Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[SEALBound]

I'd like to upgrade Pettersson, Ruhwedel and Jarry/DeSmith if keeping that Defense.

I would be interested to know what the organizations thoughts on Freidman are. The ideal "upgrade" on Rudwedel is Freidman jumping him in the depth chart. That said, I'd be okay exploring a cheap #7. I'm okay with Pettersson and POJ as the top 2 LD.

The bottom 6 and goaltending need so much work that I think we have to make sacrifices somewhere. Relying on the two youthful dman we have sounds like a decent start if we are serious about being younger.

 

[SEALBound]

Unless Rust gets his spot back on the top PP unit in place of Rakell (which is a distinct possibility with Daddy Sullivan around), I don't think you can expect much more production out of him. This is what Rust is. The reason his totals were higher the past couple of seasons was the extra PP points, but his ES/5on5 production puts him at around a 40-ish point player.

Rust had a lot of problems at 5v5 as well. Sure, lack of PP may have affect his overall production but that's far from the only issue with him.

He had the typical "got paid and coasted" season.

 

[pistolpete11]

Resigning Dumo would indicate a level of "detachment from reality" that would be as infuriating as it would be concerning.

I'm not 100% convinced we need a Dumo replacement.

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta

Good balance of size, skill, speed, and puck moving. We need work on our defensive schemes and responsibility before we dial in personnel. I'd rather spend the $3mil elsewhere at the moment.

This is kind of where I've landed, too.

I understand and frankly even agree that there's a risk that they get pushed around too much with how weak the LD is. If they do, though, there's always a Kulikov type available out there.

But this team needs to take some risks. We all want them to add some young legs into the mix, well, POJ and Smith are the best young guys they've got. Let's see what they can do.

 

[SEALBound]

This is kind of where I've landed, too.

I understand and frankly even agree that there's a risk that they get pushed around too much with how weak the LD is. If they do, though, there's always a Kulikov type available out there.

But this team needs to take some risks. We all want them to add some young legs into the mix, well, POJ and Smith are the best young guys they've got. Let's see what they can do.

Play youth! Get younger!

"Okay, play POJ and Smith"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WE NEED UPGRADES!

I'd be okay with 1-2 big acquisitions then rounding the rest of the roster out with existing guys or super cheap jobs, maybe even some RFAs that don't get QOs like Comtois.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is kind of where I've landed, too.

I understand and frankly even agree that there's a risk that they get pushed around too much with how weak the LD is. If they do, though, there's always a Kulikov type available out there.

But this team needs to take some risks. We all want them to add some young legs into the mix, well, POJ and Smith are the best young guys they've got. Let's see what they can do.

This team can't afford to go into the season with that defensive group. One of POJ or Smith should be sent out in a trade for a similar aged forward, or be part of a package for a goaltender or LD.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Resigning Dumo would indicate a level of "detachment from reality" that would be as infuriating as it would be concerning.

I'm not 100% convinced we need a Dumo replacement.

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta

Good balance of size, skill, speed, and puck moving. We need work on our defensive schemes and responsibility before we dial in personnel. I'd rather spend the $3mil elsewhere at the moment.

Feel the same way- maybe having some young legs somewhere on this team will get better/desired results.

Bring back Friedman as #7 and if there's an injury, you should keep $1-2M in space to bring in a vet for the playoffs

Allocate the savings of Dumo gone to address the bottom 6 and goaltending. I actually thought the defense didn't play horribly...they had a ton of injuries last year. Dumo being gone should be a net positive for this group

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If the Penguins can bring in a strong two-way defenseman to pair with Letang and find a similar one to upgrade on Petry, I think the defense would be significantly better. Petry is OK, but they need to get younger. Letang should be the only 35+ defenseman on the roster.

