Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[JTG]

I think the dude's set up to fail because he's been handed the impossible task of restocking the prospect cupboard while also keeping up the masquerade that this team's "100% all-in guys, we're going for Cups, promise" been doing for the past couple years despite not seeing the 2nd round since 2018. /shrug

I don't know if it was posted here, because I don't read the hockey stuff much here anymore, but it was rumored that Dubas and FSG's agreement is until 2031. Like they are full on board with him seeing this core out and rebuilding, and are giving him the leash to do it.

Makes a lot of sense why he said what he said, then did what he did. He can lay down roots for his young family, get some stability, and gain more power than he had in Toronto. I'm sure they met his salary demands also because he want to be hands off.

 

[Freeptop]

the way to handle that would be to put in a lot of bonuses that he could only get by playing. so if he's not playing he's not getting paid.

The CBA only allows performance bonuses for the following:

Performance Bonuses shall be allowable under this Agreement only for:
(i) Players with Entry Level SPCs under Article 9 of this Agreement;
(ii) Players aged 35 or older as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective, who have signed a one-year SPC for that League Year; and
(iii) Players who are "400-plus game Players" for pension purposes, and who: (i) in the last year of their most recent SPC, spent 100 days or more on the Injured Reserve List; and (ii) have signed a one-year SPC for the current or upcoming League Year.

Or, to convert from CBA-speak:
1. Entry-level contracts
2. 35+ player on a one-year contract
3. Player who has 400+ games in the NHL who spent 100+ days on IR in the last year of his contract, and is signing a one-year contract

Jarry does not qualify under any of the above.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Buyout window opens in 48 hours.

Might be first indication of Dubas' plans.

Can they buyout Sully though?

 

[cygnus47]

TLDR

I think the unspoken issue with goalie predictions is that it's at least 50% the system and shots given up. They all have weaknesses and if the shots they receive take advantage of those weaknesses they will be exposed.

The only way Jarry looks good here is if our system changes and we improve as a team imo. Murray got injured and tailed off after 2017, but the system we played changed in 2017-2018 and clearly he didn't cope with the change in shot locations.

Currently our system gives up loads of unpressured point shots through traffic and high to low movement rather than side to side or rush chances. I'm not sure which goalies are the best at that, but that's what we should be looking for.

 

[Peat]

I think the unspoken issue with goalie predictions is that it's at least 50% the system and shots given up. They all have weaknesses and if the shots they receive take advantage of those weaknesses they will be exposed.

The only way Jarry looks good here is if our system changes and we improve as a team imo. Murray got injured and tailed off after 2017, but the system we played changed in 2017-2018 and clearly he didn't cope with the change in shot locations.

Currently our system gives up loads of unpressured point shots through traffic and high to low movement rather than side to side or rush chances. I'm not sure which goalies are the best at that, but that's what we should be looking for.

Jarry is a two time All Star here. If that's not looking good, what is? I know it's not consistent, but it's still looking good.

Murray's .919 in 18-19, the last season he looked like a non-corpse, suggested he could cope with the system change too.

I think people are blaming the system, the org, the everything too much and ignoring the 50% that is the goalies. Murray got hit really hard mentally by his dad's death and then never ever stayed fit long enough to be consistent after 18-19, and that Jarry has taken a long time to learn something like consistency then got a slew of injuries that he tried to play through the moment it looked like he had learnt it and was ready for the final exam. Those will make any goalie look crap. That's the main thing to correct, although obviously it's uncorrectable since this org is cursed and the likelihood is whatever goalie we get will turn into a cripple too.

I'd also add that the Pens were a bit over average in terms of giving up rush chances last year and barring a major system change, that should be a consideration.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Can they buyout Sully though?

Nope. Instead, Dubas is going to wake up every morning and tinkle in your cereal, just to keep you enraged.

 

[Zbynek]

As unpopular of an opinion as it is among Penguins fans, I have really come around to the idea that the best option with the goalies is to just re-sign Jarry and bring in a big upgrade on DeSmith. Same exact thing the Penguins did in 2012 when they brought in Vokoun to be Fleury's backup after the Flyers series.

It's not that I want to keep Jarry but there really aren't many good options out there right now.

 

[Zbynek]

Frankly DeSmith shouldn't even be on the team next year, regardless of whether they keep Jarry or not.

