Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Pens bottom 6 has been just a bunch of dudes skating around doing…nothing for like 5 years.

That sums up the team as a whole pretty much, that's Jack Johnson's buyout on bass.

 

[Pancakes]

DOC's offense is crap though. His size and speed isn't actually leading to much for him or his linemates. We keep waiting on that to change. He doesn't PK or PP.
People just admire the way his game looks. We need the end product above all else. This year made that super clear.

What's wrong with giving L3 or L4 more O-zone starts when the top 6 are flat and they're not?
We know what happens when the top six are lifeless. They make sloppy O-zone decisions and get toasted on the counter-attack, with their questionable backchecking. In those games if they start in the D-zone at least they'll know their role at the faceoff and have some structure defensively. They'll get used to not having such privileged usage and improve 2-way.

You have to give the bottom-six a chance to contribute offensively. We just saw what happens if you don't. Getting 80% D-zone starts is a great way to kill players spirits. There's no enjoyment in that.

DOC does need to bring more offense, that's true.

Having a bottom six that eats most of the harder zone starts is fine though. The issue isn't the deployments but that the guys we've been using in those deployments aren't up to what they've been asked to do.

The Devils for example started Jack Hughes in the defensive zone for only 6% of his shifts. Crosby was at 7%, Malkin at 5%. Panarin was at 9%, Kaakko at 8%. On Carolina, Svechnikov was at 8%, Terevainen about the same.

I don't think what Sullivan is doing is that unusual. We just need a bottom six that can actually handle what he's asking of them.

 

[K Fleur]

If we’re gonna have a bunch of dudes skating around doing nothing atleast DOC is a cheap one.

He still sucks though

 

[Power Surge]

If we’re gonna have a bunch of dudes skating around doing nothing atleast DOC is a cheap one.

He still sucks though

Sounds right...A bunch of dudes and Injarry.

 

[Pancakes]

If we’re gonna have a bunch of dudes skating around doing nothing atleast DOC is a cheap one.

He still sucks though

I would much rather take a chance on DOC or Nylander turning into something than sign the exact same player but for 3 million a year in free agency.

 

[Al Smith]

I would much rather take a chance on DOC or Nylander turning into something than sign the exact same player but for 3 million a year in free agency.

Agree for the most part; I guess that worked for Danton Heinen for a year, and then he turned back into a pumpkin. I don't think DOC or Nylander is ever going to be productive top 9, especially Nylander. Problem is that DOC was far and away our best forward prospect. This rebuild is going to take a long time.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Agree for the most part; I guess that worked for Danton Heinen for a year, and then he turned back into a pumpkin. I don't think DOC or Nylander is ever going to be productive top 9, especially Nylander. Problem is that DOC was far and away our best forward prospect. This rebuild is going to take a long time.

Heinen was fine. He got screwed with minutes, linemates and role. He was a 2.01 the year before. The rate difference isn't that big.
Should have given him more minutes when he was playing well, instead of funnelling them to the top 6 no matter how poorly they were playing on a given night.

Sully doesn't believe in adjustments and accountability though.

Sully cut his O-zone starts by 18.2%. He missed 11 more games than last year. And he had 2 full minutes less TOI per game.
He didn't play in the top 6 at all, outside of a few games in October (where he produced very well but got removed anyway).
People want the same production year to year despite these factors? Get real

Sullivan's just a bad coach at this point that doesn't know how to utilize what he has.

My view? Bring back Heinen because he'll be cheap. Build a good 3rd line for him to play on regularly. Boost their O-zone starts during games where L1 or L2 suck. Move him up with Malkin or Sid when a balanced lineup approach is warranted.
Do these things and he'll be a bargain again for sure.

It was working? He never tried it again.

 

[Pancakes]

Agree for the most part; I guess that worked for Danton Heinen for a year, and then he turned back into a pumpkin. I don't think DOC or Nylander is ever going to be productive top 9, especially Nylander. Problem is that DOC was far and away our best forward prospect. This rebuild is going to take a long time.

