Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[CascadiaPenguin]

I don’t think Orlov’s out of our price range tbh. Just means you cut the cap out and only bring in one goaltender.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dmitry back with the Caps. Since this is all fantasy and conjecture, how 'bout this- take advantage of the cap-crunched Rags and send RFA K'Andre Miller a nice offer sheet. 23 year old LD coming off his ELC, only getting better. Cool kid as well. It would cost some assets for sure. Snowball's chance in hell, I know, but a guy can dream.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dmitry back with the Caps. Since this is all fantasy and conjecture, how 'bout this- take advantage of the cap-crunched Rags and send RFA K'Andre Miller a nice offer sheet. 23 year old LD coming off his ELC, only getting better. Cool kid as well. It would cost some assets for sure. Snowball's chance in hell, I know, but a guy can dream.

We can’t offer sheet him without acquiring back picks, but I’d throw a 6 mil x 3 deal at Miller.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

We can’t offer sheet him without acquiring back picks, but I’d throw a 6 mil x 3 deal at Miller.

Yeah, I had vague understanding some type of draft pick comp would be necessary, but have no idea what that equates to. Is it a formula based on our offer sheet? Rags don't deserve young D studs like him and Fox.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I agree with you 100%, I am just trying to think of a way the team isnt completely setting 5 million dollars on fire and can make him movable without giving up much to do so.


I think you almost have to do something like this. Unless they overhaul the system (which is needed IMO) they are gonna try to outscore teams. With this forward group, they need all the help from the back end to create offense.

I think you need one real MFer on the backend that can clear our net and at least make players second guess coming into the zone hard or at players.

I'm not talking a straight goon but someone with size and skill that can body people block shots and clear the crease.

I am sick of seeing other teams camp out at will in front of our net and pretty much do as they please.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Maybe the Kraken? Gru is their highest paid player @ $5,900,000 (for four more years), #1B Driedger should be healthy this summer and they've got a young G they're itching to give time. Plus, it's a natural destination for ex-Penguins. If they upset the Stars it would make a trade awfully unlikely, but who knows?

Yeah, we are definitely in the market for a lot of money for short term at goalie. A $ for $ swap for Granlund would be ideal. But since his value is so terrible Petry may be the alternative.

I think we are 90% locked into Petry though. At least until the deadline.

 

[Jacob]

Reirden specifically coaches the D to avoid stepping up and throwing neutral zone hits. We need a coaching staff that will do the exact opposite of that. Gudas would be useless here and if we change the staff maybe not necessary. We don’t have any Gudases but Petry is physical and seems to like stepping up, POJ does now and then too. Pets trucked Jeannot that one time. I tend to hate the former player hires but maybe Ulf is a better choice to coach the D. He’s worked with some good ones as an assistant and you know he won’t discourage open-ice hitting.

 

[Rudy Russo]

DK’s podcast this am says Sullivan would love to coach Carolina’s roster as how they play is his style: forecheck, mobile defense activated all the time and lots of shots to the net, lots of depth …didn’t mention the lack of star power and lack of high offensive skill lol, but that’s part of it….says Sullivan is staying so the Pens should try to model their roster changes to be the Western PA Hurricanes …

Sully better get one of the Canes goalies and and a younger faster bottom six forwards. Hopefully the pens hire the Canes current assistant GM for the pens GM job.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reirden specifically coaches the D to avoid stepping up and throwing neutral zone hits. We need a coaching staff that will do the exact opposite of that. Gudas would be useless here and if we change the staff maybe not necessary. We don’t have any Gudases but Petry is physical and seems to like stepping up, POJ does now and then too. Pets trucked Jeannot that one time. I tend to hate the former player hires but maybe Ulf is a better choice to coach the D. He’s worked with some good ones as an assistant and you know he won’t discourage open-ice hitting.

Does Reirden really instruct them to not do that? Even without throwing a hit, the successful teams constantly have their D step up in the neutral zone so that the opposition can't gain the zone so easily. Meanwhile, the Pens basically back in and concede the blueline. If that's specific instructions from the coaching staff, then that just shows how inept they are at their jobs and why we look the way we do compared to the good teams.

 

[Pens x]

Moving Petry is an awful idea too.

I’m shocked you think that.

 

[Zbynek]

Building our D around both Graves and Mayfield in our top four with a 35+ year old Letang is an awful idea.

Moving Petry is an awful idea too.

I like Petry but if we bring in a stud like Orlov it could make sense to ship him out. But honestly I don't think we'll be in on him.

