Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Sidney the Kidney]

Also how many old school GMs want a 5'10" 185lb player with a reputation for lacking physicality and speed anyway? It's not like we're talking Jack Johnson who at least had attributes we all know GMs value highly. We're talking the sort of guy that I can't see Lamoriello ever even bringing on board.

Which just further made the addition weird. It went beyond the "lets add size like Gudbranson or Reaves with little thought to how good he actually is because we need physicality" type add. It was literally bringing in the worst type of player for what the team needed to add.

 

[Darren McCord]

Counterpoint - how many of the next 2-4 years do we expect Granlund's buy out penalty/retention to matter at all? Next year, next year they have a chance at pride. The year after? Who knows. The year after that? Maaaybe but we're pushing it. Year 4, unless Sid finds the elixir of youth, that is straight up rebuild territory and it doesn't matter.

At which point, why not take the lightest hit for next year which is the most certain one?

This 100% Especial if they cap goes up 4 mil next summer.

They have realistically 2 years left to compete. Honestly with Jakes contract next summer maybe 1.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Counterpoint - how many of the next 2-4 years do we expect Granlund's buy out penalty/retention to matter at all? Next year, next year they have a chance at pride. The year after? Who knows. The year after that? Maaaybe but we're pushing it. Year 4, unless Sid finds the elixir of youth, that is straight up rebuild territory and it doesn't matter.

At which point, why not take the lightest hit for next year which is the most certain one?

Fair enough. I'm fine with that too... for the record. Farrrrrrrrrrr better with that than trying to play him in this team's top nine and certainly top six, actually. A concept which I still can't fathom people being OK with... under the assumption that these same people actually want the Penguins to succeed.

I just have a reflexive disgust for dead cap money spread over years. But in this case a valid argument can be made that it doesn't much matter.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

There is a window where another team may take on the Granlund trade for its own sake. That is March 2024 at the TDL. The risk is we then have to put Granlund in our top 9 between now and then.

The other path to swindling this offseason is making him part of a trade for a big/highly paid player for (our) assets, where he can be obscured as "just the money that has to go back"

Not sure we can afford to wait until the deadline, yeah. This is a bubble-out team right now. Every player and 5M chunk of AAV is needed to get this team back in.

I think he can be off-loaded for less than many people here think, soon.
100% agree that doing it in trade is where you'll take the least damage.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Fair enough. I'm fine with that too... for the record. Farrrrrrrrrrr better with that than trying to play him in this team's top nine and certainly top six, actually. A concept which I still can't fathom people being OK with... under the assumption that these same people actually want the Penguins to succeed.

I just have a reflexive disgust for dead cap money spread over years. But in this case a valid argument can be made that it doesn't much matter.

DOC - Malkin - Granlund

Don't tell me you're not salivating at the prospect of that combination.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Granted Athanasiou has become a substantially better player analytically than he used to be, I remember he used to be "he sucks outside of speed and scoring goals" back in like 2020. But still though, $4.25 million AAV for 40 points?

When he was traded from the Wings to the Oilers, the Oilers paid 2 2nds for him as he had 24 points in 46 games while being a -45 with horrendous analytics. I forgot about that deal, it became even worse when COVID hit.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

DOC - Malkin - Granlund

Don't tell me you're not salivating at the prospect of that combination.

Can't tell if that's better or worse than Granlund/Malkin/Rust

Also there needs to be a "barf" react

 

[Peat]

That's a whacky deal unless I'm missing something alright.

Also another two year deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

That AA deal is absurd.

It also makes me think Zucker and Barbashev are getting paid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Can't tell if that's better or worse than Granlund/Malkin/Rust

Also there needs to be a "barf" react

 

[Power Surge]

Carter Hart is available it seems

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Granted Athanasiou has become a substantially better player analytically than he used to be, I remember he used to be "he sucks outside of speed and scoring goals" back in like 2020. But still though, $4.25 million AAV for 40 points?

When he was traded from the Wings to the Oilers, the Oilers paid 2 2nds for him as he had 24 points in 46 games while being a -45 with horrendous analytics. I forgot about that deal, it became even worse when COVID hit.

Only a -29 last year. Will be interesting to see if they use him as a shutdown guy next year.

 

[Peat]

The AA deal makes me wonder if the era of robbing teams to take on cap is over. It would happen just when the Pens can finally rob rather than be robbed...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Granted Athanasiou has become a substantially better player analytically than he used to be, I remember he used to be "he sucks outside of speed and scoring goals" back in like 2020. But still though, $4.25 million AAV for 40 points?

When he was traded from the Wings to the Oilers, the Oilers paid 2 2nds for him as he had 24 points in 46 games while being a -45 with horrendous analytics. I forgot about that deal, it became even worse when COVID hit.

He seems like that player who can put up decent (but not great) point totals on a bad team because he'll get ice time there that he wouldn't on a contender, but otherwise isn't that good of a player.