I'd keep POJ over Smith. POJ's skating is a plus and I'm certain he's going to keep working on his other skills. There's video floating around of him and Sid working out together recently. I think Smith is fine, but I'd rather move him to upgrade elsewhere.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Penguins can bring in a strong two-way defenseman to pair with Letang and find a similar one to upgrade on Petry, I think the defense would be significantly better. Petry is OK, but they need to get younger. Letang should be the only 35+ defenseman on the roster.

I'd keep POJ over Smith. POJ's skating is a plus and I'm certain he's going to keep working on his other skills. There's video floating around of him and Sid working out together recently. I think Smith is fine, but I'd rather move him to upgrade elsewhere.

The only way you're upgrading on Petry is by acquiring a #1 defenseman, which the Penguins don't have the assets to bring in. Especially if you want a younger top pair defenseman.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah I don't have much issue with Petry. If he replicated his recent season next year, I'd be just fine with it. You hope that POJ matures a bit as well and that Ty Smith builds on his experience in NJ/WBS.

Not hard to point at weaknesses - the LD is weaker can could use a prime Dumoulin to go with Letang.

Prime Dumo-Letang
Petterson-Petry
POJ/Smith-Rutta

That would be a solid defense. My question is whether or not what we have is bad enough to use what little resources we have to fix it. I think the bottom 6 and goaltending get the nod before the defense. Especially when we have 2 <$1mil young guys available.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah I don't have much issue with Petry. If he replicated his recent season next year, I'd be just fine with it. You hope that POJ matures a bit as well and that Ty Smith builds on his experience in NJ/WBS.

Not hard to point at weaknesses - the LD is weaker can could use a prime Dumoulin to go with Letang.

Prime Dumo-Letang
Petterson-Petry
POJ/Smith-Rutta

That would be a solid defense. My question is whether or not what we have is bad enough to use what little resources we have to fix it. I think the bottom 6 and goaltending get the nod before the defense. Especially when we have 2 <$1mil young guys available.

We should be able to get a middle pairing LD from a team in cap trouble like LA or Boston fairly easily.

 

[pistolpete11]

This team can't afford to go into the season with that defensive group. One of POJ or Smith should be sent out in a trade for a similar aged forward, or be part of a package for a goaltender or LD.

Why not? I'd say they can't afford a $4M minor upgrade when they have much bigger needs at G, 2LW, and 3C.

If they need to include 1 of them in a trade to fill one of those bigger needs, that's different.

 

[Freeptop]

Who do you guys see as a good Dumo replacement? Would Ryan Graves be a good option? He'd at least bring some size and physicality.
I'm allso wondering if Trent Frederic could be pryed out of Boston with their cap the way it is. He scored 17 goals this year, and would give us a big boost in the toughness departementet..

Honestly? I'd rather not spend precious cap space on any big-name UFAs on defense. The players available aren't terribly exciting, particularly at their cap hits.

I'd rather take a flyer on some cheap, young players that are going to hit Group 6 UFA status, and see who plays the best out of them plus Ty Smith for the third pairing, and stuff the rest in the AHL.

If the goal is to improve the top 4 on defense, then trades are the most likely way to make that happen.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The only way you're upgrading on Petry is by acquiring a #1 defenseman, which the Penguins don't have the assets to bring in. Especially if you want a younger top pair defenseman.

I disagree. I think you can upgrade by bringing in a different style defenseman, while retaining the ability to move the puck quickly.

As an example, if you move Petry out in a separate trade, you could then pursue a player like Scott Mayfield in free agency. He's probably more of a 4-5 defenseman, but he's big, can chip in offense, and would be a substantial improvement around the net defensively.

You could also pursue someone like Ryan Graves to be Letang's partner. Or you go after Grzelcyk in Boston with the Bruins cap-strapped.

The combination would be affordable IF you move Petry.

There will absolutely be competition for both, especially from their current teams. Maybe there are better fits. Those are just hypothetical examples. But the Pens can create more cap space than most contenders, which means they could potentially be more aggressive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I disagree. I think you can upgrade by bringing in a different style defenseman, while retaining the ability to move the puck quickly.

