Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Andy99]

Exploring some different paths the Penguins could take this offseason to improve

They need to get better, but their options are limited.

www.pensburgh.com

pretty much what we all have been saying…

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Exploring some different paths the Penguins could take this offseason to improve

They need to get better, but their options are limited.

www.pensburgh.com

pretty much what we all have been saying…

The idea of buyouts absolutely disgusted me not so long ago.

These days I'm starting to look at them as a potential boon to help suck as bad as possible moving forward. Which is simply where this team is, now. A shame... could have been easily avoid for another year or two. But they let the rot and terrible decisions stack up.

 

[Speaker City]

At what point is "became a 3rd team in trades to acquire more lottery tickets" an option?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At what point is "became a 3rd team in trades to acquire more lottery tickets" an option?

That's still a few buyouts and LTIR trades for guys who developed equipment allergies away.

Regularly laundering real teams' contracts is like year seven of a five year rebuilding plan.

 

[Speaker City]

That's still a few buyouts and LTIR trades for guys who developed equipment allergies away.

Regularly laundering real teams' contracts is like year seven of a five year rebuilding plan.

Darn, I really wanted Pavel Datsyuk on the roster.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Darn, I really wanted Pavel Datsyuk on the roster.

What's DiPietro's contract up to these days? There's 1.5M right there!

And hey everyone keeps saying they need a goaltender, right? Hell DP probably can still play about as consistently as most of the erratic airheads that fancy themselves league starters these days.

 

[Speaker City]

5 more years on his buyout.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

5 more years on his buyout.

Sounds good. Step into my office Rick... you're hired!

Next step is to find a way to pooch things so badly that they have to play at RMU Sports Center.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The idea of buyouts absolutely disgusted me not so long ago.

These days I'm starting to look at them as a potential boon to help suck as bad as possible moving forward. Which is simply where this team is, now. A shame... could have been easily avoid for another year or two. But they let the rot and terrible decisions stack up.

Let me rephrase this for the Oil City in the audience.

Sometimes yinz might hafta lose a toe so yinz don’t lose da leg ‘n at.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

The idea of buyouts absolutely disgusted me not so long ago.

These days I'm starting to look at them as a potential boon to help suck as bad as possible moving forward. Which is simply where this team is, now. A shame... could have been easily avoid for another year or two. But they let the rot and terrible decisions stack up.

Buyouts for Rust and Granlund line up pretty well with our remaining 2-3 years left of our core, and are dirt cheap during that time. Especially Rust, the much harder to move contract considering length and NTC. And then the Rust buyout helps you reach the floor and really suck out loud for a couple years when it's important we do so. For me, you have to get rid of Rust this offseason and let Zucker walk if you are going to remake this roster. You could risk it and start the season with Granlund on Geno's wing, with plans to dump him mid-season in the hopes you get his value to positive and replace him with Puus or a trade.

If a GM comes in who can actually leverage analytics, they should be able to find some bottom sixers who can play some defense and a 2nd pair LHD. This team already has the difficult slots filled, 1st line, 2C, 1st pair defense, right side defense. Same deal with goalies, a good analytics department should be able to find a couple of goalies to run in a tandem.

If given full authority, I'd love the Pens GM job right now, there's nothing but upside and it's within your control to create a ton of salary cap space.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Buyouts for Rust and Granlund line up pretty well with our remaining 2-3 years left of our core, and are dirt cheap during that time. Especially Rust, the much harder to move contract considering length and NTC. And then the Rust buyout helps you reach the floor and really suck out loud for a couple years when it's important we do so. For me, you have to get rid of Rust this offseason and let Zucker walk if you are going to remake this roster. You could risk it and start the season with Granlund on Geno's wing, with plans to dump him mid-season in the hopes you get his value to positive and replace him with Puus or a trade.

If a GM comes in who can actually leverage analytics, they should be able to find some bottom sixers who can play some defense and a 2nd pair LHD. This team already has the difficult slots filled, 1st line, 2C, 1st pair defense, right side defense. Same deal with goalies, a good analytics department should be able to find a couple of goalies to run in a tandem.

If given full authority, I'd love the Pens GM job right now, there's nothing but upside and it's within your control to create a ton of salary cap space.

Yeah I mean... again... I'd usually balk at this line of thinking but that's just where the team is realistically. And if they are gonna do this thing they need to suck as bad as they possibly can (not as easy as it used to be) in a year or two.

 

[PensandCaps]

I don't think Carter Hart is better or more consistent than Jarry tbh.

Is he more healthy?

Hart was rushed by an incompetent Flyers team, He's done well considering his circumstances. Not even 25 yet, his potential is intriguing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sure wish the Pens had shelled out for Bertuzzi instead of Granlund

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sure wish the Pens had shelled out for Bertuzzi instead of Granlund

Yeah but think about how barely-passable-even-then Granlund would have been YEARS ago!

Doesn't that make you feel better?

 

[PensandCaps]

Sure wish the Pens had shelled out for Bertuzzi instead of Granlund

Take your pick, Nyquist/Nino/Bertuzzi/Johansson all would've been better.

 

[Freeptop]

How many did the top six give up though? Lol

I don't have it nicely broken down as top six vs bottom six, but we can at least get an idea by looking at individual goals for vs goal against while on the ice:

Player, GF, GA, Gdiff (on-ice, 5v5, sorted by on-ice GF)
Top Six:
Crosby, 67, 51, +16
Rakell, 61, 54, +7
Guentzel, 59, 49, +10
Zucker, 54, 56, -2
Malkin, 53, 50, +3
Rust, 51, 42, +9
Bottom Six:
Heinen, 25, 29, -4
Carter, 24, 41, -17
Archibald, 21, 16, +5
O'Connor, 15, 18, -3
Poehling, 15, 19, -4
Granlund, 9, 8, +1
Nylander, 5, 4, +1
Players traded out:
McGinn, 18, 27, -9
Kapanen, 16, 24, -8
Blueger, 11, 21, -10

Granted, this isn't much different than the standard +/-, but if the question is how many goals did the top six give up vs how many they scored? Top six was doing its job, pretty definitively.
The bottom six really wasn't. Especially one black hole in particular... (look, say what you will about +/-, but when it's _that_ stark of a difference compared to everyone else on the team, one has to at least take that as a sign one should look a bit closer as to why it's that way!)

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah but think about how barely-passable-even-then Granlund would have been YEARS ago!

Doesn't that make you feel better?

Wallowing in Hextall's inaction last summer and outright idiocy this deadline makes me feel better about our chances with the core if we add a GM who can make even halfway decent use of our capspace to complement them.

The deals are there for the assets we have, he was just incompetent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wallowing in Hextall's inaction last summer and outright idiocy this deadline makes me feel better about our chances with the core if we add a GM who can make even halfway decent use of our capspace to complement them.

I'd love to think so. And I think blaming the core is asinine but nah... they've already made their bed IMO. If they had started making changes years ago I think in an alternate universe it could have culminated with something interesting this season considering Sid/Malkin's health and still-great play. But as it stands that's fantasyland stuff. They're cooked... and thanks to mismanagement, incompetency behind the bench and flat out arrogance they got chucked in the broiler probably two-ish years too early. Mountain too steep now, I think.

 

[Gurglesons]

Take your pick, Nyquist/Nino/Bertuzzi/Johansson all would've been better.

Hell, doing nothing at all would’ve been better.

 

[Jacob]

We’re going to have to add like, a little extra depth scoring to counter the aging and injuries our top 6 will get.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

We’re going to have to add like, a little extra depth scoring to counter the aging and injuries our top 6 will get.

If you have to shelter your entire top 6 as heavily as the Pens do, then you will never have depth scoring regardless of who you bring in. It used to be Sid could tilt the ice when given significant D zone assignments. They don't do that anymore, and how can you when he's skating with Jake and Rust? With Rakell the situation changes somewhat, and Sid can be brought down a lot closer to 50/50 type starts. Get Geno defensive help, and get him much closer to 60/40 sheltering instead of the almost 80/20 (!) he was at last year.

Our top 6 had major issues that were masked by all the sheltered minutes, and the bottom six was not set up to handle the massive load they were asked to bear. Carter isn't prime Kesler or even Lowry.

You wonder why guys like Kap go and score 8 goals in 20 games with St. Louis, well, they flipped his deployment from 60/40 checker against top lines to 60/40 O zone guy against 2nd and 3rd pairs.

 

[Al Smith]

What's DiPietro's contract up to these days? There's 1.5M right there!

And hey everyone keeps saying they need a goaltender, right? Hell DP probably can still play about as consistently as most of the erratic airheads that fancy themselves league starters these days.

Yeah, I could see that, as long as he doesn't get into a fight.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Am I reading the fine print wrong or is Carter's contract also essentially buy-out proof?

 

[wej20]

Am I reading the fine print wrong or is Carter's contract also essentially buy-out proof?

Yep, we'd be stuck with his caphit. Would save a million in terms of salary.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Am I reading the fine print wrong or is Carter's contract also essentially buy-out proof?

Pretty much. A GM would have to make the cold decision that paying 3.125 for him to not play is worth it.

My training is in inorganic chemistry, and I spent ten years working as a researcher, manager, and project leader working to use nanomaterials for biological and energy applications.
I am also naturally a data-driven thinker, and transitioned to leading the data science effort for the Carolina Hurricanes, building predictive and diagnostic models to assess players and on-ice strategies and communicating the results across the organization.
My management skills and abilities as a strategic thinker have led to me branching out into a broader role of organizational leadership for the Hurricanes. While continuing to oversee the data analysis staff, I have also taken on roles overseeing the pro scouting staff and the staff that manages player contracts and the salary cap.

That's Tulsky's background. To me he sounds like the exact kind of guy who would crunch the numbers and be capable of making that harsh decision, if he deemed it prudent.

So my question is what will our next GM think about this situation. That Hextall + Carter romance is gone.