Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[ChaosAgent]

He has talent but just stay away…doesn’t have the drive or work ethic to be a really good player…two teams have tried to fix him and it hasn’t worked

Without knowing too much, he strikes me as all tools no toolbox.

Now his trademate Vrana, what an eff up for Hextall to not make a play. Idiot non attempt.

 

[Zbynek]

Hanafin is reportedly available and would look good next to Letang…I would trade Jake for him straight up…I know others would not (like Sid lol)

Rather just overpay Graves in UFA and keep Jake

Losing both Zuck and Guentzel in the same offseason... how do you propose we replace that production?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would ultimately be over the moon happy to see Hellebuyck as the Penguins goalie next year, but I know that trading for and re-signing Hellebuyck would guarantee the Penguins lose Guentzel after next year.

Also, I'm not sure that Hellebuyck would have much interest in re-signing in Pittsburgh. He's leaving Winnipeg because he wants to win a cup, but would the Penguins be in any better of a position to win a cup going forward? After next year, Crosby is only under contract for 1 more year and the Penguins have at most 2 years left with the core, if Crosby takes a 1 year deal to retire with Malkin.

 

[molon labe]

I would ultimately be over the moon happy to see Hellebuyck as the Penguins goalie next year, but I know that trading for and re-signing Hellebuyck would guarantee the Penguins lose Guentzel after next year.

Also, I'm not sure that Hellebuyck would have much interest in re-signing in Pittsburgh. He's leaving Winnipeg because he wants to win a cup, but would the Penguins be in any better of a position to win a cup going forward? After next year, Crosby is only under contract for 1 more year and the Penguins have at most 2 years left with the core, if Crosby takes a 1 year deal to retire with Malkin.

Why do we lose Guentzel? Unless you think he's getting some 10M deal or something...

Also, maybe Sid signs a few more years and for a discount WHILE the cap also rises.

Either way, subtle millions are precisely why I was advocating moving Petry for someone who costs 1-3M less at 2RD. Can go a long way in net, top 6, etc.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why do we lose Guentzel? Unless you think he's getting some 10M deal or something...

Also, maybe Sid signs a few more years and for a discount WHILE the cap also rises.

Either way, subtle millions are precisely why I was advocating moving Petry for someone who costs 1-3M less at 2RD. Can go a long way in net, top 6, etc.

I think Hellebuyck costs like $10 million to re-sign and Guentzel costs like $8 million to re-sign.

They need the cap to dramatically rise after this coming season for that to work.

 

[molon labe]

I think Hellebuyck costs like $10 million to re-sign and Guentzel costs like $8 million to re-sign.

They need the cap to dramatically rise after this coming season for that to work.

My money would be on 8 x 8 [for Helle]. Puts him at just shy of 110M career earnings if he stops at 38.

A) I just don't see GMs offering 10M+ for goalies for a while. It's going to take a backpack run by Shesterkin (lol) or another year of Bob doing really well in the postseason to shed some of the warts that have grown since he signed - for there to be some goalie insanity again.

B) I don't see any teams who are in on Helle - actually offering that. You have a few goalies available and with what has won over the past few years....you really only have Vasi taking claim to making a lot and he had a powerhouse in front of him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Actually, I might take back my concern about affording Hellebuyck long term after looking at their cap structure a bit more. If the Penguins get out of Granlund's deal this off-season, they'll be sitting with $42.5 million in cap space with a $87.5 million salary cap for 2024-2025 with 4 F (Crosby, Malkin, Rust and Rakell) and 4 D (Letang, Petry, Pettersson and Rutta) under contract. Including Smith, Poehling and O'Connor to fill depth roles takes that to probably around $40 million in cap space.

Assuming Guentzel and Hellebuyck come in at $18 million combined (using this to be conservative), that leaves the Penguins with $22 million in cap space with needing a 2nd line LW, an entire 3rd line, a 4th line RW, 2 extra F, a 2nd pair LD, an extra defenseman and a backup goalie. Filling those depth roles (meaning extras, 4th line and backup goalie) for $5 million combined leaves the Penguins with $17 million in cap space for a 2nd line LW, an entire 3rd line and a 2nd pair LD. That seems doable to me.

