Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[SEALBound]

Lolllllllll Take off the black and gold glasses.

I mean, it's literally what happened. Like factually speaking.

Was he a true first-round talent, who the hell knows and who the hell cares. Fact remains though that it's not Rutherfords fault Lauzon didn't pan out. So, again, that's a bad assessment of that draft and the Reaves trade.

 

[Jacob]

I think that “we’d have taken him in the 1st” is just something you say to be nice lol. Maybe one or two scouts had him in the late 20s, but he wasn’t a 1st round talent. I recall him being a reach in the late 2nd.

Hey, let’s get Ullmark. Have some western team like Arizona get him then flip him to us.

 

[SEALBound]

I think that “we’d have taken him in the 1st” is just something you say to be nice lol. Maybe one or two scouts had him in the late 20s, but he wasn’t a 1st round talent. I recall him being a reach in the late 2nd.

Hey, let’s get Ullmark. Have some western team like Arizona get him then flip him to us.

That's probably the best way to put it. Fact remains, they took him at 55 and would have taken him at 31 had they kept the pick. So really, the trade is Reaves for Sundqvist.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, it's literally what happened. Like factually speaking.

Was he a true first-round talent, who the hell knows and who the hell cares. Fact remains though that it's not Rutherfords fault Lauzon didn't pan out. So, again, that's a bad assessment of that draft and the Reaves trade.

Lauding was a brutal pick at that selection.

His upside was a 3rd pairing defensive defenseman.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And was largely irrelevant in those 30 games. I mean, hey, I'm glad he blossomed but let's not pretend he was on the cusp of a breakout with us.

Lauzon was fine, his career was derailed by several major concussions. That's not on JR. Pretty bad take.

Oskar Sundqvist first two (and only two) seasons with Pens - 28 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.
Drew O'Connor first two seasons with Pens - 32 games, 3 goals, 3 assists.

People are begging for more DOC yet Sundqvist was irrelevant? OK.

 

[SEALBound]

Oskar Sundqvist first two (and only two) seasons with Pens - 28 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.
Drew O'Connor first two seasons with Pens - 32 games, 3 goals, 3 assists.

People are begging for more DOC yet Sundqvist was irrelevant? OK.

At the time, yes he was. He was okay. Barely okay. Doesn't mean we weren't sad to see him go. Not unlike if they traded DOC at the draft. It would be the same amount of suck and about the same impact. You can find DOCs in FA for league min. Same thing for Sundqvist - 4C players are easy to find in FA.

And I mean, hey, I like Sundqvist. I would GLADLY take him back. That doesn't mean I revise history and say that he was something special here. He wasn't. Ultimately, Reaves for Sudnqvist was a decent trade value wise considering they wanted to provide some muscle for the team.

 

[SomeDude]

Sundqvist would’ve made more sense at the deadline than Granlund.

A one legged ice skating ostrich would have made more sense at the deadline than Granlund.

I would have liked the Penguins to have traded for Kostin and Tolvanen this year, sure. But for every 1 of those guys that hits and succeeds, you have 10 who don’t.

Anyone here remember Zach Boychuk?

This was also a bit of a weird year with younger players not making rosters due to the cap stagnation. Tolvanen was the most obvious “good player stuck with a garbage team/coach” that I’ve seen since Michael Grabner hit waivers. We were the last team to pass on him before Seattle took him. Hextall could have essentially traded Kap for him by waiving him for the space.

 

[molon labe]

I hope this ends the Swayman nonsense. Probably won't.

Focus on prying Hellebuyck. Saros probably impossible. Gibson if we can send back Granlund. Ullmark MAYBE (he seems platoonish like Jarry- albeit better) if Boston chooses Sway.

 

[Pens x]

I would have liked the Penguins to have traded for Kostin and Tolvanen this year, sure. But for every 1 of those guys that hits and succeeds, you have 10 who don’t.

Anyone here remember Zach Boychuk?

Zach “snake bitten” Boychuk. The flood gates never opened.

 

[Gurglesons]

I hope this ends the Swayman nonsense. Probably won't.

Focus on prying Hellebuyck. Saros probably impossible. Gibson if we can send back Granlund. Ullmark MAYBE (he seems platoonish like Jarry- albeit better) if Boston chooses Sway.

Ain’t like Helle has been great in the playoffs.

A one legged ice skating ostrich would have made more sense at the deadline than Granlund.


This was also a bit of a weird year with younger players not making rosters due to the cap stagnation. Tolvanen was the most obvious “good player stuck with a garbage team/coach” that I’ve seen since Michael Grabner hit waivers. We were the last team to pass on him before Seattle took him. Hextall could have essentially traded Kap for him by waiving him for the space.

We were below Seattle. They picked him before we had a chance.

 

[Turin]

Ain’t like Helle has been great in the playoffs.



We were below Seattle. They picked him before we had a chance.

Jets always run him into the ground. He would be better if he wasn’t out of gas by the post season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jets always run him into the ground. He would be better if he wasn’t out of gas by the post season.

Not sure we are going to able to platoon him if we get him. I’m a big American fan so I’m down for him.

 

[TimmyD]

Yeah I would definitely be on the phone with Winnipeg. Give me a Hellebuyck and one of Morrissey/Ehlers/Connor package please

 

[edog37]

I don't think you know what facts are

Then you would be wrong.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Oskar Sundqvist first two (and only two) seasons with Pens - 28 games, 1 goal, 3 assists.
Drew O'Connor first two seasons with Pens - 32 games, 3 goals, 3 assists.

People are begging for more DOC yet Sundqvist was irrelevant? OK.

DOC creates more opportunities and plays with energy. I don't remember Sundqvist playing that way. He just fits more of a opportunist mold. Not a bad thing, we we need more drivers.

