Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I can’t see Sully surviving the summer of another missed playoffs, but then again who knows.

You would think that a city who got so mad at a GM to chant for his removal during a game would be fed up with Sully by now, but this is also a group of people who think putting French fries on anything edible is culture so.

Yeah, it's the mayo-based coleslaw with everything that kills Pittsburgh food for me.

It's just a situation where I won't believe he's on the hot seat, let alone be fired, until it actually happens. Dude failed to make the 2nd round four times in a row, then got a new f***ing contract before his current one was even up, *then* his team missed the playoffs entirely and he's still here. For a team that doesn't have a whole lotta time left in the era, if any at all (with respect to actually competing), that's bizarre.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The thing is we shouldn't hope for that 3-4 game win streak. All it does is inflate Sullivan's hype a little longer and then the team is out in the first round like usual.

A stale voice is still stale. Even if it sparks a few streaks, at this point it's been the same pattern for years. It's predictable.

Yeah definitely. I just mean that if they make changes now, it's not too late to make the playoffs. After Christmas this team would have to go on an insane run to stand a chance. Clocks ticking Dubas. Team ain't doing shit with Sullivan here.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think this team's just gonna toil in the worst possible spot they can be in for the rest of the season; just barely hanging around as a potential WC team. It's that shitty no man's land where the team sucks but not quite badly enough to get a blue chip prospect and get everyone fired.

And I think that's what this team's gonna be from now until Sid retires tbh. Super stoked.

 

[Andy99]

I heard speculation that they would oust Reirden during the long break between the Panthers and Coyotes game but the logic makes 0 sense to me.

The long break is not going to disappear if they fire Reirden now. They need a new leader ASAP. It literally cannot get worse than it already is.

We all love Letang's game overall, but the fact that these idiots thought putting him on the point was going to help displays their level of delusion.

Firing Reirden does nothing…Sullivan must go

 

[Pancakes]

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's entirely possible that Dubas likes Sullivan and believes in what he's doing.

The team has good underlying 5v5 numbers, strong goaltending, and a good pk. It'd be incredibly easy to look at that as a GM and assume that the powerplay will eventually right itself and that this will then be a good team.

I think that's a mistaken line of thinking mind you. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Dubas is thinking about the team.

I think if Sullivan ends up getting fired it will be because this plays out how we all expect (ie, PP doesn't get much better, team ends up missing the playoffs because of it) but that won't happen until the off season if at all.

 

[Andy99]

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's entirely possible that Dubas likes Sullivan and believes in what he's doing.

The team has good underlying 5v5 numbers, strong goaltending, and a good pk. It'd be incredibly easy to look at that as a GM and assume that the powerplay will eventually right itself and that this will then be a good team.

I think that's a mistaken line of thinking mind you. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Dubas is thinking about the team.

I think if Sullivan ends up getting fired it will be because this plays out how we all expect (ie, PP doesn't get much better, team ends up missing the playoffs because of it) but that won't happen until the off season if at all.

You’re probably right but what was this season about then, including the acquisition of EK?….if you’re not going to try to win with a new coach, next year is likely too late especially if we don’t pick top 5 in the draft

 

[SomeDude]

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's entirely possible that Dubas likes Sullivan and believes in what he's doing.

The team has good underlying 5v5 numbers, strong goaltending, and a good pk. It'd be incredibly easy to look at that as a GM and assume that the powerplay will eventually right itself and that this will then be a good team.

I think that's a mistaken line of thinking mind you. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Dubas is thinking about the team.

I think if Sullivan ends up getting fired it will be because this plays out how we all expect (ie, PP doesn't get much better, team ends up missing the playoffs because of it) but that won't happen until the off season if at all.

I, for one, think it’s entirely plausible (if not probable) that Kyle Dubas is a moron who thinks statistics are more important than what you can actually watch with your eyes and we will continuously be mediocre for the decade(s) that he is in charge.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's entirely possible that Dubas likes Sullivan and believes in what he's doing.

The team has good underlying 5v5 numbers, strong goaltending, and a good pk. It'd be incredibly easy to look at that as a GM and assume that the powerplay will eventually right itself and that this will then be a good team.

I think that's a mistaken line of thinking mind you. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Dubas is thinking about the team.

I think if Sullivan ends up getting fired it will be because this plays out how we all expect (ie, PP doesn't get much better, team ends up missing the playoffs because of it) but that won't happen until the off season if at all.

