Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

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mephisto1812

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Mar 28, 2013
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You have Smith.

So you have your top 6 but they should really be bringing in another top 4 LD.

POJ or Smith should be 7
I'm of the mind that Smith and POJ should be playing... and if they aren't good enough at this point? Perhaps it's time to move on. POJ has shown flashes, and Smith hasn't played enough games (for the Pens) to get a true take on him. All in my opinion of course.
 

Darren McCord

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Dec 15, 2015
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I'm of the mind that Smith and POJ should be playing... and if they aren't good enough at this point? Perhaps it's time to move on. POJ has shown flashes, and Smith hasn't played enough games (for the Pens) to get a true take on him. All in my opinion of course.

For my money if POJ and Smith aren't projected to be in the line up every night, you should be seeing who values them in trade.

Last year was the year to find out. POJ proved he wasnt a top 4 dmen yet and may never be. Smith never got a longer enough look. I would actually move Rutta and bring in a top 4 LD.

XXX - Letang
Petts - Petry
POJ - Smith

Smith looked ok on the right with dumo. I think him and POJ could hold down the 3rd paring and you get a vet number 7.
 

mephisto1812

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Mar 28, 2013
289
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Last year was the year to find out. POJ proved he wasnt a top 4 dmen yet and may never be. Smith never got a longer enough look. I would actually move Rutta and bring in a top 4 LD.

XXX - Letang
Petts - Petry
POJ - Smith

Smith looked ok on the right with dumo. I think him and POJ could hold down the 3rd paring and you get a vet number 7.
See.... on the above, you and I agree. Not sure I'm ready to declare pairings, but it's time to find out/decide on both POJ and Smith. If they aren't the guys for this team, I'm ok with it... just move on and get something in return. There are clubs out there that would be willing to invest some time with either one.

And for the record, I don't dislike Rutta, but he's not a needle mover. He's certainly not the "crease clearing" D that he was hyped up to be by some. He's not bad per se, but he's a bit pedestrian/vanilla for what this team needs right now.
 

Darren McCord

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Dec 15, 2015
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See.... on the above, you and I agree. Not sure I'm ready to declare pairings, but it's time to find out/decide on both POJ and Smith. If they aren't the guys for this team, I'm ok with it... just move on and get something in return. There are clubs out there that would be willing to invest some time with either one.

And for the record, I don't dislike Rutta, but he's not a needle mover. He's certainly not the "crease clearing" D that he was hyped up to be by some. He's not bad per se, but he's a bit pedestrian/vanilla for what this team needs right now.

Ya I was underwhelmed by Rutta a lot. It was disappointing TBH
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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I know who I do *not* trust, and it's because of two-plus years of watching the guy play, not some stats on a website called Moneypuck or some person who runs a blog with player cards and/or heatmaps. :laugh: Maybe that's archaic thinking, maybe it's too simplistic, maybe it's caveman-brain, but I've seen Jarry lose enough games for this already mediocre team with backbreaking goals against, at the worst possible times, due to poor fundamentals/composure, and I've seen Jarry play through injuries bad enough to hobble an otherwise capable, if not very talented goalie (else he's on the shelf entirely with said injuries that are so bad he can't even play through them) to know for sure another direction is needed. Are there sure-fire, foolproof options out there? Not ones this team can afford, cap-wise or in terms of price of acquisition via trade. Are there options out there that may end up being no different as far as the big picture goes? Absolutely. But they're different, and simply defaulting back to a guy who has given ample reasons to move on (with an out of jail free card being a UFA this summer) would be disappointing, to put it mildly. He is not Antti Niemi or Dan Cloutier in that he's absolutely abysmal in the net and good for 6 goals against a game. His issue is that he is wholly, entirely unreliable.

Jarry sucks as an option imo. I cannot be convinced otherwise, regardless of whatever the hell heatmaps, or bloggers with advanced analytical tracking say. Frankly, I find it extremely odd that anybody would be cool with running it back with Jarry/CDS (or a different backup). Yes, stats matter. Yes, stats are important. Yes, I recognize that when Jarry's on a hot streak he posts some impressive numbers. But to see the body of work Jarry's put forth over the past few years, *particularly* in crunch time, and say "Yeah, I mean, that's the best option we got" is madness to me. :laugh:

Do I think Jarry as a goalie sucks? No, when he's healthy, he's adequate and has enough raw talent to go on genuinely impressive hot streaks. Shit, he made the All Star team a couple times (as if anybody gives a f***, especially the players themselves). He is extremely athletically gifted. Problem is, he has all the composure and attention to detail/fundamentals issues of MAF--without the durability or resume of MAF. Again, it's a reliability issue. I don't think for a second that Jarry's gonna come up with the huge save or lock things down to close out a game as the other team throws wave after wave of desperate pressure to tie things up late (or win).

If they bring him back, I won't be livid or anything because we're firmly in "whatever" territory with this team and they're just circling the runway until they're ready for Sid to retire. But Jarry coming back, at the term/cap hit he's likely to ask for (and receive, here or elsewhere) feels like a laughably bad mistake on the level of idiocy (or nearing that) of anything JR or Hextall did. /shrug
 
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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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There’s Vejmelka, Swayman, Andersen, even Raanta…all as good or better than Jarry…But Korpisalo is equally as average as Jarry, no worse…in the goaltending thread I copied a post from a guy who did spreadsheet of goalie stats at ES and there’s a list of equivalent goalies at ES as Jarry…I mean if you could get Korpy at 2 years $4M to platoon with another goalie, versus paying Jarry $5M for 6 years…that’s a better option for the Pens..