 

[Fordy]

they should move heaven and earth for hellebuyck. they'll make the playoffs off of his impact alone

 

[Pens x]

they should move heaven and earth for hellebuyck. they'll make the playoffs off of his impact alone

But then Sully couldn’t blame poor goaltending. He’d have to think of another excuse to convince the idiots from Boston and the media it wasn’t his fault.

 

[Andy99]

Rather just overpay Graves in UFA and keep Jake

Losing both Zuck and Guentzel in the same offseason... how do you propose we replace that production?

Barbashev, Bunting, Compher

 

[ChaosAgent]

I would ultimately be over the moon happy to see Hellebuyck as the Penguins goalie next year, but I know that trading for and re-signing Hellebuyck would guarantee the Penguins lose Guentzel after next year.

Honestly that is fine. Guentzel's upcoming 8/$68M deal is going to be gross.

 

[mephisto1812]

I’m way late on this response, but I makes me wonder in a parallel universe what it looks like if Hextall had picked up Granlund at what everyone assumed he would be when we forked over a 2nd: something like 40-50% retained.

All these top 6 lineups with Granlund in the mix look a lot more palatable in my mind when he’s on 2.5 or 3 m. Then, if his production returns to Nashville levels, suddenly you have a middle six bargain for 3 years, rather than the buyout candidate we have.

Even if his salary was offset by 40-50 percent, I still find every way I can to eject him into the sun.

Hanafin is reportedly available and would look good next to Letang…I would trade Jake for him straight up…I know others would not (like Sid lol)

Perhaps this would be something along the lines of a shock to the core that this team needs, KD needs to change the dynamic, and he may need to make it in a statement sort of way.

 

[K Fleur]

Barbashev, Bunting, Compher

Hoping to replace Guentzel with those guys would be great because we’d know for sure we weren’t making the playoffs by mid November.

 

[Andy99]

Hoping to replace Guentzel with those guys would be great because we’d know for sure we weren’t making the playoffs by mid November.

Yeah, I mean I’d say Mercer or Bratt but we aren’t getting them lol…being realistic, we have to replace Jake’s production by committee…that’s fine because even if we know by November that the POs are out, all the better for getting good returns on expiring contracts…I have zero interest in signing Jake to his next contract at 8x8 lol

 

[Pancakes]

Honestly that is fine. Guentzel's upcoming 8/$68M deal is going to be gross.

No offense but I don't understand these complaints. Nothing about Guentzel's game is based on speed or physicality. I see no reason why he can't continue to be an effective player for a while.

I'd trade him if someone offered a haul but I have no reservations about giving him a good contract either.

 

[K Fleur]

You move Guentzel for anything other than a top line winger and you should be in sell mode. Which is fine but don’t pretend trading Guentzel helps “shock the core” into being better or something. They’re like 40. The only thing you could shock them into is retirement.

All a trade like Guentzel for Hanafin does is make us a team that’s best winger is now Rikard Rakell on a team that’s best players are 35+ year old centers.

Lol.

 

[ChaosAgent]

No offense but I don't understand these complaints. Nothing about Guentzel's game is based on speed or physicality. I see no reason why he can't continue to be an effective player for a while.

I'd trade him if someone offered a haul but I have no reservations about giving him a good contract either.

I get what you're saying. However, just because speed isn't his best trait does not mean a loss of speed won't hurt him. It hurts every player.

Having said that, I've been interested in Jeff Skinner and Guentzel is a similar player. Skinner's contract is movable for value, as high as it is.

So I will accept your counterargument, sire. Pay Guentzel, just don't load the contract with crazy trade protections (please Kyle).

 

[Pancakes]

I get what you're saying. However, just because speed isn't his best trait does not mean a loss of speed won't hurt him. It hurts every player.