As an example, if you move Petry out in a separate trade, you could then pursue a player like Scott Mayfield in free agency. He's probably more of a 4-5 defenseman, but he's big, can chip in offense, and would be a substantial improvement around the net defensively.

You could also pursue someone like Ryan Graves to be Letang's partner. Or you go after Grzelcyk in Boston with the Bruins cap-strapped.

The combination would be affordable IF you move Petry.

There will absolutely be competition for both, especially from their current teams. Maybe there are better fits. Those are just hypothetical examples. But the Pens can create more cap space than most contenders, which means they could potentially be more aggressive.

You are a worse team by moving Petry for any of those players.

They should want to sign Graves to play with Letang and keep Pettersson-Petry as the 2nd pair. Trading Petry out to replace him with one of the players you mentioned yields a worse defense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

You are a worse team by moving Petry for any of those players.

They should want to sign Graves to play with Letang and keep Pettersson-Petry as the 2nd pair. Trading Petry out to replace him with one of the players you mentioned yields a worse defense.

Petry scored 5 goals and had 26 assists in 61 games. Nine of those points came in the power play. That's solid.

But Scott Mayfield scored 6 goals and had 18 assists in 82 games. All of those points were at even strength.

Here's the kicker - Mayfield started 68.5% of his shifts in the defensive zone. Petry was 55%.

You could get someone six years younger who produces equally - if not better - at even strength and who has a demonstrated history of being able to produce while being given heavy defensive zone starts.

Above all, he'd be cheaper. If you move Petry and replace him with Mayfield, you retain similar offensive production, improve defensively, get younger, and open cap space.

I think you have to look at the unit collectively, too.

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Mayfield
Joseph-Rutta

Has a lot more balance and strength.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Petry scored 5 goals and had 26 assists in 61 games. Nine of those points came in the power play. That's solid.

But Scott Mayfield scored 6 goals and had 18 assists in 82 games. All of those points were at even strength.

Here's the kicker - Mayfield started 68.5% of his shifts in the defensive zone. Petry was 55%.

You could get someone six years younger who produces equally - if not better - at even strength and who has a demonstrated history of being able to produce while being given heavy defensive zone starts.

Above all, he'd be cheaper. If you move Petry and replace him with Mayfield, you retain similar offensive production, improve defensively, get younger, and open cap space.

I think you have to look at the unit collectively, too.

Graves-Letang
Pettersson-Mayfield
Joseph-Rutta

Has a lot more balance and strength.

Mayfield's career high is 24 points. Petry has scored more points in every single season since 2015-2016 than that. He is objectively not producing equal to Petry. He's a DFD like Dumoulin.

Also, if Mayfield is this type of defenseman that produces as much as an OFD like Petry while also adding that kind of defense, how would the Penguins even be able to afford him?

 

[Gurglesons]

Mayfield ain’t great defensively.

Graves is really not great defensively.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Mayfield's career high is 24 points. Petry has scored more points in every single season since 2015-2016 than that. He is objectively not producing equal to Petry. He's a DFD like Dumoulin.

Also, if Mayfield is this type of defenseman that produces as much as an OFD like Petry while also adding that kind of defense, how would the Penguins even be able to afford him?

Mayfield broke into the NHL late. He has never been a free agent. His value has been suppressed.

Petry is a 13-year vet whose value is inflated by his past production. But at 36 years old, his production is likely to drop, whereas Mayfield's is likely to remain constant for a few years.

Mayfield will get $4 million or so, give or take, on the open market.

 

[Gurglesons]

Mayfield broke into the NHL late. He has never been a free agent. His value has been suppressed.

Petry is a 13-year vet whose value is inflated by his past production. But at 36 years old, his production is likely to drop, whereas Mayfield's is likely to remain constant for a few years.

Mayfield will get $4 million or so, give or take, on the open market.

Building our D around both Graves and Mayfield in our top four with a 35+ year old Letang is an awful idea.

Moving Petry is an awful idea too.

