Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[SEALBound]

1st+Pickering+Poehling+POJ for Ullmark+DeBrusk+Grzelcyk

Jake-Sid-Rust
DeBrusk-Malkin-Rakell
Wood-Suter-Athanasiou
Puustinen-DOC-Nylander

Pettersson-Letang
Grzelcyk-Petry
Smith-Rutta

Ullmark-CDS

There we go.

 

[FSGDontScrewUp]

It will suck, but we should trade Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Just do the rebuild like the NYR did.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

1st+Pickering+Poehling+POJ for Ullmark+DeBrusk+Grzelcyk

Jake-Sid-Rust
DeBrusk-Malkin-Rakell
Wood-Suter-Athanasiou
Puustinen-DOC-Nylander

Pettersson-Letang
Grzelcyk-Petry
Smith-Rutta

Ullmark-CDS

There we go.

Do you think Boston trusts Swayman at this juncture?

 

[orby]

It will suck, but we should trade Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Just do the rebuild like the NYR did.

Counterpoint. The Pens should hold onto Sid and Geno for as long as they possibly can because they are all time NHL legends and rebuilds suck. A rebuild is going to have to happen, yeah. But it doesn't guarantee you any playoff success. The Wings and Sabres have been in rebuilding phases for years on end with nothing at all to show for it. I am in no hurry to watch X Generation part 2.

 

[FSGDontScrewUp]

Counterpoint. The Pens should hold onto Sid and Geno for as long as they possibly can because they are all time NHL legends and rebuilds suck. A rebuild is going to have to happen, yeah. But it doesn't guarantee you any playoff success. The Wings and Sabres have been in rebuilding phases for years on end with nothing at all to show for it. I am in no hurry to watch X Generation part 2.

so you would rather have a few more years similar to this, maybe squeeze into the 7th or 8th seed, and hopefully have 1 good run where we lose in the 2nd or 3rd round while leaving our cupboards empty?

I would rather see Pittsburgh win another cup in my lifetime, and the best shot at that is taking a step back so we can rebuild. Hate to say it but its true.

 

[FlyingPenguin]

The idea that we're gonna move Crosby/Malkin/Letang and suddenly be a cup team again is naive. It could happen, but the odds are not in our favour and you could just as well get unlucky and end up languishing in mediocrity, which is ostensibly what you're trying to avoid by trading the big guns.

Rebuilds in this league are brutal and you need a significant amount of luck to have a really successful one. We're going to have to rebuild eventually because it's unavoidable, but there's no sense rushing into it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It will suck, but we should trade Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Just do the rebuild like the NYR did.

Lol

 

[Zbynek]

It will suck, but we should trade Crosby, Malkin and Letang. Just do the rebuild like the NYR did.

Uhh no. Let's definitely, absolutely, not follow suit with what NYR did.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

so you would rather have a few more years similar to this, maybe squeeze into the 7th or 8th seed, and hopefully have 1 good run where we lose in the 2nd or 3rd round while leaving our cupboards empty?

I would rather see Pittsburgh win another cup in my lifetime, and the best shot at that is taking a step back so we can rebuild. Hate to say it but its true.

We don't operate in a video game. Yes, emotion set aside it makes sense to trade aging stars for draft capital and younger players.

But the sooner you come to grips that that won't happen, perhaps you can focus on other things that are more likely to happen vs never happen

 

[HandshakeLine]

Who is paying for one last year of Malkin and Crosby, and 5 more years of Letang?

 

[SEALBound]

Uhh no. Let's definitely, absolutely, not follow suit with what NYR did.

Why? They have a great-looking roster. Very few weaknesses. They fell victim to the generational talent cycles. They get Lafreniere and Kakko, not Malkin and Crosby at 1 and 2OV. Imagine if they had Malkin and Crosby on ELCs in place of Laf and Kak. Not sure the playoffs would even be necessary. With that, it's hard to win the cup so not every playoff loss is because of the roster necessarily.

Counterpoint. The Pens should hold onto Sid and Geno for as long as they possibly can because they are all time NHL legends and rebuilds suck. A rebuild is going to have to happen, yeah. But it doesn't guarantee you any playoff success. The Wings and Sabres have been in rebuilding phases for years on end with nothing at all to show for it. I am in no hurry to watch X Generation part 2.

As I just mentioned, you want to be bad when generational talents are available. Who knows when the next Sid, Geno, Ovi, McDavid, Bedard are coming down the pipe. You want to be bad enough to be picking 1/2 OV for a couple of years. You don't want the Detroit/Buff/Arizona curse of selecting a bunch in the 5-15 region and it yielding decent but not franchise players. So I agree, go for it until Sid retires, tank, get high picks. My hope is that Sid retires when Geno does. Then you can sell Letang off for an asset. Probably the same with Jake. And I assume Pickering will be a generational 1D by then, so sell him off for a pick or two as well.

Then like in 2003-2006 - you get 1, 2, 1, 2ov...and you start to build a good team. NJ is a good example of a team that rebuild right. Took awhile, but looking at their current team, they did what they were supposed to do - they amassed a core of top end talents and then they surround those talents with trades and FAs to round them out. Now they are reaping the benefit.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Who is paying for one last year of Malkin and Crosby, and 5 more years of Letang?

Malkin has 3 more years.

 

[Pens x]

It still amazes the lengths that Hextall took to get older. Anyone who knows sports, let alone hockey, would tell you that if your core is still skilled but old, the right idea would be to surround them with younger legs. Instead Hextall went the complete opposite way. Stunning when you think about it.

