Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Randy Butternubs]

The best thing this team can do in 5 years or whenever, is to suck top 5 in the league for about 3 years. Not 5, 6, 7 years straight. Get 3 top 5 picks and grab your C's or top D. Then go big game hunting with the 70+M in cap space you SHOULD have each year - along with future 1sts if necessary. Even if it takes a bit longer - that hunt would be exciting around here so long as we're not wasting assets and space on absolute mids.

Those pushing to get there need to realize that a single Sid or Malkin figure is extraordinarily rare in the NHL.....let alone 2. The next-next era (here's to hoping to a new 5 year era this Summer) is going to look different here.

As long as they're entertaining while losing I'm okay with this. Though Edmonton, Arizona, and the like are cautionary tales against tanking.

 

[Darren McCord]

The best thing this team can do in 5 years or whenever, is to suck top 5 in the league for about 3 years. Not 5, 6, 7 years straight. Get 3 top 5 picks and grab your C's or top D. Then go big game hunting with the 70+M in cap space you SHOULD have each year - along with future 1sts if necessary. Even if it takes a bit longer - that hunt would be exciting around here so long as we're not wasting assets and space on absolute mids.

Those pushing to get there need to realize that a single Sid or Malkin figure is extraordinarily rare in the NHL.....let alone 2. The next-next era (here's to hoping to a new 5 year era this Summer) is going to look different here.

Tell Buffalo that

2014 Reinhart #2 Pick
2015 Eichel #2 Pick
2018 Dahlin #1 Pick

there is your 3 in 5 years.

Sprinkle in like 6 other top 10 picks and they haven't made the playoffs yet.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

What he was, and what he is now doesnt really need to be the same, and the fact that he was the fastest player on the ice in the league this year should indicate he has more than enough speed. High IQ and sense is a positive no matter what though.

That's all fine. I was moreso addressing the low IQ. I am extremely surprised he was the fastest player in the league this past year.

I was watching him play and it didn't seem his speed was game breaking but his positioning and play was solid.

Just another reason he's someone I think is going to surprise a lot this season

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Tell Buffalo that

2014 Reinhart #2 Pick
2015 Eichel #2 Pick
2018 Dahlin #1 Pick

there is your 3 in 5 years.

Sprinkle in like 6 other top 10 picks and they haven't made the playoffs yet.

Correct we are spoiled as fans and extremely lucky to have the players we have seen in my lifetime wear the Jersey and be successful.

It isn't the norm.

Rebuilds sound cool until they aren't.

 

[vodeni]

Correct we are spoiled as fans and extremely lucky to have the players we have seen in my lifetime wear the Jersey and be successful.

It isn't the norm.

Rebuilds sound cool until they aren't.

I never stop being amazed how underappreciated Sid and Geno in terms of their production and more so how they are able to elevate other players around them. Year in year out for so many years. If they had better coaching in some of the Bylsma years and last few years of Sullyvan era, (injuries notwithstanding) they would have had even won even more, no doubt about that. That kind of dynamics is not happening anytime soon or ever again

 

[Deport Ogie]

To be vaguely sappy for a moment, even moreso than their talent as players we've been spoiled by Sid and Geno and their personality, being who they are.

Sid is the face of the league and has been since day one, essentially. He willingly takes on all the press, all the engagements, the overwhelming public availability and never once have we heard an even slightly negative thing about how he behaves in these situations. Oh and hey he's also the most consistently best player in a few decades.

Geno is a guy who is talented enough to be number 1 but knows he is number 2 . He's the guy who, off-ice, is the goofball with the broken english and yet on-ice is more invested and emotional, sometimes to his detriment, than almost any other player. He could have looked to go elsewhere and be a number one and I certainly don't think anyone would have blamed him much for that but instead, he decided to just be goofy and intense and hang out and try to win with his pals. And yes, make a ton of money to do so.

 

[SEALBound]

Tell Buffalo that

2014 Reinhart #2 Pick
2015 Eichel #2 Pick
2018 Dahlin #1 Pick

there is your 3 in 5 years.

Sprinkle in like 6 other top 10 picks and they haven't made the playoffs yet.

Yeah, you have to have a bit of luck when it comes to the draft cycles at a time when you suck. Penguins hit it beautifully. Oilers (sans 1), Buffalo, Arizona not so much.