 

[ChaosAgent]

As much as I'd love (jk) to get into a Petry argument, he's not really a good trading asset compared to what he is as a player here assuming he doesn't fall off a cliff. He is worth his contract, barely but...eh, it's all good.

If some team got creative and wanted to trade us a pretty good higher-paid goalie to make room for a goalie prospect (e.g., the Pens in 2016 with Fleury) and wanted a "win now" player and we could swap salary...I'd look at it. But I don't know if there's any of those out there.
May as well just hang onto Petry for now. If we suck this year and he's still pretty good, you move him at the deadline for a toxic contract if it gets you some more assets.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Building our D around both Graves and Mayfield in our top four with a 35+ year old Letang is an awful idea.

Moving Petry is an awful idea too.

There are other options than Graves and Mayfield. They were just examples.

I just think it's unwise to have two 35+ defensemen in critical roles and that there is an opening under new management to make a more versatile and better balanced defense.

Addressing the defense is behind goaltending and fixing the bottom six on my priorities for the new GM, but if there is an opportunity to move Petry to help address the other areas of need and then backfill with a less expensive defenseman who fits the unit better, it should be explored.

 

[LiffLaff]

Mayfield ain’t great defensively.

Graves is really not great defensively.

Neither is Ty Smith, and POJ can be an adventure some times as well, so while I would agree getting younger would be great, a left side of Petts, POJ and Smith seems like disaster waiting to happen to me, especially if we make the post season. Look at what Gudas is doing for Florida right now, thats the kind of player I would look for, someone opposition players fear going through the neutral zone, and in the corners with.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Mayfield is fine as a bottom pairing defenseman or as a second pairing defenseman provided his partner is a legitimate #2/3 who can take care of the puck moving/skill component. Mayfield replacing what we need Petry to do is a disaster waiting to happen.

Agree with the folks above that our biggest need on D is a legitimate top pairing LD to play with Letang, with Petterson/Petry on the second pairing. Find that LD to play with Letang and the defense is fine.

He's out of our price range (plus he likely wouldn't want to sign in Pittsburgh even if he wasn't), but a guy like Orlov is something we could use. IMO, guys like Graves/Mayfield would just be more of what we've had over the past couple of seasons. Decent #4/5 defensemen who are playing one or two spots higher than they should be.

 

[Gurglesons]

Mayfield is fine as a bottom pairing defenseman or as a second pairing defenseman provided his partner is a legitimate #2/3 who can take care of the puck moving/skill component. Mayfield replacing what we need Petry to do is a disaster waiting to happen.

Agree with the folks above that our biggest need on D is a legitimate top pairing LD to play with Letang, with Petterson/Petry on the second pairing. Find that LD to play with Letang and the defense is fine.

He's out of our price range (plus he likely wouldn't want to sign in Pittsburgh even if he wasn't), but a guy like Orlov is something we could use. IMO, guys like Graves/Mayfield would just be more of what we've had over the past couple of seasons. Decent #4/5 defensemen who are playing one or two spots higher than they should be.

I don’t think Orlov’s out of our price range tbh. Just means you cut the cap out and only bring in one goaltender.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

As much as I'd love (jk) to get into a Petry argument, he's not really a good trading asset compared to what he is as a player here assuming he doesn't fall off a cliff. He is worth his contract, barely but...eh, it's all good.

If some team got creative and wanted to trade us a pretty good higher-paid goalie to make room for a goalie prospect (e.g., the Pens in 2016 with Fleury) and wanted a "win now" player and we could swap salary...I'd look at it. But I don't know if there's any of those out there.
May as well just hang onto Petry for now. If we suck this year and he's still pretty good, you move him at the deadline for a toxic contract if it gets you some more assets.

Maybe the Kraken? Gru is their highest paid player @ $5,900,000 (for four more years), #1B Driedger should be healthy this summer and they've got a young G they're itching to give time. Plus, it's a natural destination for ex-Penguins. If they upset the Stars it would make a trade awfully unlikely, but who knows?