To be fair DOC isn't the answer, but he's all we have, that is young and cheap. Unless we can get a better young 3/4th liner for free somewhere, we gotta go with DOC!

 

[Gurglesons]

At the time, yes he was. He was okay. Barely okay. Doesn't mean we weren't sad to see him go. Not unlike if they traded DOC at the draft. It would be the same amount of suck and about the same impact. You can find DOCs in FA for league min. Same thing for Sundqvist - 4C players are easy to find in FA.

And I mean, hey, I like Sundqvist. I would GLADLY take him back. That doesn't mean I revise history and say that he was something special here. He wasn't. Ultimately, Reaves for Sudnqvist was a decent trade value wise considering they wanted to provide some muscle for the team.

It’s not about Sundqvist being something special. It’s about turning useful young players into NHLers instead of dealing them for 27-30 year olds. Which is what both Hextall and Rutherford did for years and why we suck ass since they started doing that.

This was my whole point of acquiring players like Paul, Coleman and Jeannot three of the last four seasons.

If you are dealing assets like a 1st or Sundqvist get a player that is either an actual game changer or a player who cap wise fits in cheap with your group.

 

[Pens x]

DOC kinda sucks…

 

[Randy Butternubs]

DOC kinda sucks…

You kinda suck.


Edit: ok, I've cooled off. How dare you insult my boy like that.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think Puustinen should get a chance over DOC at this point.
78 games into DOC's career and his 5v5 P60 is worse than Carter's in that time and is marginally better than Jankowski's was for us. He's shooting 7.3% so far, and we ended up 31st at finishing.

I like his battle level and skating a lot, but if we don't get adequate depth production then we'll miss again. We're bound to get regression from Sid, Geno, Rakell and Zucker in availability, performance or both. There has to be a plan to compensate for that drop-off.

I don't mind seeing him get another shot but he's third in line for a lineup spot for me behind Nylander and Puustinen...at least until those guys do something to lose their spot.

 

[Pens x]

Yea, you gotta give Puus a shot at some point before he pulls a Hallander.

You know what you have in DOC, which isn’t much. I understand he will never produce on our fourth line, but he doesn’t do much for me.

 

[Shady Machine]

It’s not about Sundqvist being something special. It’s about turning useful young players into NHLers instead of dealing them for 27-30 year olds. Which is what both Hextall and Rutherford did for years and why we suck ass since they started doing that.

This was my whole point of acquiring players like Paul, Coleman and Jeannot three of the last four seasons.

If you are dealing assets like a 1st or Sundqvist get a player that is either an actual game changer or a player who cap wise fits in cheap with your group.

Yuuup

 

[SEALBound]

It’s not about Sundqvist being something special. It’s about turning useful young players into NHLers instead of dealing them for 27-30 year olds. Which is what both Hextall and Rutherford did for years and why we suck ass since they started doing that.

This was my whole point of acquiring players like Paul, Coleman and Jeannot three of the last four seasons.

If you are dealing assets like a 1st or Sundqvist get a player that is either an actual game changer or a player who cap wise fits in cheap with your group.

Arguably the only 1st we used on a non-game changer was Kapanen but even then, he was that young skill you just said you wanted.

You just want to pick and choose which deals are good and bad in hindsight and then bitch about the ones that didn't work out.

 

[Gurglesons]

Arguably the only 1st we used on a non-game changer was Kapanen but even then, he was that young skill you just said you wanted.

You just want to pick and choose which deals are good and bad in hindsight and then bitch about the ones that didn't work out.

It’s actually the last thing I want to do. We haven’t acquired a game changer since the 2015 off season. If Brassard, Zucker, and Granlund are your definition of game changer take a walk.

I’m not someone that speaks in hindsight. I was all aboard the Brassard trade, but ever seen then we’ve overpaid for marginal players with high cap hits.

 

[SEALBound]

It’s actually the last thing I want to do. We haven’t acquired a game changer since the 2015 off season. If Brassard, Zucker, and Granlund are your definition of game changer take a walk.

I’m not someone that speaks in hindsight. I was all aboard the Brassard trade, but ever seen then we’ve overpaid for marginal players with high cap hits.

But not too often game-changers better than those two (or at least the meme of those two - Granlund is more a depth piece than a top 6 piece) come available and we are in a position to afford them.

To be fair, Hextall did try for JT Miller. And was reportedly in on Chychrun.

Not too often you find a team in the position Toronto was in with Kessel.

 

[Gurglesons]

But not too often game-changers better than those two (or at least the meme of those two - Granlund is more a depth piece than a top 6 piece) come available and we are in a position to afford them.

To be fair, Hextall did try for JT Miller. And was reportedly in on Chychrun.

Not too often you find a team in the position Toronto was in with Kessel.

You’re missing my point.

We’ve focused on “Jack of all trade” players with our assets rather than focusing on actual needs. We focused on players that put up top six numbers in top six usage.

Instead we need to be spending assets on players that are game changers. Since JR I look at the types like Mark Stone, Ryan McDonagh, etc that have moved for prices we paid for Zucker, Brassard, etc.

If we aren’t doing that and this isn’t hindsight I’ve been saying it for four years is we need to focus on players that play defined roles in our bottom six. It’s why I’m not high on the Nylander signing. Nylanders in our bottom six has been a trend for four years. Spend the assets we waste on Granlund, Kapanen, etc and get a piece like a Coleman, Paul, or Jeannot.

If you are going to focus on building a defensive bottom six whose goal is to keep the ice even when our are stars on it focus on making a bottom six that punishes the other team and can actually play those minutes effectively.

There is no definition of roles on this team anymore. It’s just a bunch of “all situational” players that can’t play any situations great: