Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Goalie_Bob]

Yeah like the Hawks have so much cap space that they still have the ability to basically take on every contract dump realistically in the market, the Athanasiou contract is just a bit weird though because they're giving him an equivalent "bad contract" while getting nothing for it. Like 2 years at $4.25 million for Athanasiou seems like the kind of deal a good team would be trying to get out of, but they just gave it to Athanasiou for shits and giggles.

Before this deal with AA. The Hawks had zero forwards signed for 24-25.

They have to start to fill out the roster. They can’t just fill it out with league min guys. They have to hit the cap min and they are like 50mil under the Cap Min for 24-25. And if they want to trade a player, they cant go under the Cap Min to do it.

I'd offer the Penguins 2024 1st and New Jersey's 2023 3rd (which they have right now) for Swayman at the draft and basically say "if you won't take this, we're going to offersheet Swayman the second free agency opens".

You do know Swayman has to sign the offer sheet for it to mean anything?

 

[Empoleon8771]

You do know Swayman has to sign the offer sheet for it to mean anything?

And why wouldn't he sign a long term, $5.5 million AAV deal or so?

I think we'd have to add to that. Someone would outbid us. Swayman's near the top of the goalie market, is young and healthy, and has a very bright future. There's too little quality to go around for all the hungry potential suitors.

The deal is basically DeSmith and #14 for Swayman, which is good value for Boston, but Hall is the "cap casualty" for Boston like McDonagh was for Tampa Bay or Pacioretty was for Vegas.

I don't think there are any teams who would offer something better than #14 overall for Swayman. That's terrific value for Boston. The only goalie I can remember who brought back more than that was Schneider, and the 2023 draft is way better than the draft where Schneider got #9 overall.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

And why wouldn't he sign a long term, $5.5 million AAV deal or so?

Because he is going to sign that deal with Boston. And then they trade Ullmark.

This whole narrative that Boston can’t trade Ullmark is hogwash.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would we give up that much and pay Swayman a ton?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because he is going to sign that deal with Boston. And then they trade Ullmark.

This whole narrative that Boston can’t trade Ullmark is hogwash.

He has a full NMC until July 1st and then a 15 team NTC after. It's really not nearly as much of a given as you're suggesting that they'll be able to trade him.

But if they want to trade him, sure I'll take him for nothing instead of offersheeting Swayman. I'm totally fine with that as well. The two outcomes I see for Boston's goalies is that either Swayman gets offersheeted or traded for a package similar to his offersheet or Ullmark gets traded for basically nothing out of necessity.

Why would we give up that much and pay Swayman a ton?

Because Swayman is a really damn good young goalie and the Penguins are getting absolutely incredible value in the trade by also getting Hall back as Boston's cap casualty.

I get that people on here don't want to pay goalies or trade anything of value for goalies, but if you can get that kind of value in a deal, you do it instantly.

 

[Gurglesons]

He has a full NMC until July 1st and then a 15 team NTC after. It's really not nearly as much of a given as you're suggesting that they'll be able to trade him.

But if they want to trade him, sure I'll take him for nothing instead of offersheeting Swayman. I'm totally fine with that as well. The two outcomes I see for Boston's goalies is that either Swayman gets offersheeted or traded for a package similar to his offersheet or Ullmark gets traded for basically nothing out of necessity.



Because Swayman is a really damn good young goalie and the Penguins are getting absolutely incredible value in the trade by also getting Hall back as Boston's cap casualty.

I get that people on here don't want to pay goalies or trade anything of value for goalies, but if you can get that kind of value in a deal, you do it instantly.

I’m simply not wanting to give up the 14th overall for a goalie. Swayman probably gets lit up behind Mike Sullivan’s idea of defense.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m simply not wanting to give up the 14th overall for a goalie. Swayman probably gets lit up behind Mike Sullivan’s idea of defense.

You're not just giving up 14th overall for Swayman, you're getting Hall as well.

I wouldn't just do 14th overall and DeSmith for Swayman, but if the deal also includes the Penguins being the lucky team in getting Hall for nothing? Hell yes I'm doing that. Hall isn't what he once was, but adding Hall is a potential Kessel-like addition for Malkin's line.

The concept here is that you're giving up a really good return for Swayman in exchange for being the team that gets to poach a great player from Boston for nothing.

 

[Peat]

I proposed a deal on the main board that I think I'm going to get absolutely grilled for: DeSmith and 14th overall for Swayman and Hall. I think it makes sense in the context of how bad Boston's cap situation is, but I doubt most fans will view it like that.

