Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Ugene Magic]

If they try to compete they need to swing for the fences instead of trying to bunt the runner over.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If you call every season cup or bust, you're gonna be busting 99% of the time.

The goal is to make the playoffs. If you get in, you never know. We still can. Once that goal isn't realistic, then you consider tearing it down.

Not to mention that "tearing it down unless you're a Cup favorite" is kind of unrealistic. There were times even during Crosby/Malkin's peaks where the roster was clearly not a true Cup contender (right around the latter part of the Bylsma/Shero era they were top heavy with very little championship depth). So the idea that unless you're a bonafide top 5 team in hockey "there's no point" seems dubious.

Not to mention, why can't people enjoy watching franchise players? Even if Edmonton never builds a contender, I'm sure Oilers fans would rather see McDavid play out his career there rather than trade him away when he's still a star just on the hopes that the return "speeds up the rebuild".

 

[Gurglesons]

Not to mention that "tearing it down unless you're a Cup favorite" is kind of unrealistic. There were times even during Crosby/Malkin's peaks where the roster was clearly not a true Cup contender (right around the latter part of the Bylsma/Shero era they were top heavy with very little championship depth). So the idea that unless you're a bonafide top 5 team in hockey "there's no point" seems dubious.

Not to mention, why can't people enjoy watching franchise players? Even if Edmonton never builds a contender, I'm sure Oilers fans would rather see McDavid play out his career there rather than trade him away when he's still a star just on the hopes that the return "speeds up the rebuild".

Was PIT ever the favorite for a cup?

2010 and 2017 would be the closest IMO, but 2010 you had the Canucks and Sharks and 2017 you had the Caps.

With a couple moves focused on getting younger and more talented I don’t see how this team isn’t in the same usual blob of “could win” they have been for the majority of Sid and Malkin’s career.

 

[Pancakes]

Not to mention that "tearing it down unless you're a Cup favorite" is kind of unrealistic. There were times even during Crosby/Malkin's peaks where the roster was clearly not a true Cup contender (right around the latter part of the Bylsma/Shero era they were top heavy with very little championship depth). So the idea that unless you're a bonafide top 5 team in hockey "there's no point" seems dubious.

Not to mention, why can't people enjoy watching franchise players? Even if Edmonton never builds a contender, I'm sure Oilers fans would rather see McDavid play out his career there rather than trade him away when he's still a star just on the hopes that the return "speeds up the rebuild".

It's not like we're trading every draft pick or young player we have away either. We might keep our first this year for all I know.

Who knows who will be the next Guentzel and change the path of this team?

Chances are we will be forced to rebuild at some point but there's no need to do it until you're forced to imo. And that's even ignoring the legacy implications at stake here.

 

[PensandCaps]

They were in a worse spot at the end of the 2015 season. So who knows what happens in these next 3 seasons.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not like we're trading every draft pick or young player we have away either. We might keep our first this year for all I know.

Who knows who will be the next Guentzel and change the path of this team?

Chances are we will be forced to rebuild at some point but there's no need to do it until you're forced to imo. And that's even ignoring the legacy implications at stake here.

I think we should trade every draft pick and young player to get more contract control of NHL talent for the next 2 years. Once those two years pass the point of the team is to be as bad as humanly possible.

 

[PensandCaps]

Okay so you get another pick for jake

Who the hell else under contract is worth anything?

And how is the 14th and... Some mid 20s pick gonna do anything of note?

We'll have cap space! Name the last good FA we brought into PIT...

You need a concerted effort of four years of suck to build anything. Core is retired by then.

Got Matt Cullen for 800K, played at a 3C level in those cups, was a key player. So it's not all hopeless.

 

[Pancakes]

I think we should trade every draft pick and young player to get more contract control of NHL talent for the next 2 years. Once those two years pass the point of the team is to be as bad as humanly possible.

I'd be fine with that too. I'm fine with pretty much any approach that isn't "blow it up" lol.

 

[PensandCaps]

I think we should trade every draft pick and young player to get more contract control of NHL talent for the next 2 years. Once those two years pass the point of the team is to be as bad as humanly possible.

A full send on these 3 years would be a wild move lol, i like it. No in-between, like that dumb ass Marino trade.

 

[Pens x]

Hextall did a shitty job making a contender but it’s hard to deny the prospect picture didn’t get slightly better under him.

We don’t know what Pickering will become so it’s too early to tell.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Yeah that second rounder they picked up for that bum Granlund was a savvy move.

Knowing NSh that pick will probably be a top 10 d-man for like 15 years

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Are you being serious? This legitimately sounds like satire. Also, how can you look around the league and still say that a rebuild is the way to go. Connor f***ing Mcdavid and Leon Draisaitl cant get out of the second round and you think the Pens will magically just rebuild in a few years and win a cup? Ask Buffalo how their decade long rebuild is going. This isnt about being sentimental or some other BS like that. Crosby/Geno are still good players in this league and they might just make some noise in the playoffs if a competent GM comes along.

There is also no guarantee that you tank and get players better than 36/37 year old Crosby and Malkin. Edmonton had top-10 picks from 2007-2013 and none of them come close to Sid/Geno today. Oilers are lucky they finally got generational talents.

36/37 Sid and Geno are 36/37 Sid and Geno but a draft pick could be anything. It could even be a player as good as 36/37 Sid and Geno.