All those stats you posted,and for some reason you're ignoring Jarry's career stats from the months of February onwards. He's one of the worst 1G's of his era that time of year. Maybe the worst?

DeSmith is way less of a problem than our 1G though sure, if we can jettison him too, great.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nope. Instead, Dubas is going to wake up every morning and tinkle in your cereal, just to keep you enraged.

I don't eat cereal, this isn't grade school you wanker.

The team definitely needs a new starter, at least. Preferably a new tandem.

But I'm really starting to lean into the idea of trying for a badass LD as top priority and going from there. Feel like the potential team impact far bigger.

And no I don't have any ideas. I'm not an ideas guy. I'm a "make a lot of noise until someone smarter than you comes up with a good suggestion" guy.

It's gonna be hilarious when Dumoulin is signed when they need to walk away.

 

[Zbynek]

What i dont get is this logical reasoning "oh but poor Hellebuyck! What is he going to do in 4 years when our HOF guys retire. Will somebody please think of his cup contention dreams well into his 30's!"

The answer is simple, we figure it out in 4 years.

A guy like this becomes available literally every once in a blue moon, you for ONCE have the cap to make it work and get Sid and Geno a Vezina goalie. The 14OA is a powerful piece and beats out what LA, CAR, TOR has to offer. Unless DET outbids us (And I don't see them giving up 9OA) we have a pretty good offer for them, and a cheap top-6 center option to offer them. Granlund is an easy and cheap plug for them for when PLD walks and allows them to focus on collecting more futures.

Yes, the Penguins have a window but we are still competitive and are still in it to win it, for now. Also, a 36 year old Sid and Geno is still better than a prime PLD+Scheifele combo. Our guys have won it before and they can do it again.

Get the Penguins their best goalie in the history of their franchise, pay with the cap space you for once have, and deal with Hellebuyck's qualms in 4-5 years if and when it comes to it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don't eat cereal, this isn't grade school you wanker.

Fine. He'll leave your breakfast unsullied, but there will be tiny photos of a smirking Mike Sullivan hidden around your residence.

You will never know where the next photo will pop up. And you will never know if you've removed them all.

Not until you accept that Mike Sullivan is here to stay...at least for a little while.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What i dont get is this logical reasoning "oh but poor Hellebuyck! What is he going to do in 4 years when our HOF guys retire. Will somebody please think of his cup contention dreams well into his 30's!"

The answer is simple, we figure it out in 4 years.

A guy like this becomes available literally every once in a blue moon, you for ONCE have the cap to make it work and get Sid and Geno a Vezina goalie. The 14OA is a powerful piece and beats out what LA, CAR, TOR has to offer. Unless DET outbids us (And I don't see them giving up 9OA) we have a pretty good offer for them, and a cheap top-6 center option to offer them. Granlund is an easy and cheap plug for them for when PLD walks and allows them to focus on collecting more futures.

Yes, the Penguins have a window but we are still competitive and are still in it to win it, for now. Also, a 36 year old Sid and Geno is still better than a prime PLD+Scheifele combo. Our guys have won it before and they can do it again.

Get the Penguins their best goalie in the history of their franchise, pay with the cap space you for once have, and deal with Hellebuyck's qualms in 4-5 years if and when it comes to it.

Uh, you can’t force Hellebuyck to re-sign here. The point of bringing up that contention window is saying that he won’t want to re-sign here because the Penguins remaining contending window is so short.

If Hellebuyck was under contract for longer, no shit that they should acquire him and deal with his issues with the team not contending later. But he’s not under contract and you can’t make him re-sign here. It has nothing to do with what the Penguins want, it’s bringing up that he very well may not want to commit his future to a team in the Penguins situation.

 

[Zbynek]

Uh, you can’t force Hellebuyck to re-sign here. The point of bringing up that contention window is saying that he won’t want to re-sign here because the Penguins remaining contending window is so short.

If Hellebuyck was under contract for longer, no shit that they should acquire him and deal with his issues with the team not contending later. But he’s not under contract and you can’t make him re-sign here. It has nothing to do with what the Penguins want, it’s bringing up that he very well may not want to commit his future to a team in the Penguins situation.

The last thing we need to do is allow this hypothetical to dissuade us from chasing Hellebuyck and slip back into the Jarry hole.

I didn't say force him, I said chase him with all you got.