Regardless, if you never give these young guys a chance, then you never get cheap bottom six help and never have the cap space to address other needs.

Nylander and DOC are gonna come cheap. If they can do that and chip in a little offense and not get caved while they're on the ice, that's a huge win for us. Then our new GM can hopefully use the cap savings from playing them to grab a premium 3c or top 4 ld (or both) and/or address goaltending.

Lots of directions to go really. But if the new GM spends all his money on bottom six ufas there won't be anything left to address other needs.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Regardless, if you never give these young guys a chance, then you never get cheap bottom six help and never have the cap space to address other needs.

Nylander and DOC are gonna come cheap. If they can do that and chip in a little offense and not get caved while they're on the ice, that's a huge win for us. Then our new GM can hopefully use the cap savings from playing them to grab a premium 3c or top 4 ld (or both) and/or address goaltending.

Lots of directions to go really. But if the new GM spends all his money on bottom six ufas there won't be anything left to address other needs.

You need guys like DOC, Poehling, Nylander, etc. to keep the cost down and be the third cog on a bottom six line. But they cannot be the focal points of a line.

I think that's the biggest challenge facing the new GM. They need to get out from under a couple contracts - specifically Granlund - and find some guys who can be the primary tone setter on a line. We talk a lot about HBK and the impact Kessel had on his own line, but the heart of that line was Bonino. His conscientious two-way play, his physicality, and his hockey IQ made that line work. It's no surprise that both Hagelin and Kessel became more inconsistent after Bonino left.

The Pens need to find a 2023 version of what Bonino brought - and what Cullen brought, for that matter - to fix their bottom six.

It doesn't have to be a center. It doesn't have to be an established veteran. But someone with that sort of presence to stabilize a line, embrace their role, and allow you to mix and match around them.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

F the Rags

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

God, I wish this team had Palat. He's so f***ing good.

 

[SEALBound]

Cue stupid comments about the Marino trade now.

 

[SomeDude]

Pat Kane may just be old and crappy enough to be a Pittsburgh Penguin now.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cue stupid comments about the Marino trade now.

John Marino sucks.

 

[molon labe]

Cue stupid comments about the Marino trade now.

Well - he was mediocre defensively here at a medium cap hit.

I don't like Petry's cap hit AT ALL - but he's certainly better defensively which is what we needed. Both are absolute mids offensively. Petry's a guy - when the dust settles from our other 10 problems - that I would happily ship out to wherever the hell would take him. The blueline is where we should focus on age more than anything. Those guys rack up major miles during the season.

Would be nice to replace Dumo with a defender who can score occasionally.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hawks have 41M to sign 5F, 2D, 1G.
Three of those Forwards and 2 Defensemen will be dirt cheap RFAs if they plan to continue tanking next year.

Basically they should have a f*** ton of dumping ground space to accommodate Granlund.
Pay the piper with the pick and unload him. No need to buyout.

Wouldn't be surprised if they do it for a 2nd and a 4th or whatever.

 

[Zbynek]

God, I wish this team had Palat. He's so f***ing good.

Just imagine if Hextall made 6 mil in cap space by moving McGinn ahead of '22 UFA and not qualifying Kap (instead of losing them both for nothing). It could have happened.

That was the move I called for 1 year ago but oh well. Guess I'd rather see him on the Devils than the Rags or Bruins or something.

 

[vikingGoalie]

we need to get younger. Crosby/Malkin are both still really good, but we just watched Kane/Krieder/Zuch/Tarasenko/Bread Man get skated into dust by a relentless fast and young devils team. 21 year olds don't get tired like folks that are 10+ years older. Age gets us all, our best bet is to surround our old timers with younger legs that can take some of that pressure off. It's fine to have a few 30+ year olds that are really skilled. It's not ok if that's your whole team.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

we need to get younger. Crosby/Malkin are both still really good, but we just watched Kane/Krieder/Zuch/Tarasenko/Bread Man get skated into dust by a relentless fast and young devils team. 21 year olds don't get tired like folks that are 10+ years older. Age gets us all, our best bet is to surround our old timers with younger legs that can take some of that pressure off. It's fine to have a few 30+ year olds that are really skilled. It's not ok if that's your whole team.

