Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[TheGoldenJet]

Hopefully Zucker signs a lucrative deal…elsewhere.

 

[66-30-33]

Sign me up for Trent Frederic in the bottom 6

What about Hathaway? UFA and could be good for the bottom 6.

 

[Deport Ogie]

To be fair they already have had a ahitty goalie duo the last few years. Well, at least when it mattered most.

Be fair, with all the injuries it'd be more true to say a shitty goalie trio or quartet.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just saw this on reddit about Connor Garland:

Scoop: The Canucks are in salary cap jail and they know it. The rest of their summer plans cannot be enacted until they free up salary cap space, and they’ve been actively checking prices on Garland as their preference to move to alleviate their cap concerns. Garland, who played for Rick Tocchet in Arizona, is a scrappy but undersized winger who has struggled to find a comfortable fit in the Lower Mainland. With three years left at nearly $5 million, will a team take a flier? He’s essentially a free asset, as the Canucks have found teams that are asking for assets in return to take him off their hands.

I really like Garland but I honestly don't see where he'd play on this team, unless they're moving Rakell to LW. But with that being said, I'd absolutely love to get like a 2nd or 3rd to take on Garland's deal and then use that pick plus a bit more to dump Granlund on someone else.

 

[Jacob]

With guaranteed contracts and the cap you’re limited in how much you can really alter a team’s makeup in 1 summer. We’re fortunate that our goaltending has sucked AND we’re not locked in to either of them (DeSmith is easily moveable and not a huge cap issue anyway). No need to overthink it, Jarry hasn’t worked, move on.

 

[Pancakes]

Just saw this on reddit about Connor Garland:



I really like Garland but I honestly don't see where he'd play on this team, unless they're moving Rakell to LW. But with that being said, I'd absolutely love to get like a 2nd or 3rd to take on Garland's deal and then use that pick plus a bit more to dump Granlund on someone else.

Graland would be useful anywhere in the top 9. Be a nice player to have.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Graland would be useful anywhere in the top 9. Be a nice player to have.

He doesn't play LW and I don't think he fits how Sullivan wants to use his 3rd line. Miscasting Garland in a 3rd line role is the exact reason his value is negative for Vancouver right now.

I think you'd run with Guentzel-Crosby-Garland and Rakell-Malkin-Rust in that situation. But beyond that, I don't see a role for Garland that I like all that much. You have to move Rakell to LW and have Garland as a top-6 RW.

 

[Turin]

Sign Bunting
Trade for Garland (for basically nothing)
Sign Hathaway
Trade away Granlund
Look at trade market for Scheifele or DeBrincat for PP1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sign Bunting
Trade for Garland (for basically nothing)
Sign Hathaway
Trade away Granlund
Look at trade market for Scheifele or DeBrincat for PP1.

Is one of those guys going to play goalie for the Penguins next year?

 

[Turin]

Is one of those guys going to play goalie for the Penguins next year?

Goalies aren't real

 

[Empoleon8771]

One more try for a roster:

-Trade 1: POJ and a 2024 2nd to Boston for Ullmark
-Trade 2: Granlund and pick #14 to Chicago for pick #19
-Trade 3: Puustinen's RFA rights to Vancouver for Garland and Toronto's 2023 3rd
-Trade 4: DeSmith to Ottawa for Ottawa's 2023 4th

Guentzel-Crosby-Garland
Rakell-Malkin-Rust
XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXXX
O'Connor-Poehling-Carter

Pettersson-Letang
XXXXXX-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Ruhwedel

Ullmark-XXXXXX

You have like $14.5 million to fill out this lineup. You really should be able to fill those remaining holes with that kind of money.

 

[Andy99]

Ullmark was 19th in GSAx the year prior, eight spots below Jarry. Jarry was 76th this year. GSAx evaluates the here and now, it is not an indicator of future success. It really means nothing in trying to determine what is the best fit for the Penguins.

I bring up Jarry, because you're replacing him by trading for Ullmark. In doing so, your goal should be to A) Reduce cost in goal; B) Improve consistency in performance; and/or C) Change the style of goaltender, i.e. going bigger in exchange for less athleticism.

Acquiring Ullmark costs a valuable player and a valuable pick, plus his cap hit of $5 million.
Keeping Jarry costs his projected cap hit of likely around $5 million, give or take.

Ullmark has one season of outstanding play, and he completely fell apart - either due to ineffectiveness or the unreported injury - in the playoffs. How is he different from Jarry?

If the Pens are moving on from Jarry, I want more cost certainty. I want consistency and durability, even if it means needing two goaltenders to share the load evenly. If you can't address that, I'd rather keep Jarry, because it makes the most sense from an asset standpoint.

And, frankly, I'd rather not use assets other than cap space to acquire goaltending, given its unpredictable nature and the rapidly closing competitive window. I'd much rather sign UFA goalies and use assets like POJ/Smith/picks to fill other holes.