 

[eXile3]

Nobody panic but Dominik Simon just got cut from his Czech team after scoring 3 points in 22 games.

As long as Sullivan never finds out we’re good.

 

[SomeDude]

Nobody panic but Dominik Simon just got cut from his Czech team after scoring 3 points in 22 games.

As long as Sullivan never finds out we’re good.

With no current GM, one has to think Sully is essentially running the show right now in terms of player management.

Looks like we’ve got our Zucker replacement.

 

[Jacob]

How’s this for a bottom 6/7?

Brown missed all of last season so should be relatively reasonable, like 1x3.5. Prior cap hit was 3.6, signed as an RFA, but was only traded for a 2nd prior to the injury so I don’t think there’ll be huge demand. Might even be overestimated. Janmark around 1x1.5. Both skate, defend and PK well and don’t need PP time to score. They’re significant threats shorthanded too. There’s some skill to play with Granlund so he’s not playing with total plugs.

O’Connor - Granlund - Brown
Janmark - Poehling - Carter
Nylander

That’s like $16 million total, seems reasonable even with a couple overpaid guys. Figure you can get around 75 goals out of this group. Leaves plenty for a top 6 wing and a goalie.

 

[Andy99]

How’s this for a bottom 6/7?

Brown missed all of last season so should be relatively reasonable, like 1x3.5. Prior cap hit was 3.6, signed as an RFA, but was only traded for a 2nd prior to the injury so I don’t think there’ll be huge demand. Might even be overestimated. Janmark around 1x1.5. Both skate, defend and PK well and don’t need PP time to score. They’re significant threats shorthanded too. There’s some skill to play with Granlund so he’s not playing with total plugs.

O’Connor - Granlund - Brown
Janmark - Poehling - Carter
Nylander

That’s like $16 million total, seems reasonable even with a couple overpaid guys. Figure you can get around 75 goals out of this group. Leaves plenty for a top 6 wing and a goalie.

Get rid of Carter and Granlund and that looks good lol…if Carter doesn’t retire and isn’t LTIR, he should be the 13th forward…play Nylander over him

 

[Jacob]

Get rid of Carter and Granlund and that looks good lol…if Carter doesn’t retire and isn’t LTIR, he should be the 13th forward…play Nylander over him

I don’t see either happening.

 

[Gurglesons]

How’s this for a bottom 6/7?

Brown missed all of last season so should be relatively reasonable, like 1x3.5. Prior cap hit was 3.6, signed as an RFA, but was only traded for a 2nd prior to the injury so I don’t think there’ll be huge demand. Might even be overestimated. Janmark around 1x1.5. Both skate, defend and PK well and don’t need PP time to score. They’re significant threats shorthanded too. There’s some skill to play with Granlund so he’s not playing with total plugs.

O’Connor - Granlund - Brown
Janmark - Poehling - Carter
Nylander

That’s like $16 million total, seems reasonable even with a couple overpaid guys. Figure you can get around 75 goals out of this group. Leaves plenty for a top 6 wing and a goalie.

Buy out Granlund.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

With no current GM, one has to think Sully is essentially running the show right now in terms of player management.

Looks like we’ve got our Zucker replacement.

The super sad thing is that dude is one of the most successful draftees of this era.

re: Granlund... I hate buyouts. But if they absolutely cannot find a way to move him without one I would hope it's on the table. I get that people want to see what he can do but I'll spare you the drama and frustration... nothing. He can do nothing. At least well enough to be anything other than a hindrance. Especially if Sullivan is holding the lineup card.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Granlunds buyout cap hit is only 833k for the first year. That's not bad at all. Much better than taking cap back or giving up an asset

 

[mephisto1812]

Buy out Granlund.

If that turns out to be our only option, I do it without hesitation.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Fire pucks at both of their unprotected feet every day until the puck drops on camp and then use the LTIR to get better players.

 

[Gurglesons]

If that turns out to be our only option, I do it without hesitation.

It’s the best option.

 

[Sideline]

Fire pucks at both of their unprotected feet every day until the puck drops on camp and then use the LTIR to get better players.

We need Martin Straka back as the Trainer and Strength coach.

 

[Freeptop]

Rebuilding is obviously not a guarantee when you botch it with premature or stupid choices. That's not an indication of anything other than incompetence, if it lasts as long as it has for the Wings and Oilers.
I'd be pretty confident with a rebuild in Tulsky's hands, especially if they choose the right President too. Not all front offices and ownership are equal. Different teams' situations are not ours.
I'd settle for getting the team back into the mix for contention. Obviously it's hard to demand actual championships, since only one team wins every year.

I don't know that it's fair to call me pessimistic. It's more like an acceptance of reality. I would say some of you guys are irrationally optimistic, if anything.
But if I end up wrong and they win next year then I'll be happy and take my whippings here with grace.

I mean, I'd argue that going for a rebuild now would be a premature choice.
Even if they pick number 1 overall next year (2024), is that player a game changer?
Or are they closer to a Nico Hischier or Alex Lafreniere?

Look at the Panthers, who only made it to the playoffs twice between 2006 and 2020. They had some high picks on their roster and in their system, and they had some decent players, but until they got Barkov, they didn't really have a superstar. And no way to really acquire one.

They may not have always had the best roster management, but they also didn't have a ton to work with to begin with.

The fact is, having a truly successful rebuild requires some luck (or at least, good timing).
Not every team that hasn't contended for the Cup has been the victim of bad managment.