Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Gurglesons]

I can already see it happening. Spend all your assets on a big name goalie. Big name goalie then stinks because you used all your assets up and the bottom 6 and defense sucks.

Then blame big name goalie.

Dubas has never really spent big assets on a goalie.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I know I'm probably just jaded at this point, but I don't want to spend big assets on a goalie either because I think the big(ger) issue is how this team plays defense.

Unless we're spending on a time machine to transport prime Dominik Hasek here, I think no matter who we bring in the team is going to struggle as long as Sullivan is coach and keeps running his "system".

 

[Gurglesons]

I know I'm probably just jaded at this point, but I don't want to spend big assets on a goalie either because I think the big(ger) issue is how this team plays defense.

Unless we're spending on a time machine to transport prime Dominik Hasek here, I think no matter who we bring in the team is going to struggle as long as Sullivan is coach and keeps running his "system".

It makes no sense to spend our very few major assets on goaltending.

 

[66-30-33]

Just go after Korpisalo and Swayman for next seasons goalie duo and fill other areas instead of give all assets for Helle as much as I like him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Just go after Korpisalo and Swayman for next seasons goalie duo and fill other areas instead of give all assets for Helle as much as I like him.

I don’t want Swayman either. System goalie. Guarantee he turns into Ned in Detroit wherever he goes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can already see it happening. Spend all your assets on a big name goalie. Big name goalie then stinks because you used all your assets up and the bottom 6 and defense sucks.

Then blame big name goalie.

The difference is that guys like Hellebuyck will actually be good behind a struggling team. That's the difference between the actual big name goalies and someone like Jarry.

 

[Peat]

I know I'm probably just jaded at this point, but I don't want to spend big assets on a goalie either because I think the big(ger) issue is how this team plays defense.

Unless we're spending on a time machine to transport prime Dominik Hasek here, I think no matter who we bring in the team is going to struggle as long as Sullivan is coach and keeps running his "system".

Jarry has been to the All Star game twice in Sully's system. Either he's a fantastic goalie and why are we debating bringing him back, or a goalie can get success with the system.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarry has been to the All Star game twice in Sully's system. Either he's a fantastic goalie and why are we debating bringing him back, or a goalie can get success with the system.

I mean frankly it probably is #1 and they're making a mistake letting him go.

I get why they'll probably end up moving on from Jarry but it will probably end up being a mistake.

 

[Andy99]

Jarry has been to the All Star game twice in Sully's system. Either he's a fantastic goalie and why are we debating bringing him back, or a goalie can get success with the system.

For short stretches, sure…notice Jarry was good enough for six weeks in Nov and Dec to get that nomination and then was below average when it matters Feb-Apr…the system does allow a lot of grade A shots when the D men don’t pinch wisely and we have too many stupid D men…but Jarry is free to make a save and win games any time lol

 

[Randy Butternubs]

There's not too many LDs in UFA that I'd be thrilled with. Which keeps me going back to Boston and Grzelcyk. I checked their board and saw that one of their posters suggested POJ for Griz.

edit: Another suggested letting Griz and Ullmark go just for picks/cap space. I'd try to get Griz for $3M and Ullmark for $4M. That clears $7M for Boston.

Also, is Calvin De Haan still an acceptable player?

 

[Gurglesons]

There's not too many LDs in UFA that I'd be thrilled with. Which keeps me going back to Boston and Grzelcyk. I checked their board and saw that one of their posters suggested POJ for Griz.

edit: Another suggested letting Griz and Ullmark go just for picks/cap space. I'd try to get Griz for $3M and Ullmark for $4M. That clears $7M for Boston.

Also, is Calvin De Haan still an acceptable player?

No

 

[cygnus47]

I'm not convinced they haven't.

PP1 has no dump/chase option in entries. Consequently, since opposing defenses don't have to respect their ability to throw the puck behind them they just crowd the blue line. The Penguins typically turn the puck over on a lateral 10-15 foot pass at the blueline.

Of course coaching isn't blameless. Sully has allowed PP1 to become an honorific title for pedigree vs. the most effective 5 man unit. Sully should have the power to change things because he's Mr. Lifetime Contract.

The PP1 has to become a weapon again. Not a momentum changer to the opposition. That demands more willingness to change than just swapping Rakell and Rust a bunch.

I mostly agree, but it’s hard to believe they’ve been coached in a focused way when they just stand around passing it without moving their feet game after game after game for years on end. It’s not complicated to skate to make 2 on 1s and have one or two weapons being set up. Eye test wise they don’t look like they know what they’re trying to do other than pass the puck and hope a defender forgets to cover a cross slot pass.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Jarry has been to the All Star game twice in Sully's system. Either he's a fantastic goalie and why are we debating bringing him back, or a goalie can get success with the system.

Jarry tends to get super hot for stretches and it usually coincides with leading up to the all-star game. It seems like he's always lights out from around November to January which is around when all-star teams are selected.