Having said that, I've been interested in Jeff Skinner and Guentzel is a similar player. Skinner's contract is movable for value, as high as it is.

So I will accept your counterargument, sire. Pay Guentzel, just don't load the contract with crazy trade protections (please Kyle).

True. A guy with low speed losing even more can be a problem. Happened to Dany Heatley.

I'd be open on anything with Guentzel but if you move him it has to be a home run of a deal because he's the youngest elite (or borderline elite depending on how you look at it) player left.

 

[ChaosAgent]

True. A guy with low speed losing even more can be a problem. Happened to Dany Heatley.

Heatley lost like all of his speed really quickly. Instantly.

...I'll see myself out. Sorry mods.

 

[Andy99]

You move Guentzel for anything other than a top line winger and you should be in sell mode. Which is fine but don’t pretend trading Guentzel helps “shock the core” into being better or something. They’re like 40. The only thing you could shock them into is retirement.

All a trade like Guentzel for Hanafin does is make us a team that’s best winger is now Rikard Rakell on a team that’s best players are 35+ year old centers.

Lol.

Yeah, you’re not getting a top line winger back for Jake…you’re getting a top 4 D, like Hanafin, or you’re getting a not as productive middle six winger or a prospect who has the chance to develop into a Guentzel…if we traded Jake, we’d likely have to replace him in the UFA market unless you get a RFA back, but in either case it’s with a player who will not be a 40-goal scorer.,.hopefully we can select a current or upcoming NHL player who will reach 30 next to Sid

 

[Ulf5]

Barbashev, Bunting, Compher

That's 7 LESS goals than just Jake and Zuck, not accounting for the 3rd part of that replacement.
And Compher isn't sniffing 20:00+ atoi here.

 

[Andy99]

That's 7 LESS goals than just Jake and Zuck, not accounting for the 3rd part of that replacement.
And Compher isn't sniffing 20:00+ atoi here.

Well we should be getting a lot more goals from our defense and bottom six as well next season if Dubas can work his magic…can’t be worse than what we got this season from both of those, just historically bad…a more balanced lineup will more than offset loss of Jake

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

When it's time to move Jake, you're pulling the plug on this era's life support imo. You're not improving in the here and now with a Jake trade, and I say that as someone who thinks Jake's a purely sidecar winger.

You're not getting somebody like Bratt or Mercer for Jake, especially since they're from a team within the divison. You're not getting a prospect with enough upside who is NHL ready to make a difference in the two years Sid has left. You're not getting a Neal for Hornqvist move that changes the style of the team in a way meaningful enough to make up for the probable production drop off.

They're 100% gonna hold on to him and re-sign him to some dumb contract (too long, too much money, too restrictive a NTC), which they will be cratering the value of the one, single valuable asset this team has anymore as the organization's teetering on the brink of a rebuild.

 

[Gurglesons]

When it's time to move Jake, you're pulling the plug on this era's life support imo. You're not improving in the here and now with a Jake trade, and I say that as someone who thinks Jake's a purely sidecar winger.

You're not getting somebody like Bratt or Mercer for Jake, especially since they're from a team within the divison. You're not getting a prospect with enough upside who is NHL ready to make a difference in the two years Sid has left. You're not getting a Neal for Hornqvist move that changes the style of the team in a way meaningful enough to make up for the probable production drop off.

They're 100% gonna hold on to him and re-sign him to some dumb contract (too long, too much money, too restrictive a NTC), which they will be cratering the value of the one, single valuable asset this team has anymore as the organization's teetering on the brink of a rebuild.

Calgary got someone like Tkachuk for Huberdeau ++. We may not get Tkachuk, but could potentially get something similar to Jake with a different skill set.

 

[eXile3]

I can already see it happening. Spend all your assets on a big name goalie. Big name goalie then stinks because you used all your assets up and the bottom 6 and defense sucks.

Then blame big name goalie.