kind of performance from a #7D is absolutely not going to sink your team.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I mean... Sullivan problems. Yet again.

You WANT to have a Ruh kinda guy as insurance and not feel bad sitting him because I mean... he is what he is. But then you also have a numbskull coach that insists on cramming him into the lineup in every possible instance and often even when healthy.

So... I'm just thinking in Sullivanese, here.

 

[Jacob]

I think POJ is closer to a #4 than a #7. Smith is kinda up in the air but I’m fine with throwing him with Rutta and re-evaluating after 20-25 games.

Sign a veteran-ish LD like Hagg just in case.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I've already posted this before, but my hope for the off-season:

1. Use POJ as a trade chip to get Swayman from Boston. Or if Boston pulls a stupid and decides to trade Ullmark instead, try to trade for Ullmark. Boston is in an awful cap situation so they're going to have to trade one of those two. They need LD so I think POJ would be an attractive piece for them.
2. Sign a physical DFD akin to a younger Dumoulin in free agency to play with Letang. I think Graves is probably the closest to this available this year. I think Letang desperately needs that kind of safety net to be at his most effective.
3. Use basically every other penny you have to address the bottom-6. I hope they can trade Granlund, but if they can't, I'd actually advocate for him to fill Zucker's top-6 role with either Guentzel-Crosby-Granlund or Granlund-Malkin-Rust.

I know point 3 will cause some arguments, but this team had a stellar top-6 last year but still missed the playoffs. They tried maximizing their top-6 and throwing the bottom-6 scraps last year and it failed miserably. If you can't get out of his deal, which is obviously the preferred outcome, using him as a 3rd wheel in an offensive top-6 line makes a billion more sense than signing another top-6 guy and pushing Granlund to L3.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

There is absolutely not one skater who can have nearly this kind of impact on a NHL team. A goalie? Maybe I could see that. But absolutely not a skater, especially one as vanilla as Ruhwedel.

I don't like using +/- as an argument, but Ruhwedel was a -4 in 47 games last year. That kind of performance from a #7D is absolutely not going to sink your team.

We just missed by virtue of a few missing upticks in GD. It could happen again. We're a bubble team.
Everything matters right now. If we were still a likely 102+ point team I'd agree with you, but that mentality belongs in the past.

I don't see the need to deal these D-men. We have all our 1sts, 2nds and 3rds for the next 3 years. We have Pickering and whoever gets drafted now. We got Blomqvist.
Will any of those players end up making a difference for the Pens during years where they're actually trying to win the Cup? I'm not betting on that.
So it seems obvious to me that those are the burnable assets. Whereas Smith and POJ can get help us get into the playoffs right now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We just missed by virtue of a few missing upticks in GD. It could happen again. We're a bubble team.
Everything matters right now. If we were still a likely 102+ point team again I'd agree with you, but that mentality belongs in the past.

I don't see the need to deal these D-men. We have all our 1sts, 2nds and 3rds for the next 3 years. We have Pickering and whoever gets drafted now. We got Blomqvist.
Will any of those players end up making a difference for the Pens during years where they're actually trying to win the Cup? I'm not betting on that.
So it seems obvious to me that those are the burnable assets. Whereas Smith and POJ can get help us get into the playoffs right now.

You are in a substantially worse position with sitting POJ in the pressbox so you're playing some league minimum jobber similar in ability to Ruhwedel at forward than sitting Ruhwedel in the pressbox and playing the guy you traded POJ for at forward.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You are in a substantially worse position with sitting POJ in the pressbox so you're playing some league minimum jobber similar in ability to Ruhwedel at forward than sitting Ruhwedel in the pressbox and playing the guy you traded POJ for at forward.

The guy people say is gonna be in the pressbox most of the year as the #7 will end up getting like 45+ games. Chad just had 47. That's only 9 shy of Rutta. 14 shy of Petry.
And that 47 number could have been higher if Sullivan didn't go with Friedman over Chad late in the year.

I don't expect POJ in the pressbox for a notable amount of time next season. I think he's earned Sullivan's trust at this point, at least over Chad and Friedman. Yeah, Kulikov got in over him, but that was an established D-man that was a top 4 guy many times in this league. A guy that could PK when we needed one.
We found our quality 3rd pairing now. They allowed 3 goals in 200 minutes together, and the team scored 8. Their skillsets are complimentary, and Rutta is a calm veteran mentor for Joseph. I'm hopeful with it moving forward.

I could understand the argument for trading Smith for a Forward, but you need to weigh the pros and cons. Let's say Smith gets 1-1.25M x 2 this summer or whatever.
Would his contributions relative to his cap as a #7 be lesser than whatever he gets back in trade? What about the following year, when he could be more established here? Could be a great AAV.
And if the Forward he gets back costs a few mill more, you have to subtract elsewhere in the roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think POJ is closer to a #4 than a #7. Smith is kinda up in the air but I’m fine with throwing him with Rutta and re-evaluating after 20-25 games.

Sign a veteran-ish LD like Hagg just in case.

Nah. We should be targeting a legitimate top pairing LD if possible.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

POJ and Smith are too useful as trade assets to keep either of them as a #7D. You should be having jobbers like Ruhwedel as your #7, a safe and cheap guy that won't kill you if he plays. POJ and Smith are way too useful to add a similarly aged forward or use in a package to get a goalie or a top-6 forward to just keep them as a #7D.

Last season it passed and it was ok, now going forward I agree. Both have to be in the lineup on a daily basis with Dumo gone. But then again, Mike Sullivan will find excuses and blame the young guys for everyone else mistakes