Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[K Fleur]

I would have rather made the Jeannot trade then the Granlund trade. At least Jeannot has some element that this team is lacking. You can say it was a big overpay, but I’d rather overpay for something that’s missing vs making a panic move just for the sake of it

Yeah I agree. This team is definitely lacking in dudes that can’t score.

 

[Turin]

i think the media picked against us in both finals though! (or i'm wrong, but it sounds better, so don't f***ing correct me)

Everybody picked San Jose for some reason in 16 except for Pens fans and Metro fans who saw what the Pens were doing.

If he’s so good why is a team with weak LD depth trying to move him?

They’re taking calls on him because he’s got a year left and probably won’t sign an extension.

 

[Gurglesons]

San Jose and Nashville were real teams. Dallas was barely a real team who wouldn’t have made it that far if not for the bubble and Montreal was the dumbest Cup final opponent in league history.

Tampa had a powerhouse squad and a lot of that was because they had great player evaluation and a smart coach which allowed them to turn players like Coleman, Bogosian, Luke Schenn, etc into useful pieces that fit what the NHL is about TODAY. Versus Rutherford and Hextall with Sullivan focusing on what won us a cup in 16-17.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would just rather not do stupid trades over trying to say "I wouldn't do this stupid trade but I would do this stupid trade".

 

[Gurglesons]

Everybody picked San Jose for some reason in 16 except for Pens fans and Metro fans who saw what the Pens were doing.


They’re taking calls on him because he’s got a year left and probably won’t sign an extension.

Nah. It’s because he’s overrated due to his draft position and has been a mess for them when it matters most. Go ask any Flames fan.

 

[Turin]

Tampa had a powerhouse squad and a lot of that was because they had great player evaluation and a smart coach which allowed them to turn players like Coleman, Bogosian, Luke Schenn, etc into useful pieces that fit what the NHL is about TODAY. Versus Rutherford and Hextall with Sullivan focusing on what won us a cup in 16-17.

99% of it is Vasilevsky, Hedman, Kucherov and Point, and the fact that they won during the most illegitimate seasons in the NHL since WW2. That’s it, that’s the real narrative.

 

[Gurglesons]

99% of it is Vasilevsky, Hedman, Kucherov and Point, and the fact that they won during the most illegitimate seasons in the NHL since WW2. That’s it, that’s the real narrative.

Yes. They had those players.

They also made the right complimentary adds while we have been trying to add top six talent to play in the bottom six.

The illegitimate season BS is just cry baby stuff. Every team played in those circumstances. Tampa made three straight SCF.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

99% of it is Vasilevsky, Hedman, Kucherov and Point, and the fact that they won during the most illegitimate seasons in the NHL since WW2. That’s it, that’s the real narrative.

My only complaint is sitting 9.5 million Kucherov all season then he comes back game 1.

That team was strong though.
I am not shocked it won multiple cups. Then went to a 3rd final and lost to the Avalanche.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, I’m being harsh on Hanifin. He’s a good #3/4 guy, but his skill set is the opposite of what we need in our defense.

 

[Turin]

Yes. They had those players.

They also made the right complimentary adds while we have been trying to add top six talent to play in the bottom six.

The illegitimate season BS is just cry baby stuff. Every team played in those circumstances. Tampa made three straight SCF.

If I had to think of what the main problem Pittsburgh has had it’s definitely that they keep filling their bottom six with top six guys. Put down the bong it’s still morning in California.

 

[Gurglesons]

If I had to think of what the main problem Pittsburgh has had it’s definitely that they keep filling their bottom six with top six guys. Put down the bong it’s still morning in California.

Oh I forgot, everything is goaltending’s fault.

 

[Turin]

My only complaint is sitting 9.5 million Kucherov all season then he comes back game 1.

That team was strong though.
I am not shocked it won multiple cups. Then went to a 3rd final and lost to the Avalanche.

Of course it was strong they drafted elite players at every position. But their sustained run was because of bullshit scheduling, constant pauses and elite players - not because they traded all their picks for role players.

Oh I forgot, everything is goaltending’s fault.

There hasn’t been a top six player in the Pens bottom six since 2019 what are you on about. Just because a player sucks defensively like Kapanen doesn’t mean they’re a top six player.

 

[Gurglesons]

Of course it was strong they drafted elite players at every position. But their sustained run was because of bullshit scheduling, constant pauses and elite players - not because they traded all their picks for role players.


There hasn’t been a top six player in the Pens bottom six since 2019 what are you on about. Just because a player sucks defensively like Kapanen doesn’t mean they’re a top six player.

You’re missing the point as usual.

The Penguins brought in players like Jeff Carter, Mihkael Granlund, Kapanen, Brassard for years now to play “depth roles” when tha: not what they excel at.

Funny enough Kapanen was the best suited and our coach used him like a top six winger then got frustrated and treated him like a grinder.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like Hanifin is just a lesser version of Chychrun. Which I would certainly not complain about acquiring, but I'm also not sprinting to acquire that when he only has 1 year left on this deal.

 

[Pancakes]

You’re missing the point as usual.

The Penguins brought in players like Jeff Carter, Mihkael Granlund, Kapanen, Brassard for years now to play “depth roles” when tha: not what they excel at.

Funny enough Kapanen was the best suited and our coach used him like a top six winger then got frustrated and treated him like a grinder.

Jeff Carter was fine in a depth role up until age hit finally caught up with him this year. Brassard was a whiny bitch who didn't want to play 3c but he was capable of doing it. Just didn't want to.