In any case, the fact he can't maintain that over a full season and we see huge stretches of equally bad play either a]indicates it's on Jarry for being incredibly Jekyll and Hyde or b]it's the system that requires a goalie to be absolutely on fire for him to succeed and will cave a goalie in if he's not at his absolute best.

 

[Peat]

Jarry tends to get super hot for stretches and it usually coincides with leading up to the all-star game. It seems like he's always lights out from around November to January which is around when all-star teams are selected.

In any case, the fact he can't maintain that over a full season and we see huge stretches of equally bad play either a]indicates it's on Jarry for being incredibly Jekyll and Hyde or b]it's the system that requires a goalie to be absolutely on fire for him to succeed and will cave a goalie in if he's not at his absolute best.

Roughly yes.

A would suggest the system can work, it just needs more consistent goalies.

B would suggest the fact Jarry can do anything indicates a rare talent level that would blossom in a more consistent place

(There are of course other explanations like a bit from column A, bit from column B, or the personnel suck and fail both, and so on, but I think that there is a base choice over what is predominantly going on given goaltending numbers).

 

[HandshakeLine]

It makes no sense to spend our very few major assets on goaltending.

I keep pointing this out, but people keep insisting that fixing this one thing will totally obscure all the bad other parts of the system, so why even bother anymore?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I keep pointing this out, but people keep insisting that fixing this one thing will totally obscure all the bad other parts of the system, so why even bother anymore?

Ok let's clarify how going after a quality goalie will cripple them then, from your guys' perspective. That was never outlined here.

1) How much will 1 year of Hellebuyck cost?
2) What other objectives cannot be addressed through free agency? What do they need to preserve assets for, that justifies having a worse starter?
3) What chips do the Pens actually have right now? If it's listed then we can see what remains after the goalie's dealt with.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just a reminder that Guentzel's 76 goals over the last 2 years is 14th in the NHL, and none of the guys ahead of him are coming here:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

He also had 8 goals in 7 playoff games in 2022, so unlike Neal, you can hardly sell moving him as a deal to improve in the playoffs.

Guentzel's the absolute last thing wrong with this team.

 

[MeinerEiner]

If you have the chance to bring in a goalie like Hellebuyck you do it. He might be the game changer the Pens need.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Just a reminder that Guentzel's 76 goals over the last 2 years is 14th in the NHL, and none of the guys ahead of him are coming here:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

He also had 8 goals in 7 playoff games in 2022, so unlike Neal, you can hardly sell moving him as a deal to improve in the playoffs.

Guentzel's the absolute last thing wrong with this team.

Guentzel was also the team's #1 shooter, during a year they were 31st in shooting and 24th the year before.
It's similar to how keen people were last summer to blow up the blue line after they finished 5th in the league in GA/G. This year they finished 19th after their changes, and missed the playoffs because of them.

Who's coming in here and doing more for the team with his 6M AAV? Will his replacement have chemistry with Sid?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Dubas has never really spent big assets on a goalie.

Nor has he ever provided a stable solution in net.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Nor has he ever provided a stable solution in net.

Nor has he ever GM'd the Penguins and their situation

There's not many "stable" goalies.

 

[K Fleur]

Guentzel was also the team's #1 shooter, during a year they were 31st in shooting and 24th the year before.
It's similar to how keen people were last summer to blow up the blue line after they finished 5th in the league in GA/G. This year they finished 19th after their changes, and missed the playoffs because of them.

Who's coming in here and doing more for the team with his 6M AAV? Will his replacement have chemistry with Sid?

Yeah a team that can’t finish to save it’s life moving it’s best finisher is a weird idea.

Though I do think the biggest way to move our finishing up from almost last in the league is a coaching change but you know…

 

[vodeni]

I mostly agree, but it’s hard to believe they’ve been coached in a focused way when they just stand around passing it without moving their feet game after game after game for years on end. It’s not complicated to skate to make 2 on 1s and have one or two weapons being set up. Eye test wise they don’t look like they know what they’re trying to do other than pass the puck and hope a defender forgets to cover a cross slot pass.

again...this what I don't get from people...if they don't move the feet, the coach should replace them with the ones that actually use legs...bench whoever you need to bench until every single player is committed 100%...Thats why they pay him big bucks to f***ing coach

 

[Andy99]

The issue with Jake isn’t that he isn’t good now or good for the Pens now…the issue is what to do with his expiring contract on a team that maybe has one year or two years of contention and he’s going to be turning 30 … we don’t have to sell him this summer but we should sell him by the trade deadline if we don’t look like a team capable of winning the Cup by then…get a first round pick back for him or a really good prospect or NHL player…he has a lot of value…I personally think we can sign or trade for a group of forwards that will more than make up for his production, especially considering he nets nearly the same number of EN goals than he does goals at ES lol…he’s small, has had injuries and is turning 30…sell high

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah a team that can’t finish to save it’s life moving it’s best finisher is a weird idea.

Though I do think the biggest way to move our finishing up from almost last in the league is a coaching change but you know…

Moving on From TB and Granlund would help too.

Shooting %
Granlund 2.6%
TB 3.2%


But ya the coach using the bottom 6 like trash doesn't help.