Think of any 3 consecutive 1OV - sometimes you get MAF, Ovechkin, and Crosby. Sometimes you get Hall, RNH, Yakupov.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think you can build a balanced team without generational stars, like Nashville, the recent Kings (neither Kopitar nor Doughty is that guy anymore) or St. Louis. Deliberately failing is not necessarily the path forward. I think 18-19 year olds get ruined being counted on to be the savior of a crappy team.

 

[Andy99]

I think you can build a balanced team without generational stars, like Nashville, the recent Kings (neither Kopitar nor Doughty is that guy anymore) or St. Louis. Deliberately failing is not necessarily the path forward. I think 18-19 year olds get ruined being counted on to be the savior of a crappy team.

Vegas too…you have to have amazing depth though, a very good blue line and serviceable goaltending…in other words, too difficult for the Pens to get there in a couple years

 

[Pens x]

"Dude quit on this team".... Well, I see you are as empathetic as you are patient.

How did the whole we gotta be patient work out for you and the other fans that didn’t see Hextall was a fraud from day one?

2.5 seasons wasted by the builder, waiting on that patient approach.

 

[Peat]

As long as they're entertaining while losing I'm okay with this. Though Edmonton, Arizona, and the like are cautionary tales against tanking.

Tell Buffalo that

2014 Reinhart #2 Pick
2015 Eichel #2 Pick
2018 Dahlin #1 Pick

there is your 3 in 5 years.

Sprinkle in like 6 other top 10 picks and they haven't made the playoffs yet.

The thing is that while there's no end of scorched earth rebuilds that have gone horribly wrong, or had to be done twice, there's not so many teams that have won without one (not counting the recent expansion teams as their conditions are non-replicable). I think out of recent teams, only St Louis didn't feel like they won it because of going scorched earth as only Piet was a high St Louis pick... but even then, they'd have bad years. And Piet did come from them.

The coming rebuild is going to be hard and savage, and to no small extent Dubas is here in the hope that he builds the best hockey ops department around to minimise it.

 

[Peat]

I think you can build a balanced team without generational stars, like Nashville, the recent Kings (neither Kopitar nor Doughty is that guy anymore) or St. Louis. Deliberately failing is not necessarily the path forward. I think 18-19 year olds get ruined being counted on to be the savior of a crappy team.

The balanced teams without big name players generally get beat by the balanced teams that do have them. St Louis was an exception in a bit of a weak year for the playoffs, and they're also a bit of an exception in how brutal Armstrong is about selling off players, which has kept them rolling strong. Until last season. We'll see how quickly they recover.

Also let's be honest. Most tanking teams don't have to do it deliberately. It's happening already. A few embrace it and sell a bit more (Chicago). LA might look balanced without stars right now but they still went 4 out of 5 years picking no lower than 11 (with a lottery pick) between 2017 and 2021. We'll see how balanced and good they look like when they're no longer stacked with high end ELCs.

 

[Darren McCord]

The thing is that while there's no end of scorched earth rebuilds that have gone horribly wrong, or had to be done twice, there's not so many teams that have won without one (not counting the recent expansion teams as their conditions are non-replicable). I think out of recent teams, only St Louis didn't feel like they won it because of going scorched earth as only Piet was a high St Louis pick... but even then, they'd have bad years. And Piet did come from them.

The coming rebuild is going to be hard and savage, and to no small extent Dubas is here in the hope that he builds the best hockey ops department around to minimise it.

Vegas? Boston? Dallas could have easily done it this year if Ottinger didn’t crap the bed.

Buffalos rebuild has been awful and like 2 decades. Edmonton’s rebuild was like 15 years as well. They can absolutely go wrong.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, there's not often a Crosby or even a Malkin level player to be had at the top of the draft. It's not as simple as just being bad. You have to be bad at the right time. Our past rebuilds have been well timed to say the least.

 

[Peat]

Vegas? Boston? Dallas could have easily done it this year if Ottinger didn’t crap the bed.

Buffalos rebuild has been awful and like 2 decades. Edmonton’s rebuild was like 15 years as well. They can absolutely go wrong.

As I said, not counting expansion teams because of their unique and non-replicable circumstances.

Boston is a good example to be fair. But we'll see how they navigate their next period of possible suckage, which is coming real soon due to their centres (and Marchand) getting old.

I don't really believe in Dallas to do it when it matters.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The balanced teams without big name players generally get beat by the balanced teams that do have them. St Louis was an exception in a bit of a weak year for the playoffs, and they're also a bit of an exception in how brutal Armstrong is about selling off players, which has kept them rolling strong. Until last season. We'll see how quickly they recover.