I am going to post this one last time. People seemingly want to push this under the rug. Is it a coping mechanism?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Fine. He'll leave your breakfast unsullied, but there will be tiny photos of a smirking Mike Sullivan hidden around your residence.

You will never know where the next photo will pop up. And you will never know if you've removed them all.

Not until you accept that Mike Sullivan is here to stay...at least for a little while.

@Scandale du Jour @Zirakzigil

Isn't this violating the rules? He's threatened me with a future of more Sullivan.

The last thing we need to do is allow this hypothetical to dissuade us from chasing Hellebuyck and slip back into the Jarry hole.

I didn't say force him, I said chase him with all you got.

I am going to post this one last time. People seemingly want to push this under the rug. Is it a coping mechanism?

OK but do you have this for DeShart too? I'd like to know how the back up did with the same situation.

 

[Zbynek]

OK but do you have this for DeShart too? I'd like to know how the back up did with the same situation.

I'll take a look later and compare this. I want to update the numbers anyway as the above graphic was made before the '22/'23 season ended, so the '23 figures might even be worse.

I'm no fan of DeShitter, by any means, but changing the guy who plays 50-60 games will always make a bigger difference. I'm fully onboard for cleaning goalie house but Jarry decision needs to come first as he's the UFA.

 

[Zirakzigil]

@Scandale du Jour @Zirakzigil

Isn't this violating the rules? He's threatened me with a future of more Sullivan.


OK but do you have this for DeShart too? I'd like to know how the back up did with the same situation.

"It puts the Sully in fandom or else it gets the hose again"

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Lots of talk about if the Pens want to or should re-sign Jarry.

Not seeing any talk about any other teams trying to sign Jarry. I think that's the more likely scenario -- that Jarry leaves because some other team offers him more than the Pens are comfortable with.

 

[Zbynek]

OK but do you have this for DeShart too? I'd like to know how the back up did with the same situation.

Okay so i just spent like 45 mins crunching numbers from the game logs, and the findings are pretty damning to say the least.

Dubas I hope your analytics guys are paying attention.

 

[OnMyOwn]

The more I think about this, the more I believe Jarry will be back. I just don’t see who is an improvement over him? Maybe it’s a 1 year deal. Maybe we pull off a trade, I dunno. Just a gut feeling.

 

[K Fleur]

With Jarry you know what you have and it doesn’t work. Even if a replacement ends up worse I’ll be happy that they atleast tried something different.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

The more I think about this, the more I believe Jarry will be back. I just don’t see who is an improvement over him? Maybe it’s a 1 year deal. Maybe we pull off a trade, I dunno. Just a gut feeling.

I hope you're wrong, at this point I'd be happy trading back for Flower for 1 season and taking a risk. I'm done trusting Jarry, just no faith in him and his conditioning of the past few seasons now

 

[PensandCaps]

I aslo think the smart move is to bring back Jarry on the cheap and get a better platoon Vet.

Jarry is ultra talented, just needs to stay healthy. Getting a viable platoon partner would lighten the load.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Lots of talk about if the Pens want to or should re-sign Jarry.

Not seeing any talk about any other teams trying to sign Jarry. I think that's the more likely scenario -- that Jarry leaves because some other team offers him more than the Pens are comfortable with.

Makes sense, he's been hurt when it counts and unfortunately its been more than once.

I think he will be successful somewhere if he stays healthy and I hate talking about "injury prone" players because it can happen to anyone. There is alot of talk here comparing him to goaltenders that are well below his level of play and its not true but I get it. All people remember is what have you done for me lately.

The Pens should be gun-shy signing him for a big contract and rightfully so. End of the day as it was already said cleaning up the goaltender position should be towards the top of list for this team. How that's done IDK.

What I do know is if you sign Jarry to a long term contract with some coin and he gets hurt again it would be one of the worst moves in the history of the organization and they cant let that happen. The downsides outweigh the upside

 

[Andy99]

No…just don’t sign any forwards aged 30+ please…

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I aslo think the smart move is to bring back Jarry on the cheap and get a better platoon Vet.

Jarry is ultra talented, just needs to stay healthy. Getting a viable platoon partner would lighten the load.

I wouldn't mind it on the cheap but Jarry is likely going to get some money thrown at him from someone

No…just don’t sign any forwards aged 30+ please…

I was hoping for 1-1.5 less as a "I love it here discount lets win this thing for us old guys"

and for 3 years