You forgot the biggest part of a move from Jarry to Ullmark: you have Ullmark for two more seasons of Sid’s window whereas Jarry wants 5-6 year term…so it’s not apples to apples…he’s gonna cost a $25 M contract overall, even if you’re saying they’re about equal as goaltenders … the switch to Ullmark is also not going cost that much…the benefit to Boston is dumping the cap hit…he’ll likely be traded for a 3rd, maybe a 2nd if there are multiple suitors

 

[Peat]

You forgot the biggest part of a move from Jarry to Ullmark: you have Ullmark for two more seasons of Sid’s window whereas Jarry wants 5-6 year term…so it’s not apples to apples…he’s gonna cost a $25 M contract overall, even if you’re saying they’re about equal as goaltenders … the switch to Ullmark is also not going cost that much…the benefit to Boston is dumping the cap hit…he’ll likely be traded for a 3rd, maybe a 2nd if there are multiple suitors

If Jarry's worth the money for one year, then the long term contract is a plus. Cap is likely to move a whole ton up and at 28, a long term contract probably isn't going to take him into his graveyard years. Hell, there's a chance he'd be an asset when Sid et al are done.

There's a big if there given I'm not sure I trust a goalie with hip issues, but handing out term to a decent goalie seems like a non-issue.

Incidentally, given Jarry's age and current situation, he is a screamingly obvious candidate for one of those two year deals we're seeing.

 

[Andy99]

If Jarry's worth the money for one year, then the long term contract is a plus. Cap is likely to move a whole ton up and at 28, a long term contract probably isn't going to take him into his graveyard years. Hell, there's a chance he'd be an asset when Sid et al are done.

There's a big if there given I'm not sure I trust a goalie with hip issues, but handing out term to a decent goalie seems like a non-issue.

Incidentally, given Jarry's age and current situation, he is a screamingly obvious candidate for one of those two year deals we're seeing.

Yeah 3-4 year term is most I’d go for a goalie and we can all see why

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Delete

 

[MayorofWBS]

Conor Garland - another midget just what we needed

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Conor Garland - another midget just what we needed

But is he fast... it's all we need. Our PP was f***ing horrible because we had some slow skaters. Our Defense... you got it slow Skaters?

Hell... Jarry is super slow... that's why he sucks in goal.

 

[Gurglesons]

Conor Garland - another midget just what we needed

He’s Phil Kessel at 5v5 per 60 or something.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Delete

 

[Empoleon8771]

They should only sign players with big dicks. Just go to free agency, demand their measurements and decide who to sign based on that.

 

[Turin]

I mean if teams are paying me to take a good player whos in his prime who’s like 500k overpaid I definitely think about it.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But is he fast... it's all we need. Our PP was f***ing horrible because we had some slow skaters. Our Defense... you got it slow Skaters?

Hell... Jarry is super slow... that's why he sucks in goal.

Our powerplay actually was horrible because we have slow skaters.

Jeff Carter's size was instrumental in winning last year
It was evident when the announcer said BIG Jeff Carter.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Delete

 

[Peat]

Yeah 3-4 year term is most I’d go for a goalie and we can all see why

That should be true of 95% of NHLers and yet the norm for NHL contracts means 5-6 years is de rigueur.

I have no more problem taking a necessary gamble on those 5-6 year contracts for a good goalie than I do for Rust, Rakell, Marcus Pettersson, and so on. And while I am loud about my mistrust of goalies in terms of paying premium prices because you can't guarantee premium performance, I'd no problem treating a goalie like a top 6/top 4 player because there are goalies who you can guarantee will give a non trainwreck team a chance 4 seasons out of 5. That level of resource spend is worth it.

 

[Zbynek]

He missed a month in 2020-21 with a leg injury, among other issues in his career. Given his workload, it's a concern. Not a dealbreaker, but a concern, given the Penguins' recent issues.

He's going to win the Vezina, but his performance was severely influenced by the way Boston plays. Swayman also had ridiculous numbers and actually had double the shutouts.

On a different team, Ullmark's numbers come back to earth and he does not have the resume that compels me to move assets for him.

GOALIE A:
207 games, 116-63-16, .919 SV%, 2.50 GAA
8 playoff games, 3-5-0, .888 SV%, 3.54 GAA

GOALIE B:
206 games, 117-60-20, .914 SV%, 2.65 GAA
8 playoff games, 2-6-0, .891 SV%, 3.71 GAA

Goalie A is Ullmark.
Goalie B is Tristan Jarry.

What you are proposing is terrible asset management with zero actual improvement at the position.

Couple of thoughts here
-Ullmark had all the tough/crucial matchups, so to have better stats over his career and also this past season (1.89 + .938 vs 2.27 + .920 in 2023) is impressive
-Same point also explains why Swayman would get more shutouts, he got the easier games
-These points also contradict the "systems" argument, if the system is the reason for his Vezina performance, why was there a .38 GAA and .018 % difference at all, especially when Ullmark got the tougher matchups?

Yea i dunno, I just don't love the system argument. No matter how you slice it the guy is about to win the Vezina. Saying anyone in his position could have done that is sort of an insult to the great season he just had. I didn't watch all the Bruins games but I did watch Ullmark dominate us and help Bruins collect points every time he played the Pens.

It just doesn't seem right to think a Vezina winner will come back to earth in Pittsburgh, but feel confident rolling with a Varlomov+Korpisalo pairing. Just feels like rolling the dice on another Jarry/DeSmith combo to me.

And last point, and maybe the most important one of all. Ullmark's contract lines up pretty much perfectly to our window (2 years) at an incredible value (5 million). While I like Helle, we basically only get one chance with him in '23/'24 and then we either let him walk or sign him to a big extension. With Ullmark we have 2 years to assess the situation again in 2025. Big difference.