Easiest option is to keep Petry and get one LD like Graves to replace Dumoulin.

Graves-Tanger
Petts-Petry
POJ-Rutta

Also, why the f*** did we even acquire Ty Smith? Just makes no sense to deal with that situation now. We did absolutely nothing for his value so can't even use him as a tradepiece.

Hextall is so bad dude.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I like Petry but if we bring in a stud like Orlov it could make sense to ship him out. But honestly I don't think we'll be in on him.

Can Orlov play RD? He's an LD. Not listed as being able to do both on CapFriendly.
I don't think we'll be in on him either. He's been dyed in Caps colors.

Easiest option is to keep Petry and get one LD like Graves to replace Dumoulin.

Graves-Tanger
Petts-Petry
POJ-Rutta

I'd be 100% down for this.
Petry and Letang have similar roles under Sully at even-strength. Similar usage and matchups. Listing one as 1st and 2nd pairing is mostly just on paper.
I liked what I saw from Petts-Letang before Petts went down, so I'd like to explore that again. It's Petry that needs a guy like Graves imo.
He did best with POJ, but I like the POJ-Rutta pairing too much to break that up.

Also, why the f*** did we even acquire Ty Smith? Just makes no sense to deal with that situation now. We did absolutely nothing for his value so can't even use him as a tradepiece.

Was a cap dump, for purposes of getting bigger and more physical on the back-end. Burke and Hextall wanted net-front clearers and guys that are tougher to play against on the walls. Smith was just a throw-in.
This direction never made sense to me, because the team was 5th in GA/G last season. They were fine. Their lack of size and strength wasn't hurting them defensively too much.
Some people at the time were glad to be rid of his contract. I question if he had that much value among other GMs last year.
They used the space to get Rutta, who I thought was pretty good. Missed a lot of time though, and that really weakened us.

All that being said, our fundamental problem on the blue line last year was that Letang and Dumoulin were bad, and we used Ruhwedel as a spare when dealing with all those injuries. He was awful.
It's not really about the newer guys.

 

[Pens x]

The thought of re-signing Zucker terrifies me. Dude is turning 32 in January and couldn’t stay healthy over the last couple of years until his contract year.

This team needs massive changes, not the lazy ass re-sign everyone approach sleepy had. We don’t need more guys on the wrong side of 30. Hard pass. Short of a one year deal, you walk away.

We have one player in our top six under 30 years old. Let that sink in.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Reirden specifically coaches the D to avoid stepping up and throwing neutral zone hits.

Which to play devil's advocate I kinda get with the fact that a solid majority of them are not good at it at all. But it still shows a larger disconnect between coaches and on-ice product, IMO.

We have one player in our top six under 30 years old. Let that sink in.

This is partially why I do not understand why people want to completely bail on a mid-to-early 1st pick (depending on how the lottery shapes out) in order to get a soon-to-be UFA.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The thought of re-signing Zucker terrifies me. Dude is turning 32 in January and couldn’t stay healthy over the last couple of years until his contract year.

This team needs massive changes, not the lazy ass re-sign everyone approach sleepy had. We don’t need more guys on the wrong side of 30. Hard pass. Short of a one year deal, you walk away.

We have one player in our top six under 30 years old. Let that sink in.

His injuries in 2021-22 were a recurring core muscle issue that he didn't have enough time to heal. Once we got eliminated by NYR, he was able to fully recover. That's why he was able to play 78 games this year. This season was proof that that's behind him, and shouldn't trouble us next season.

A 5 year deal or whatever doesn't scare me. Only the first 2 or so are relevant; After that how is his AAV gonna hurt us? Make us lose? Good! We'll be aiming to draft higher at that point anyway, or at least should be.

We need Zucker for these reasons:

A) High percentage shooter - in desperately short supply on a team that can't capitalise on their chances.
B) Established chemistry with Malkin. They've found an understanding of what works for them, at long last. He does the dirty work with the forecheck/retrievals.
C) The dude can still skate. I don't care if he's over 30 if he can still move like a 25 year old for 2 more years.
D) Passionate motivator. He fires up the players and brings the team together. It's very important to have a healthy atmosphere around the team, because the season's a grind.
E) He's almost a lock to be one of our hardest working players throughout the year. The effort was never a concern.
F) He's gonna take a reasonable AAV for what he brings. Probably like 4.5M.

I've thought about it and think we should re-sign him. What winger in free agency is gonna bring more to the team for his cap hit? We don't know if that player will mesh with Malkin, or will find a fit in this organization, with this coach. There'll be a lot of question marks.