It was stunning that so many people didn’t realize he was horrible at his job until this past deadline.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

It was stunning that so many people didn’t realize he was horrible at his job until this past deadline.

In retrospect, the signs were all there.....

Essentially replacing Tanev/McCann with a 8 year older Carter.
Replacing Matheson with a 8 year older Petry.
Replacing younger bottom 6 with a 29 year old Archibald.

Like every move he made was getting an older player. Instead he should be giving away 1st rounders like candy for 23-26 year olds.

To be fair, Sully also had a lot to do with it, as his leash for young guys was/is too short!

 

[Andy99]

Listening to DK’s podcast this am re the mobility of our defense corp: “this defense can’t move the way you need a defense to move in 2023” lol…so forwards too old and bottom six sucks, goaltending sucks and defense can’t move…what else is there Lol? Where’s the coaching criticism? Gallant and Sullivan have a lot in common, including their love of vets….

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, one of Hextall's bad qualities was he did have a habit of making the team older with his moves.

I will defend him a bit on protecting Carter though. I get the move was shortsighted but Carter killed it down the stretch that year and everything was about that upcoming season and trying to win one more Cup. To me the mistake with Carter was when they re-signed him. That was an unforced error. I certainly wish we would have found a way to protect McCann in hindsight. I loved Tanev but he had some injuries and his contract was ridiculously long. I could have lived with losing him or even paying Seattle a pick to take somebody else may have been a better option looking back. We didn't have a 1st but we had a 2nd that year. Not sure that would have been enough but who knows.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Listening to DK’s podcast this am re the mobility of our defense corp: “this defense can’t move the way you need a defense to move in 2023” lol…so forwards too old and bottom six sucks, goaltending sucks and defense can’t move…what else is there Lol? Where’s the coaching criticism? Gallant and Sullivan have a lot in common, including their love of vets….

This goes back to the incongruency between Hex and Sully.

The question that no one has asked is: who initiated the defensive makeover? Was it Hex who felt we needed to get stronger in front of the net and that's why Petry and Rutta were brought in?

Or did Sully want this? If it was Sullivan then he's an even greater imbecile than what's even being portrayed on here. "I want a tougher group in front of Jarry". Well ok, but you can't ask those same stronger and older players to play like it's 2016 where they pinch at every opportunity.

I applaud Sully for having a vision on how he wants to play. But you have to have the horses to execute it. That's the difference between a great coach and one who is merely good.

 

[Gurglesons]

Listening to DK’s podcast this am re the mobility of our defense corp: “this defense can’t move the way you need a defense to move in 2023” lol…so forwards too old and bottom six sucks, goaltending sucks and defense can’t move…what else is there Lol? Where’s the coaching criticism? Gallant and Sullivan have a lot in common, including their love of vets….

Florida just eliminated the Bruins with Marc Staal, Gudas, and Ekblad playing lol

 

[Pens x]

Yeah, one of Hextall's bad qualities was he did have a habit of making the team older with his moves.

I will defend him a bit on protecting Carter though. I get the move was shortsighted but Carter killed it down the stretch that year and everything was about that upcoming season and trying to win one more Cup. To me the mistake with Carter was when they re-signed him. That was an unforced error. I certainly wish we would have found a way to protect McCann in hindsight. I loved Tanev but he had some injuries and his contract was ridiculously long. I could have lived with losing him or even paying Seattle a pick to take somebody else may have been a better option looking back. We didn't have a 1st but we had a 2nd that year. Not sure that would have been enough but who knows.

Carter weaseled his way out of Columbus, why would someone want to waste a pick on him, fearing he’d do the same thing. Also, the fan base and front office dramatically overrated Blueger.

 

[Andy99]

Florida just eliminated the Bruins with Marc Staal, Gudas, and Ekblad playing lol

Ekblad is mobile and Gudas is more mobile than you think but yeah, everyone doesn’t have to be the same level of mobility…just need guys who can pass well (see the ice) and are smart at pinching

 

[Pens x]

In retrospect, the signs were all there.....

Essentially replacing Tanev/McCann with a 8 year older Carter.
Replacing Matheson with a 8 year older Petry.
Replacing younger bottom 6 with a 29 year old Archibald.

Like every move he made was getting an older player. Instead he should be giving away 1st rounders like candy for 23-26 year olds.

To be fair, Sully also had a lot to do with it, as his leash for young guys was/is too short!

It was his moves but also his lack of moves. Refusing to upgrade our goaltending was a huge mistake as well.

I don’t know how anyone had any faith in this clown after the expansion draft. The majority of people didn’t even criticize him at the time. It’s mind boggling. This isn’t a case of hindsight; it was common sense and objectivity.

 

[The Old Master]

I certainly wish we would have found a way to protect McCann in hindsight.

I don't mind trading him, i just wish we got more back.

 

[Phil68]

The Penguins really should trade Rust for a similar type winger as rust but a bigger version. Like a Tyler Bertuzzi

 

[Phil68]

Pat Kane may just be old and crappy enough to be a Pittsburgh Penguin now.

Euuu no.. Keep away from the pens Tarasenko would be ideal honestly.. He plays big and shows up in the playoffs

 

[Gurglesons]

Ekblad is mobile and Gudas is more mobile than you think but yeah, everyone doesn’t have to be the same level of mobility…just need guys who can pass well (see the ice) and are smart at pinching

I'm saying the issue is more with coaching than actual mobility. Rutta just was on a three time cup finalist. Petry is the same quality as Ekblad at skating. Letang, POJ and Pettersson are all good skaters.