Kapanen I agree should have been able to play the depth role but it's clear he lost almost all of his confidence here. I pin that one on Sullivan who I'm sure was ragging on him behind the scenes to play a grindier style.

Granlund is another example of being hit by the age hammer. Maybe he'll rebound. Probably better off buying him out though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jeff Carter was fine in a depth role up until age hit finally caught up with him this year. Brassard was a whiny bitch who didn't want to play 3c but he was capable of doing it. Just didn't want to.

Kapanen I agree should have been able to play the depth role but it's clear he lost almost all of his confidence here. I pin that one on Sullivan who I'm sure was ragging on him behind the scenes to play a grindier style.

Granlund is another example of being hit by the age hammer. Maybe he'll rebound. Probably better off buying him out though.

Eh, I don't know that I really agree with this. He was terrific for the Penguins after they acquired him, but he was never successful in a depth role after that. Carter was thriving as the Penguins 2C when Malkin was out, but then he absolutely fell off a cliff when he was forced into a pure defensive role.

Carter definitely regressed significantly, but I feel like his decline in play wasn't just due to him regressing. He was also put into a position to fail by Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like Hanifin is just a lesser version of Chychrun. Which I would certainly not complain about acquiring, but I'm also not sprinting to acquire that when he only has 1 year left on this deal.

Much worse offensively and an incredibly lazy looking player.

 

[TimmyD]

I would just rather not do stupid trades over trying to say "I wouldn't do this stupid trade but I would do this stupid trade".

How do we know the Jeannot trade was stupid yet though? I mean the guy only played half a season in Tampa and was hurt. Who’s to say that deal doesn’t look great by the end of this season?

 

[Empoleon8771]

How do we know the Jeannot trade was stupid yet though? I mean the guy only played half a season in Tampa and was hurt. Who’s to say that deal doesn’t look great by the end of this season?

Paying 5 draft picks for any depth player is absolute lunacy. The fact that it was a 1st-5th makes it even worse.

 

[Pancakes]

Eh, I don't know that I really agree with this. He was terrific for the Penguins after they acquired him, but he was never successful in a depth role after that. Carter was thriving as the Penguins 2C when Malkin was out, but then he absolutely fell off a cliff when he was forced into a pure defensive role.

Carter definitely regressed significantly, but I feel like his decline in play wasn't just due to him regressing. He was also put into a position to fail by Sullivan.

Zone start shit is overrated. Jeff Carter took like 60% of his shifts on the fly this year. The 20% d-zone starts certainly didn't help, but Carter sucked all the time, not just when he started in the d-zone.

As for his regression last year, that coincided with the entire team slumping down the stretch, and Carter was one of our best players once again in the playoffs.

 

[Gurglesons]

Paying 5 draft picks for any depth player is absolute lunacy. The fact that it was a 1st-5th makes it even worse.

It really isn’t. It is what makes sense. Every other league does it besides the NHL and the teams simply ponying up and paying the assets are usually the ones most successful.

Vegas is a prime example.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It really isn’t. It is what makes sense. Every other league does it besides the NHL and the teams simply ponying up and paying the assets are usually the ones most successful.

Vegas is a prime example.

When did Vegas ever trade 5 draft picks for a depth player?

Also, what other leagues have teams making those kind of moves? MLB doesn't allow teams to trade draft picks and NFL teams value draft picks arguably more than any other sport.

Zone start shit is overrated. Jeff Carter took like 60% of his shifts on the fly this year. The 20% d-zone starts certainly didn't help, but Carter sucked all the time, not just when he started in the d-zone.

As for his regression last year, that coincided with the entire team slumping down the stretch, and Carter was one of our best players once again in the playoffs.

It's not just zone starts, it also has to deal with usage. He changed from a prime offensive role to a prime defensive role. The expectations of what he would provide shifted dramatically away from what he was good at to what he wasn't good at.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also regarding Granlund, I think he has been regressing for years but his horrible performance in Pittsburgh is largely due to Sullivan once again putting a player in a position to fail. He has always been a cerebral playmaking winger that could sub in at center in a pinch. It's why his most successful years in Minnesota were when he was playing RW with Koivu and Zucker. He used to be really solid defensively (at least analytically), but that was him as a RW with a strong 2-way center in Koivu, not as a strong 2-way center himself.

Granlund has been declining for years though, his defensive metrics started slipping a bit around 2018-2019 but absolutely cratered in the 2020-2021 season. His offensive metrics fell off a cliff shortly after that, which brings us to now.

 

[Darren McCord]

He was hurt this year. He’ll be fine.

Only a fool would doubt the Lightning’s player evaluation.

Meh he wasn't injured in NSH

He is going to want like 4 if he takes a long term deal. Why would he sign for cheap with tampa?

 

[Pancakes]

It's not just zone starts, it also has to deal with usage. He changed from a prime offensive role to a prime defensive role. The expectations of what he would provide shifted dramatically away from what he was good at to what he wasn't good at.

He's been used as a two-way center his entire career. I went as far back as moneypuck goes (to 2008-09, when Carter was young and in his offensive prime). He started 16% of his shifts in the d-zone that year, second only to Mike Richards.

He took 3 minutes toi/game on the penalty kill that year which was only slightly less than Mike Richards did.

Carter has been known for his two-way ability his entire career.

It didn't work this year not because he doesn't know how to play that role but because he's old and he can no longer handle that responsibility. Of course he'd do better if you put him in primarily offensive situations, but do you really want Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin absorbing those defensive minutes instead? You're kinda damned if you do, damned if you don't with Carter. It's why we really need to pick up a solid 3c this year so Carter can be relegated to the 4th line and not asked to do as much.