 

[Jacob]

Does Reirden really instruct them to not do that? Even without throwing a hit, the successful teams constantly have their D step up in the neutral zone so that the opposition can't gain the zone so easily. Meanwhile, the Pens basically back in and concede the blueline. If that's specific instructions from the coaching staff, then that just shows how inept they are at their jobs and why we look the way we do compared to the good teams.

I think I’m probably exaggerating but they said so on a broadcast late in the year. It was specifically regarding Petry, but it was that Reirden was trying to get him to not step up for big hits and to instead let the play come to him on rushes or something. Maybe Colby said it, and it was made to be positive, like to prevent getting caught.

 

[Andy99]

His injuries in 2021-22 were a recurring core muscle issue that he didn't have enough time to heal. Once we got eliminated by NYR, he was able to fully recover. That's why he was able to play 78 games this year. This season was proof that that's behind him, and shouldn't trouble us next season.

A 5 year deal or whatever doesn't scare me. Only the first 2 or so are relevant; After that how is his AAV gonna hurt us? Make us lose? Good! We'll be aiming to draft higher at that point anyway, or at least should be.

We need Zucker for these reasons:

A) High percentage shooter - in desperately short supply on a team that can't capitalise on their chances.
B) Established chemistry with Malkin. They've found an understanding of what works for them, at long last. He does the dirty work with the forecheck/retrievals.
C) The dude can still skate. I don't care if he's over 30 if he can still move like a 25 year old for 2 more years.
D) Passionate motivator. He fires up the players and brings the team together. It's very important to have a healthy atmosphere around the team, because the season's a grind.
E) He's almost a lock to be one of our hardest working players throughout the year. The effort was never a concern.
F) He's gonna take a reasonable AAV for what he brings. Probably like 4.5M.

I've thought about it and think we should re-sign him. What winger in free agency is gonna bring more to the team for his cap hit? We don't know if that player will mesh with Malkin, or will find a fit in this organization, with this coach. There'll be a lot of question marks.

There are younger players out there, namely Bertuzzi and Bunting, who would be just as good if not better than Zucker now and would cost about the same to resign and would be better worth the long term investment…we need to stop resigning every 30+ player…we have too many …age 27-28 is ok

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This is partially why I do not understand why people want to completely bail on a mid-to-early 1st pick (depending on how the lottery shapes out) in order to get a soon-to-be UFA.

Well I tried explaining it to you. If you don't have a really strong goalie in 2023-24, you miss the playoffs in our situation. The East is too deep now.
This team's not gonna have enough in other areas to compensate for an average to below average starter.
An elite goalie like Saros or Hellebuyck will probably prevent like 30+ goals that a goalie like Ingram would (the goalie you and Jacob want). That's a bigger swing in results than any other player we could acquire would provide. And their AAV will be totally fine.
That 1st won't be able to play until a time where nobody will care anyway. If we're not rebuilding anytime soon, what are we saving it for?

Sure, get a goalie with multiple years if you can, but only if he has potential to be a top ~10 goalie next year. That's what the Pens need to make up for their other deficiencies. Otherwise they'll just finish like this year again. 10th or 11th. Another wasted year.

It's simple. Either do everything you can to make the playoffs and advance in them or rebuild right now. The stats suggest the goalies are the ones that can carry hardest. Hellebuyck and Saros proved it this year. Those teams did much better than they deserved because of their starters. Winnipeg had a toxic ass team. Nashville got stripped clean and had critical injuries, but still only missed by 3 points.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

There are younger players out there, namely Bertuzzi and Bunting, who would be just as good if not better than Zucker now and would cost about the same to resign and would be better worth the long term investment…we need to stop resigning every 30+ player…we have too many …age 27-28 is ok

Long term investment with what aim? We only care about the next 1-2 years. It's about if Zucker will outperform them during this time.
Do you mean trading them later when we're rebuilding? That's the only reason to be concerned about that.

There's a chance that Bertuzzi or Bunting would provide more than him over these 2 years. I don't think that's a lock or anything though.
Bunting's linemate quality would go down here and he'd take as many penalties as Malkin or more.
Bertuzzi is a very poor defensive player. I think he's gonna cost more than Zuck too.

 

[Pens x]

His injuries in 2021-22 were a recurring core muscle issue that he didn't have enough time to heal. Once we got eliminated by NYR, he was able to fully recover. That's why he was able to play 78 games this year. This season was proof that that's behind him, and shouldn't trouble us next season.