This is honestly a horrendous take.

I will throw out a name for a tandem based on NST stats though - Anthony Stolarz.

Stolarz is a guy I noticed when I was telling Ducks fans about how not good Gibson has been in recent years. He looks like a really solid backup to me, but I'd need someone like Hellebuyck in front of him for me to be fully comfortable with him as a backup. He's another guy on that DeSmith level IMO.
 
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Empoleon8771

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As an aside, I find it funny that people on here ding Jarry for being injury prone while advocating for Raanta. Raanta hasn't played in more than 35 games since 2017-2018 and has an extensive injury list:

 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Yah people don't seem to realize that Jarry is top 7 among starters in Save% and GSAA since 2019, when he became the starter here.

Lol throwing out names like Raanta or Korpisalo as better is just ridiculous. Jarry's stats are way better, And its not like the Pens are a goalie friendly team.

Yeah I've seen people throw out Vejmelka as a Jarry alternative and I just don't see the appeal with him. Both of his seasons have been really bad, below a .900 save% and a QS% that is at the bottom of the league.

People say Jarry was awful last year at a .909 save%, Vejmelka is at a career save% of .899. I don't care how bad your team is, that's terrible.
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
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Uhhh, you should absolutely be scared to put Sid in the firing line of shots from Kris "high and wide" Letang, all the while getting beat to shit from crosschecks around the crease. :laugh:

This team's a lengthy Sid injury away from a top-5 pick imo.
playing with tanger the safest place would be in front of the net.
 

Turin

Erik Karlsson is good
Feb 27, 2018
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Yah people don't seem to realize that Jarry is top 7 among starters in Save% and GSAA since 2019, when he became the starter here.

Lol throwing out names like Raanta or Korpisalo as better is just ridiculous. Jarry's stats are way better, And its not like the Pens are a goalie friendly team.
Nothing matters if he's not playing. If the Pens have any insight that suggest his issues are chronic then they need to move on.
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
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tristan-jarry-jarry.gif
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
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The risk with Jarry is the contract. When he says stuff like "I've been hurt for awhile and surgery won't fix it", that's a huge red flag. If we are talking 1yr, $3mil then sure. You can bring in contingencies if he doesn't do well. But if we are talking more than he made this year for multiple years, that's just a hard no for me. I think I would rather take the risk of someone new knowing full well they might give a worse performance but at a manageable contract.

$5mil+ for 5-7years? I mean, that's a Jack Johnson level of irresponsible-ness.
the way to handle that would be to put in a lot of bonuses that he could only get by playing. so if he's not playing he's not getting paid.:laugh:
 
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3ladesof5teel

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Feb 20, 2012
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I trust his commitment levels more than most. I don't think he took a single night off as a Penguin. You never know with 30+ guys who've got their money tied up, but he seems to have that Hornqvist buzzsaw style trait.

A 30+ guy hanging around the net that much and playing that hard is asking for trouble though.



edit: Since this is coming up again -

Granlund is a horrific fit here. He is a negative when it comes to the forecheck, which is the foundation of Sully's system. He is a good playmaker, but a team with Sid and Geno need shooters more than playmakers. They also need guys to go to the net front and battle in the corners to help preserve their bodies, and that's not Granlund at all.

You can create a very specific third line playmaker role where he can possibly give value where going up the line up, but that's not worth 5m even if it does work, and if he gets worse he's just not worth icing at all.

I wanted Granlund a lot when he still had legs and when Sid/Geno were younger and capable of doing more themselves. Unless the clock moves back on those things, hoping he'll work out here is like hoping that the square peg will go in the round hole. Just go get a round peg and take whatever the hit is.
Exactly my thoughts. Granlund when he was sitting out there in FA some years back I would have liked.

As far as Zucker, contract year or not the guy is a heart and soul player. You seen during his injuries how frustrated he was. He just wanted to be out there and give it all. He's not wired to play half ass. It's what got him where he is today.

Would love for him to take a nice discount to stay. I could see it possibly happening
 

3ladesof5teel

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Feb 20, 2012
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Nothing I saw from Granlund's time here makes me think he'll be anything more than like a 30-35pt guy with this team, bungling things the entire way and failing to fit in anywhere. I don't have a clue how the guy was ever a 65pt player or a 25+ goal guy in Minny. :laugh:

He can probably find some shit team to pad stats on by being fed big minutes and top PP time, but Granlund the player looked awful last season here and it was pretty universally laughed at when Hextall traded for him with no retention. Huge part of that is fit, and he doesn't fit anywhere, but man... He was a shitshow.
Granlund was a good player and still is. That's where you are wrong. But you already said both Geno and Crosby were done in the past so your player eval kinda sucks.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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edit: Deleted as Empo pointed out I'd quoted a fake account.

Last year was the year to find out. POJ proved he wasnt a top 4 dmen yet and may never be. Smith never got a longer enough look. I would actually move Rutta and bring in a top 4 LD.

XXX - Letang
Petts - Petry
POJ - Smith

Smith looked ok on the right with dumo. I think him and POJ could hold down the 3rd paring and you get a vet number 7.

I dunno that POJ and Smith together is doing either any favourites. Very raw, very small. I'm not against moving Rutta but the two of POJ and Smith together feels risky.

Stolarz is a guy I noticed when I was telling Ducks fans about how not good Gibson has been in recent years. He looks like a really solid backup to me, but I'd need someone like Hellebuyck in front of him for me to be fully comfortable with him as a backup. He's another guy on that DeSmith level IMO.

Probably his actual level, but his numbers look impressive. So did DeSmith's too once upon a time though.
 
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