I have no idea of what Hall's game looks like these days but I potentially like it. But Hall is the main attraction to me.

I think we'd have to add to that. Someone would outbid us. Swayman's near the top of the goalie market, is young and healthy, and has a very bright future. There's too little quality to go around for all the hungry potential suitors.

Overall value? Probably. But in terms of biggest piece? I doubt it. And biggest piece tends to command a lot of respect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have no idea of what Hall's game looks like these days but I potentially like it. But Hall is the main attraction to me.

I'm actually surprised because the main board is pretty much unanimously saying it's a good deal for Boston and at least makes sense for the Penguins.

Like I said, I wouldn't do #14 for Swayman in isolation. But if that meant the Penguins also were the lucky team to get Hall for nothing, like Nashville got McDonagh for nothing a year ago? Then I would absolutely want to do it.

The deal to me is basically like giving Boston a terrific return for Swayman in exchange for them picking you instead of someone else to clear out cap with.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're not just giving up 14th overall for Swayman, you're getting Hall as well.

I wouldn't just do 14th overall and DeSmith for Swayman, but if the deal also includes the Penguins being the lucky team in getting Hall for nothing? Hell yes I'm doing that. Hall isn't what he once was, but adding Hall is a potential Kessel-like addition for Malkin's line.

Hall is not a Kessel like player at this point in his career.

I’m not even sure he’d be better than Zucker was last season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hall is not a Kessel like player at this point in his career.

I’m not even sure he’d be better than Zucker was last season.

Lol

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Why would we give up that much and pay Swayman a ton?

Right, I mean we want more stability at the goaltender position. Is Swayman the answer there? I think he still has alot to prove and throwing a 1st at him with a contract.........thats exactly what I dont want to be doing here.

Edit: I seen he had Hall in there, I dont mind Hall.......has been banged up a little the last few years so he'd fit right in.

In all seriousness though, I wouldn't mind a Hall addition, he can play when healthy, I am just not sold on a Swayman contract. He could fall flat on his face, I dont even know that hes any better than Jarry

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol

He’s been pretty mediocre at 5v5 for a few years. Had a good season last year, but I don’t see the Kessel comparison.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He’s been pretty mediocre at 5v5 for a few years. Had a good season last year, but I don’t see the Kessel comparison.

Since coming to Boston, he has a 2.21 5v5 points/60. That's really good, it's basically the same as Guentzel (2.13) and Malkin (2.23) over that window.

I think Hall would be the closest thing to giving Malkin a winger who can drive play that you can possibly acquire right now. Someone like Bunting or Barbashev would just be a complementary guy for Malkin, I think Hall would actually help Malkin drive offense.

His overall numbers look kinda mediocre due to his usage in Boston, but his 5v5 production is really good. I've obviously been a big fan of Swayman on here for a while, but getting Hall as well is just too good of an opportunity for me to pass up on. If it's Hall vs Bunting, I'm picking Hall 100% of the time and I'm a huge Bunting fan.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Yeah, I'll take Ullmark OR Swayman. I think Ullmark knows he's a potential trade piece and will work with Boston maybe giving a 10 team list.

And I wouldn't mind Hall. But not Hall at $6M.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it's more that offersheets so rarely work and the negative reptuation for offersheeting someone isn't worth it when it's inevitable that it's going to fail. But Swayman in Boston? He's practically begging to get an offersheet this off-season. They can't even trade Ullmark unless Ullmark allows it.

I think Swayman ends up getting traded at the draft for a return similar to what his offersheet compensation would look like. Boston did the same exact thing in the past when they traded Dougie Hamilton when he was at risk of getting an offersheet.

I'd offer the Penguins 2024 1st and New Jersey's 2023 3rd (which they have right now) for Swayman at the draft and basically say "if you won't take this, we're going to offersheet Swayman the second free agency opens".

Yeah, that's what I mean. It makes guys so angry and there's an element of "I won't forget this!" to the whole thing and it's like... It's there, it's an option. Don't be a bitch about another team using a completely legal and available method to try and improve their team.

But like you said, there's a whole stigma to it and guys get this scarlet letter for trying that it becomes so rare that they might as well just eliminate the option entirely.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, I'll take Ullmark OR Swayman. I think Ullmark knows he's a potential trade piece and will work with Boston maybe giving a 10 team list.