A 5 year deal or whatever doesn't scare me. Only the first 2 or so are relevant; After that how is his AAV gonna hurt us? Make us lose? Good! We'll be aiming to draft higher at that point anyway, or at least should be.

We need Zucker for these reasons:

A) High percentage shooter - in desperately short supply on a team that can't capitalise on their chances.
B) Established chemistry with Malkin. They've found an understanding of what works for them, at long last. He does the dirty work with the forecheck/retrievals.
C) The dude can still skate. I don't care if he's over 30 if he can still move like a 25 year old for 2 more years.
D) Passionate motivator. He fires up the players and brings the team together. It's very important to have a healthy atmosphere around the team, because the season's a grind.
E) He's almost a lock to be one of our hardest working players throughout the year. The effort was never a concern.
F) He's gonna take a reasonable AAV for what he brings. Probably like 4.5M.

I've thought about it and think we should re-sign him. What winger in free agency is gonna bring more to the team for his cap hit? We don't know if that player will mesh with Malkin, or will find a fit in this organization, with this coach. There'll be a lot of question marks.

A 5 year extension for Zucker is a ticking time bomb that will blow up. You really want Zucker signed until he’s 37? The pens playoff performance has been abysmal as of late - Zucker has had long off seasons every year to recover. I guess it’s just a coincidence he was magically healthy in his contract year.

We need to move away from this dumb **** of paying guys past their prime. It’s not working. Maybe you could sprinkle in Zucker if we had some young top 6 guys, but this team should have no interest in players over 30 - they have plenty. We literally saw the same thing happen with Rust this season - namely a vet getting a fat extension that is aging horribly.

Fans are still living in the Hextall times - take the lazy ass approach.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

A 5 year extension for Zucker is a ticking time bomb that will blow up. You really want Zucker signed until he’s 37? The pens playoff performance has been abysmal as of late - Zucker had had long off season every year to recover. I guess it’s just a coincidence he was magical healthy for his contract year.

In what way are you worried about his AAV hurting the team from ages 34-37? What is there to fear?
Are you expecting the team to still be trying to get into the playoffs in 2026-2028?

 

[Pens x]

This is partially why I do not understand why people want to completely bail on a mid-to-early 1st pick (depending on how the lottery shapes out) in order to get a soon-to-be UFA.

You bail on that pick to compete during Sid and Geno’s last fear years left. Hoarding your first round pick like Hextall did nothing to make this team better in the short term. If the goalie is to win in the short term, then you trade the pick you can acquire a solid player now.

In what way are you worried about his AAV hurting the team from ages 34-37? What is there to fear?
Are you expecting the team to still be trying to get into the playoffs in 2026-2028?

Why are you willingly re-signing a guy whose contract will be horrendous? Maybe don’t sign the guy? I just assume don’t sign a guy when you know he’s not going to live up to his contract.

Give the money Bertuzzi. He had 5 goals and 5 assists in round one. Compare that to Zucker’s 2 assists against the Rags. Bertuzzi had more points in one series than Zucker had had with us in the playoffs over the last 4 years.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Why are you willingly signing a guy whose contract will be horrendous? Maybe don’t sign the guy?

I already told you. He is likely the most bang for your buck during the only years that matter for us. It wouldn't help us if we got someone younger if he's worse.
They are still trying to make the playoffs. You do what you can to get in next year or you burn it down altogether. They need every edge at this point.

 

[Pens x]

I already told you. He is likely the most bang for your buck during the only years that matter for us. It wouldn't help us if we got someone younger if he's worse.
They are still trying to make the playoffs. You do what you can to get in next year or you burn it down altogether. They need every edge at this point.

Bertuzzi is better, younger, and actually a factor in the playoffs.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Give the money Bertuzzi. He had 5 goals and 5 assists in round one. Compare that to Zucker’s 2 assists against the Rags. Bertuzzi had more points in one series than Zucker had had with us in the playoffs over the last 4 years.

Small sample size playoff stats, with him playing in the Bruins top 6? He'd be playing with 37 year old Malkin here.
You should change your focus to regular season contributions that get them into the damn playoffs at this point.
The Pens are a bubble-out team right now. It's 2023.

Worrying about playoff production is an outdated luxury in our situation. This team's dying.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Bertuzzi is better, younger, and actually a factor in the playoffs.

Whether he'll be better in 2023-24 or not is debatable. It's all moot man. Bertuzzi will not choose Pittsburgh. There'll be many suitors. There's no incentive.