It still amazes the lengths that Hextall took to get older. Anyone who knows sports, let alone hockey, would tell you that if your core is still skilled but old, the right idea would be to surround them with younger legs. Instead Hextall went the complete opposite way. Stunning when you think about it.

 

[Andy99]

It still amazes the lengths that Hextall took to get older. Anyone who knows sports, let alone hockey, would tell you that if your core is still skilled but old, the right idea would be to surround them with younger legs. Instead Hextall went the complete opposite way. Stunning when you think about it.

He didn’t want to resign the core is my impression…he was told to by the new owners…ergo, half hearted attempt by him to even compete this season…he tanked it

 

[molon labe]

I'm eager for new management - to hear their take on where this team is going.

Frankly - I'd rather it be someone not so tight lipped. Our problems aren't a damn secret.

Hextall was the type to not say anything this Summer about goaltending. Like - everyone knows we need one, make the calls. I would straight up tell the Jets "We love the idea of Helle - but we're also shopping Ullmark, Saros, and Gibson." So if they want to make a deal they'll give you the best deal. All 4 of those goalies do the same thing for this team. None of this stupid cryptic shit.

Pens need offensive generators (away from Sid/Geno), goaltending, Dumo replacement, and some other odds and ends. There's no reason not to step in and say your mantra is to replace those with 'X' type. Whether it's physical, fast, whatever.

 

[molon labe]

He didn’t want to resign the core is my impression…he was told to by the new owners…ergo, half hearted attempt by him to even compete this season…he ranked it

They're not mutually exclusive. It's like JR's attempts to deal Malkin. Like - clearly he (a lot of people) were wrong about him and his production. He's one of the biggest steals in the NHL right now.

You can have 3 old guys and win championships. Abso-fn-lutely. Why he felt that he then needed to stack the roster with nothing but 30+ year olds I don't know. Why we continue to bend to Sully is beyond me. Not only that - the contracts that were given out. Why does Rust have a NMC??? Why do mid guys get those now.

Shit is so irritating. Made a post on MB and got flamed a bit but who cares - teams should only get like 3-5 NMC/NTC per roster. You look at capfriendly and it gets depressing real quick (though at least we're not the Rangers).

 

[molon labe]

 

[chethejet]

Hextall turned out to be horrendous. Never understood what Burke brought as well. BUt house cleaning aside, Pens next GM and support has to be Sullivan and ending his smurf BS. DOC, Poehling and Nylander can play in the NHL and need to get away from sullivan and his system nonsense. Maybe Poulin also comes along to be a good 4th line center. Pen have to start reversing the nonsense of old small slower players keep some all in crap alive.

 

[SEALBound]

It still amazes the lengths that Hextall took to get older. Anyone who knows sports, let alone hockey, would tell you that if your core is still skilled but old, the right idea would be to surround them with younger legs. Instead Hextall went the complete opposite way. Stunning when you think about it.

I get the Sid, Geno, and Letang moves. Geno and Letang at $6mil are good additions to any team in the league, no doubt. It's the Carter, Petry, and Granlund-type decisions that I question. I get the Petry deal to an extent but really I really needed to see how the swap from Matheson to Petry manifested in the playoffs before I made my decision. I think older guys can absolutely be effective but I think you need to balance that with younger guys who have varying skill sets. With who have, I think we are capable of that balance but I think that involves pushing in guys like Ty Smith and NOT getting guys like Kulikov.

Looking around the league, it's so damn tough to get younger if you don't have the pipeline already established. The young impact players just aren't available. Especially at cheap prices.

I think our best bet now is to cut as much age as we can whether it hurts the cap or not. That may involve booting Carter regardless of 35+, buying out Granlund, ...tentatively exploring a Petry swap...