Also let's be honest. Most tanking teams don't have to do it deliberately. It's happening already. A few embrace it and sell a bit more (Chicago). LA might look balanced without stars right now but they still went 4 out of 5 years picking no lower than 11 (with a lottery pick) between 2017 and 2021. We'll see how balanced and good they look like when they're no longer stacked with high end ELCs.

I'm fine just staying competitive and maybe popping up once in a while. And of course, having bad years a well.

Our current window has been closed for 2 years and we're still cosplaying like we could win a cup but content to just make the playoffs. I don't need to go scorched Earth because it incrementally improves the odds of winning the 2030 Stanley Cup.

 

[BigEezyE22]

What is probably just as informative as hits, blocked shots, etc. As long as there is no standardized measurement/counting in these areas, I would not rely on such values.

Imma try the standardized vernacular in court next time the 5-0 comes to me for Dunkin funds.

 

[Peat]

I'm fine just staying competitive and maybe popping up once in a while. And of course, having bad years a well.

Our current window has been closed for 2 years and we're still cosplaying like we could win a cup but content to just make the playoffs. I don't need to go scorched Earth because it incrementally improves the odds of winning the 2030 Stanley Cup.

I'm not arguing for going scorched earth today.

But the day is going to come when the choice is between finishing bottom ten, spending futures to try and make the playoffs, or selling what little we have and finishing bottom five. Probably comes the season after Sid hangs them up.

Once it's clear that's where we are, I'd like the team to sell and go scorched earth. If the team is still legit possibly making playoffs without going mad, that'll be different, but I think Dubas has a pretty big task on to manage that.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Can Elias Lindholm play RW? And is he as good as his points totals seem to indicate?

He can, but its a waste of his talent. If he was out east he would be looked at as the Bergeron heir.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not arguing for going scorched earth today.

But the day is going to come when the choice is between finishing bottom ten, spending futures to try and make the playoffs, or selling what little we have and finishing bottom five. Probably comes the season after Sid hangs them up.

Once it's clear that's where we are, I'd like the team to sell and go scorched earth. If the team is still legit possibly making playoffs without going mad, that'll be different, but I think Dubas has a pretty big task on to manage that.

I keep on referring back to the early aughts teams but realistically nothing like THAT is ever gonna happen again. It's a capped league and the team has a building and legit revenue streams. Not to mention a rich ownership group that just hired a hotshot to run the whole shebang. This isn't a team that is going to want to be down on the mat for half a decade or more. Plus regarding tanking... the way draft rules are set up now versus then make it much less a sure thing.

I definitely want the team to grab some primo picks once Sid/G retire... you gotta have some of those to properly reload and I hope once that time comes the team understands that. But league and team dynamics have changed so so much since the days I keep referencing.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

After reading the last 5 pages. The draft and free agency can not come fast enough.

Also I do not want to keep Bonino I'd rather target someone else to be on the bench. Carter and Bonino on a 4th line would be pain to watch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Regarding Poehling's speed, he has high top end speed but I never really got the impression that he played a fast style. Maybe it was just the guys he was being surrounded with, but I really never noticed him playing fast with the puck on his stick or on the attack with his linemates with any sort of regularity.

He clearly showed wheels at times last year, like with this goal:



But I just feel like he didn't play as fast as his skating speed suggests he should be playing.

 

[mephisto1812]

How did the whole we gotta be patient work out for you and the other fans that didn’t see Hextall was a fraud from day one?

2.5 seasons wasted by the builder, waiting on that patient approach.

I believe you missed the main point of my post, and what it says about your character. And for the record, I'll be plenty patient with Dubas.

 

[SEALBound]

Regarding Poehling's speed, he has high top end speed but I never really got the impression that he played a fast style. Maybe it was just the guys he was being surrounded with, but I really never noticed him playing fast with the puck on his stick or on the attack with his linemates with any sort of regularity.

He clearly showed wheels at times last year, like with this goal:



But I just feel like he didn't play as fast as his skating speed suggests he should be playing.

Yeah, good example to differentiate the "playing fast" vs "foot speed". There's also maybe a third category in there - "quickness".

You can play fast while having just above-average speed. You can play slow even though you have good top-end speed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Everyone in this system looks slow. Even guys that were/are suppose to be great skaters.

How weird.