And I wouldn't mind Hall. But not Hall at $6M.

It kinda sucks the Penguins don't have more picks to play with, because I'd rather trade a 2nd for Ullmark over a 1st for Swayman. I don't even know that Ullmark would bring that back, the last player in his situation was traded for nothing when Vegas dumped Fleury and kept Lehner. But I think you'd have to pay to convince Boston to trade him here instead of somewhere in the West, which makes things more complicated.

Then again, you could possibly just dangle POJ for Ullmark and I think they might bite on that. It sounds like they're going to gut their LD depth as a way to gain some cap space, so I think he could have a useful role in Boston like that.

 

[DrDangles]

You don't have plenty of time though. You can't buy out during the season. if you dont buy him out and he sucks you are attaching assets to move him.

Buy him out. The cap hit is miniscule next year. When it goes up to 2million the cap should be going up by like 4mill.

He can still be moved during the season, which is even much more likely this offseason than a buyout.

If he's not working out by December, then pay assets to move him. Don't spend in the offseason after 20 games of Sullivan not even utilizing him properly. Use the playmaking winger in a top 6 role, don't try to force him into being a shutdown 3C. The whole situation is mind numbing, but it's where the team is at so it's pointless to wish otherwise.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Empoleon8771 I'm coming around on just Hall if Bruins fans think he's moved for little to nothing.

Adding him for a 3rd or something is probably the best player we can acquire this off season up front.

 

[Empoleon8771]

@Empoleon8771 I'm coming around on just Hall if Bruins fans think he's moved for little to nothing.

Adding him for a 3rd or something is probably the best player we can acquire this off season up front.

I think the dream scenario is getting both Ullmark and Hall for very little assets. It sounds like Boston fans really want to keep Swayman, and that's good for the Penguins because it means they won't have to trade #14 for Swayman.

If you could do like POJ and a 3rd for Ullmark and Hall, I'd be building a statue for Dubas. And as lopsided as that trade seems, I actually think it's totally possible too.

Even though I'm skeptical they would trade with each other, I think Boston and Pittsburgh make a lot of sense as trade partners. It sounds like Boston wants to trade Hall to get cap space to re-sign Bertuzzi, who was fantastic for Boston and likely costs less per year than Hall. Adding Hall and Ullmark in an off-season is about as big of a splash as I think is possible for Dubas, and the cap hit of both of those guys (Ullmark at $5 million, Hall at $6 million) are definitely workable.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

And get Grzelcyk.

Just get all the Broons.

 

[Pens x]

Meh I think this place is too hard on Jarry. He had a bad year last year but he has gotten Vezina votes in 2 different seasons. I don't think he is as risky as acquiring someone like Gibson or Hill.

Did you forget the Isles playoff debacle?

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is my last post for today because I'm posting way too much today, but here's the best I can do with talking trading with Boston:

-POJ and a 2024 2nd to Boston for Hall and Ullmark
-Granlund and #14 to Chicago for #19
-Re-sign Smith ($900k), Poehling ($1.5 million), O'Connor ($900k) and Bonino ($1 million)
-Sign Soucy (3 years at $3 million), Brown (4 years at $3.5 million), Kampf (3 years at $2.5 million) and Janmark (1 year at $1.5 million) in free agency

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Hall-Malkin-Rust
Janmark-Kampf-Brown
O'Connor-Poehling-Carter
Bonino-Nylander

Pettersson-Letang
Soucy-Petry
Smith-Rutta
Ruhwedel

Ullmark-DeSmith

This team has $333k in cap space, but I also went a little bit higher on the UFAs just to be conservative. I think LD is my biggest concern with this lineup, but I think it's something you can address later in the season after you see how Smith does in the NHL.

I think the bottom-6 is still kinda weak here, but the difference is that it's built to succeed with how Sullivan uses his bottom-6. Or at least the 3rd line is built to succeed in the usage Sullivan will give it. Kampf and Brown are both really strong defensive players and Janmark is a solid jack of all trades type of journeyman. I think I'd like to upgrade on Janmark if the opportunity arose, but you're going to have holes on a team in the cap era.

 

[66-30-33]

Jake-Crosby-Rakell
Hall-Malkin-Rust

That's the best top 6 we will ever see for this core.

 

[Pancakes]

Hall and Ullmark or Hall and Swayman would be nice but I'm not sure I see the Bruins trading such players to us. Or it might cost us more than a Western team would pay if we want to get them.