Like, if I was the GM of an expansion team I might pick him up to play in the top six and he'll give me 20+ goals there. But if I'm the GM of a contender I stay away because he's not playing in my top six and I don't want him as a bottom six checker.

 

[Darren McCord]

That AA deal is absurd.

It also makes me think Zucker and Barbashev are getting paid.

Maybe, there is only so much money to go around with the cap barely going up. Some players are going to be underpaid by summer's end like last summer.

Also Chicago is going to have to overpay to get people there.

Also its only 2 years. They paid more for less term

 

[Empoleon8771]

He seems like that player who can put up decent (but not great) point totals on a bad team because he'll get ice time there that he wouldn't on a contender, but otherwise isn't that good of a player.

Like, if I was the GM of an expansion team I might pick him up to play in the top six and he'll give me 20+ goals there. But if I'm the GM of a contender I stay away because he's not playing in my top six and I don't want him as a bottom six checker.

Yeah that is basically what Athanasiou is.

The AA deal makes me wonder if the era of robbing teams to take on cap is over. It would happen just when the Pens can finally rob rather than be robbed...

The price LA just paid to get out of Petersen's deal suggests we're not there yet

But yeah it's interesting. I don't know why they'd rather pay Athanasiou that kind of money over getting like a 2nd to take on Granlund's deal. I guess they have a lot of money and a lot of open spaces though, so maybe 1 doesn't prevent the other.

 

[Darren McCord]

But yeah it's interesting. I don't know why they'd rather pay Athanasiou that kind of money over getting like a 2nd to take on Granlund's deal. I guess they have a lot of money and a lot of open spaces though, so maybe 1 doesn't prevent the other.

But the pens have to agree to that too, and I don't think they are there yet. Chicago is going to overpay guys to keep them on 1-3 year deals. Its smart because it will allow them to develop bedard and other players and have more cap in their primes for them and supporting cast.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah that is basically what Athanasiou is.



The price LA just paid to get out of Petersen's deal suggests we're not there yet

But yeah it's interesting. I don't know why they'd rather pay Athanasiou that kind of money over getting like a 2nd to take on Granlund's deal. I guess they have a lot of money and a lot of open spaces though, so maybe 1 doesn't prevent the other.

LA paid a 2nd and a prospect to get out of a bunch of cap.

Not that absurd.

Honesty that LA deal makes me think we could get value for Granlund and the AA deal even further proves that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

But the pens have to agree to that too, and I don't think they are there yet. Chicago is going to overpay guys to keep them on 1-3 year deals. Its smart because it will allow them to develop bedard and other players and have more cap in their primes for them and supporting cast.

It's not just Granlund though, a lot of teams have bad contracts to dump. The Islanders are going to have to dump Bailey's contract, for example.

LA paid a 2nd and a prospect to get out of a bunch of cap.

Not that absurd.

They also effectively retained $2 million on Petersen's deal.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's not just Granlund though, a lot of teams have bad contracts to dump. The Islanders are going to have to dump Bailey's contract, for example.



They also effectively retained $2 million on Petersen's deal.

So they moved 6 mil in cap for a 2nd and a nothing prospect.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So they moved 6 mil in cap for a 2nd and a nothing prospect.

Grans isn't a "nothing prospect"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh c'mon Chicago... if you guys wanted to hit the cap floor and/or just fill out your roster with whatever we had way better solutions than THAT.

 

[Darren McCord]

It's not just Granlund though, a lot of teams have bad contracts to dump. The Islanders are going to have to dump Bailey's contract, for example.



They also effectively retained $2 million on Petersen's deal.

I mean chicago still has what like 35 million in cap space. They can still take on plenty. They overpaid a vet who has been around. Happens all the time. My bet is Kane goes back at a cheap price and they still do what you suggest when teams start getting nervous about needing cap space closer to July 1rst

 

[Ugene Magic]

And he was great with Barkov and Huberdeau!

Granlund sucked with Duchene and Forsberg.

It's one thing to assign mild value to a guy who was great with Barkov and Huberdeau a couple of years ago (as was the case when Dadonov was traded). It's another to assign it to someone who sucked with Duchene and Forsberg a couple of years ago.

You do realize that was 5 and 6 years ago. Granlund did near as good playing with Zucker and Koivu. Had a 64 point season since with Nashville.

Down year last year Forsberg (only 50 GP) was out Duchene missed time. Barkov/Huberdeau a notch over Duchene/Forsberg who were more PPG guys than those two.

So you say he sucked, but 11 goals and 53 assists sucks?

What's Dadonov doing these days? Granlund put up 64 and was pacing for 50 with Forsberg missing significant time.

 

[Darren McCord]

Oh c'mon Chicago... if you guys wanted to hit the cap floor and/or just fill out your roster with whatever we had way better solutions than THAT.

Chicago is doing things are their terms its smart. They will keep like 20 mill in cap when teams fill the strangle around July 1rst and prices are even more inflated. Wait until Boston or Vancouver has to panic trade