FSG would not have hired Dubas if he was not as over the moon about Sully as they are.

Reality is PP is underperforming where they need to be by 8-10%. A goal every 2nd game. That is huge. Whatever it takes to rectify that, nothing should be off the table. I think replacing Reirden is a no-brainer.

 

[Pancakes]

I, for one, think it’s entirely plausible (if not probable) that Kyle Dubas is a moron who thinks statistics are more important than what you can actually watch with your eyes and we will continuously be mediocre for the decade(s) that he is in charge.

Honestly, whether Dubas proves to be a good GM or not, I think we're very likely to be mediocre if not bad for the next decade anyways. We're headed for a serious bottoming out, and unless we get lucky and get some generational talents again there's no quick way out of that.

Look at the Wings post Zetterberg/Datsyuk. 8 years and counting of missing the playoffs. Still no truly superstar talents there either.

Or the Devils. Made the finals in 11-12 and then missed 5 years in a row before Taylor Hall randomly had an mvp caliber season which got them one playoff appearance followed by 4 more years of missing. And only after all of that (and a bit of lottery luck to get Hughes) have they righted the ship and appear good again.

Or the Sabres. 13 straight years of missing the playoffs, and they've even picked first overall twice during that time.

It's gonna be real bad unless luck strikes again for this team. We are probably on the verge of seeing about a decade of really bad Penguins hockey before we end up being good again.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Dubas is on the same page as Sullivan, without a doubt. I think pretty much everyone outside of this forum thinks extremely highly of Sullivan, around the NHL and in the Pens' locker room.

You’re probably right but what was this season about then, including the acquisition of EK?….if you’re not going to try to win with a new coach, next year is likely too late especially if we don’t pick top 5 in the draft

Seasons don't have to be about anything. Anybody still buying the "we're trying super duper hard to win another Cup" thing from the organization is gullible as f***. It's been a long time since this team was trying everything to win. It's all about scooping up as much cash as possible before this team goes like 15 years without making the playoffs and the building's empty. EK was a nice bit of fortune in that he wanted out of SJ so he forced their hand and nobody wanted him. He puts more butts in the seats and sells more jerseys before the big drop off.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I, for one, think it’s entirely plausible (if not probable) that Kyle Dubas is a moron who thinks statistics are more important than what you can actually watch with your eyes and we will continuously be mediocre for the decade(s) that he is in charge.

It is definitely possible that Dubas is a bozo. We don't really know one way or the other, but people overrate the competence of good-looking people with glasses.

Sports and corporate history is littered with stories of rising stars who turned out to be mediocre. Or just managers who have some good luck and bad luck/circumstances and that matters far more than their own skill.

 

[Andy99]

Dubas is on the same page as Sullivan, without a doubt. I think pretty much everyone outside of this forum thinks extremely highly of Sullivan, around the NHL and in the Pens' locker room.

Seasons don't have to be about anything. Anybody still buying the "we're trying super duper hard to win another Cup" thing from the organization is gullible as f***. It's been a long time since this team was trying everything to win. It's all about scooping up as much cash as possible before this team goes like 15 years without making the playoffs and the building's empty. EK was a nice bit of fortune in that he wanted out of SJ so he forced their hand and nobody wanted him. He puts more butts in the seats and sells more jerseys before the big drop off.

Well they’re not putting butts in the seats rn…PPG has looked empty a lot of nights…

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

That mainboard thread about Lafferty is pretty interesting.

Turns out he's on pace for 20+ goals, 40+ points and a plus player. All while being compared to a Zach Hyman lite. Would be really nice to have a player like that right now huh. Wonder why he didn't work out here.....

 

[Andy99]

That mainboard thread about Lafferty is pretty interesting.

Turns out he's on pace for 20+ goals, 40+ points and a plus player. All while being compared to a Zach Hyman lite. Would be really nice to have a player like that right now huh. Wonder why he didn't work out here

Because Sullivan kept benching him for dumb O zone penalties and played him 6 min a night….

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Because Sullivan kept benching him for dumb O zone penalties and played him 6 min a night….

So much for letting him play through his struggles


Granted, he did take some dumbass penalties

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well they’re not putting butts in the seats rn…PPG has looked empty a lot of nights…

Fair. But it doesn't matter to them if people go to the games. It matters the tickets are sold.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I heard speculation that they would oust Reirden during the long break between the Panthers and Coyotes game but the logic makes 0 sense to me.

The long break is not going to disappear if they fire Reirden now. They need a new leader ASAP. It literally cannot get worse than it already is.

We all love Letang's game overall, but the fact that these idiots thought putting him on the point was going to help displays their level of delusion.

From a pure pragmatic standpoint, firing someone during a longer break makes sense because it gives the newcomer(s) time to work a bit with the team in practice before the first game.

When they fired Johnston, it was the day before a game. I think it took Sullivan over a week before he won his first game as coach. Edmonton just had a similarly rough transition from Woodcroft.

Monty has used youth in better ways than Sully ever has. Even this year. A Sully team would have had Heinen signed. Monty was like yeah f*** all that, play the youth.

Boston has substantially more talented youth than the Pens do. And Heinen is on Boston's second line. He was with Poitras and Debrusk, now he's with Marchand and Coyle. So he's playing above some of the youth.

 

[pistolpete11]

I've seen people post the Pens' record now vs. the year Johnston was fired.

Anyone have the points they were out of the playoffs that year? As bad as things appear, they are 2 points out of the Wild Card and only 3 points (with a game in hand) out of 3rd in the division.

This is not to say that they should "trust the process". On the contrary. I'm saying it's not too late to turn things around.

 

[vodeni]

From a pure pragmatic standpoint, firing someone during a longer break makes sense because it gives the newcomer(s) time to work a bit with the team in practice before the first game.

When they fired Johnston, it was the day before a game. I think it took Sullivan over a week before he won his first game as coach. Edmonton just had a similarly rough transition from Woodcroft.


Boston has substantially more talented youth than the Pens do. And Heinen is on Boston's second line. He was with Poitras and Debrusk, now he's with Marchand and Coyle. So he's playing above some of the youth.

I think he lost first four games before going ona winning streak

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've seen people post the Pens' record now vs. the year Johnston was fired.

Anyone have the points they were out of the playoffs that year? As bad as things appear, they are 2 points out of the Wild Card and only 3 points (with a game in hand) out of 3rd in the division.

This is not to say that they should "trust the process". On the contrary. I'm saying it's not too late to turn things around.

It's definitely not too late to turn the season around. Like you said, even hovering near the bottom of the East, they're still 2pts out of a WC spot with games in hand on some teams above them. But in 2023, with this roster, turning the season around means eeking into the playoffs and being a 1st round ritual sacrifice. This isn't a team full of elite talent in their prime, with significant depth pieces like Kessel and Hornqvist. /shrug

Everybody should be rooting for this team to lose, and lose badly, until the entire coaching staff is nuked. Not just Reirden, who I think is definitely gonna be the first to go. They all need to be replaced, imo.

 

[Andy99]

This was Kan Dingerski’s take on L2 struggles from his Q&A article today ….honestly agree with this one, and no, it’s not that Malkin is washed lol…

“Teams are taking the rush away from Malkin, and the big guy is forcing the issue. What looked great early in the season is no longer available. Malkin and Reilly Smith were electric; they created an inordinate amount of chances on the rush. Now, teams are getting in their way (opponents want to win, too). Malkin needs to simplify, and Drew O’Connor needs to come through by getting more loose pucks/dumped pucks.”

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Smith should be up with Sid and Jake, Rust should be with Geno and whoever else until Rakell's healthy. Seems relatively simple, and if it results in two lackluster lines instead of what they've got now which is one productive line (that sucks defensively) and one awful line (in all aspects), you can just go back to Sully's safety blanket that is GCRust.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That mainboard thread about Lafferty is pretty interesting.

Turns out he's on pace for 20+ goals, 40+ points and a plus player. All while being compared to a Zach Hyman lite. Would be really nice to have a player like that right now huh. Wonder why he didn't work out here.....

I don't recall our board being too torn up about Lafferty leaving at the time.

If I remember right, most were pretty happy to see him go actually.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Lafferty sucked here and him finally having success like 3 years later doesn't change that fact.

 

[McGroarty2]

I've seen people post the Pens' record now vs. the year Johnston was fired.

Anyone have the points they were out of the playoffs that year? As bad as things appear, they are 2 points out of the Wild Card and only 3 points (with a game in hand) out of 3rd in the division.

This is not to say that they should "trust the process". On the contrary. I'm saying it's not too late to turn things around.

Pens were 15-10-3 (33pts in 28 games), losing 3-2 to LA in a shootout. Sullivan took over and lost 4 straight. Then went 33-12-5 (71pts) over remaining 50 games.