Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Pens x]

The next guy people are going to hyper fixate on after they leave here is 100% going to be Puustinen. If he has any shred of success elsewhere, people will be screaming about it and how Sullivan mistreated him. If he continues to be a nothing piece, no one will mention him or give credit to Sullivan for being right about him.

Sully, is that you?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I've seen people post the Pens' record now vs. the year Johnston was fired.

Anyone have the points they were out of the playoffs that year? As bad as things appear, they are 2 points out of the Wild Card and only 3 points (with a game in hand) out of 3rd in the division.

This is not to say that they should "trust the process". On the contrary. I'm saying it's not too late to turn things around.

This team is just not consistent, they have a great game and we think they're turning the corner and they follow it up with 2-3 terrible games. It's been like that for a few seasons now. I just unfortunately don't have faith.

At some point, someone needs to wake up and put their big pants on and make changes that are necessary. You want to keep Sid and Geno fine, but stop trading picks and prospects and think this team has a shot!!! Time to be realistic

 

[Nakawick]

This core may or may not win another playoff round. It won’t with Sullivan. His message is stale. He has been around too long.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

UMMMMMMMMMMM Good Argument

Sorry that doesn't jive with reality, but dems the facts.
But Sully Swallowers are gonna Sully....

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

This core may or may not win another playoff round. It won’t with Sullivan. His message is stale. He has been around too long.

This core also may or may never make the playoffs ever again.....

I agree, he needs to be canned

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I know nobody wants to hear this but it's entirely possible that Dubas likes Sullivan and believes in what he's doing.

The team has good underlying 5v5 numbers, strong goaltending, and a good pk. It'd be incredibly easy to look at that as a GM and assume that the powerplay will eventually right itself and that this will then be a good team.

I think that's a mistaken line of thinking mind you. But I wouldn't be surprised if that's how Dubas is thinking about the team.

I think if Sullivan ends up getting fired it will be because this plays out how we all expect (ie, PP doesn't get much better, team ends up missing the playoffs because of it) but that won't happen until the off season if at all.

You're right in most parts. But Dubas can't be thinking that this team looks good after last night.
They looked like they were skating in quicksand and EK has been absolutely neutered. Dude is arguably the best offensive dman of his generation and last year won the Norris

Alarm bells should be going off in Dubas' head that this process isn't gonna end well

 

[Nakawick]

Sullivan is not a bad coach and would certainly get another NHL coaching job if he wanted one. But it is time for the Pens to freshen up.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Sullivan is not a bad coach and would certainly get another NHL coaching job if he wanted one. But it is time for the Pens to freshen up.

For as much as everyone on this board has wanted Sullivan gone, I do think he’s going to have success wherever he goes next. He is a good coach.

It’s just that there’s a reason why coaches don’t last this long with one, singular franchise in the NHL. They develop bad habits and their message starts to get tuned out. He probably should’ve been canned after the Montreal bubble series.

 

[pistolpete11]

This team is just not consistent, they have a great game and we think they're turning the corner and they follow it up with 2-3 terrible games. It's been like that for a few seasons now. I just unfortunately don't have faith.

At some point, someone needs to wake up and put their big pants on and make changes that are necessary. You want to keep Sid and Geno fine, but stop trading picks and prospects and think this team has a shot!!! Time to be realistic

They are a capable team, though. Their 5-on-5 stats are proof of it, but they are 1000% being let down by the PP.

The concerning thing is that regardless of why they are where they are in the standings, they turned in that dogshit of a performance last night. If they were comfortably in the playoffs at this point and took a night off, OK. Not ideal, but you can live with it. But they were checked out from puck drop last night.

I've said it many times, this is Mike Johnston era all over again. They show flashes of how good they can be, but then are listless the rest of the time. If they were battling 60min every night and losing, I'd be more likely to just give up on them. They aren't, though. They are mailing it in way too often.

 

[Victor Z]

For as much as everyone on this board has wanted Sullivan gone, I do think he’s going to have success wherever he goes next.

If and only if he lucks into a team that plays the one and only way he knows how to coach -- lots of players in their prime years with good speed, and don't ever hit anyone. Just play.

Sully's not going to wipe his galaxy brain of all the crap he's tried (or refused to try) and failed over the past 5 years here, and suddenly go back to being the same guy he was in 2016.

 

[orby]

If and only if he lucks into a team that plays the one and only way he knows how to coach -- lots of players in their prime years with good speed, and don't ever hit anyone. Just play.

Sully's not going to wipe his galaxy brain of all the crap he's tried (or refused to try) and failed over the past 5 years here, and suddenly go back to being the same guy he was in 2016.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The success of Sullivan's system in 2016-17 depended heavily on the team's best players still being in their prime in terms of speed and scoring ability, and peppering in just enough physicality/"grit" to prevent other teams from manhandling them. They were a juggernaut that could just score at will and lock down games. Now most of the team's best players are in their mid 30s and, aside from Karlsson, there really haven't been any additions made to the roster in the years since that have moved the needle. They've lost far more than they've gained.

While the fancy stats may indicate that there is a competent system at work somewhere in the madness, it's plain to see that the team is constantly playing on its heels, even with the man advantage. Something is rotten and Sullivan has no answers for it.

 

[SEALBound]

There's a decent amount of blame to go around. Obviously Sullivan (and maybe more so Reirden) takes the brunt of it but it's not pretend the players aren't playing their role in this dumpster fire. At the end of the day, Sullivan can't be the one shooting and skating and making good passes, so there is quite a bit on the players as well.

One interesting thought that hasn't really been thoroughly discussed (yet, lol) is Dubas. While he did a great job turning this roster over and providing them a lot of decent players that better complement the system but at this point, it can be clearly seen that something isn't right and we may be in need of a new player or two. There are plenty of players out there struggling at the moment - Anderson, Domi, Rakell, Burakovsky, Athansiou, Silfverberg, Pageau...I mean, if you go down the list there's a number of notable names in a similar position as Rakell. To the point where I am shocked there hasn't been a swap between two teams at one point.

We have POJ as well who may be a good trade chip to get a new face in the forward group. I don't think we are getting rid of Graves and besides him, I've very much okay with the defense. I think we need to try to get a different skill set in the forward group to hopefully make something click. A new Hornqvist is obviously the answer but that can be said for about 31 other teams as well.

In previous soap box speeches about the trials and tribulations of the Sullivan era, one of my primary criticisms was - I get that he will eventually make a change but I wish he wouldn't crash the f***ing plane into the dirt and kill all of the passengers before he decides to pull up. He rides bad decisions into the ground. I hope Dubas doesn't let this current roster skid into the ground into a state of irrelevance before they say "Oh, let's do this now! We need to do something!". That need manifested itself about 3 weeks ago. So while I get he won't be canned, the clock is ticking for Dubas as well if he wants to avoid shouldering a larger portion of the blame than what he needs to.

 

[Josey Wales]

There's a decent amount of blame to go around. Obviously Sullivan (and maybe more so Reirden) takes the brunt of it but it's not pretend the players aren't playing their role in this dumpster fire. At the end of the day, Sullivan can't be the one shooting and skating and making good passes, so there is quite a bit on the players as well.

One interesting thought that hasn't really been thoroughly discussed (yet, lol) is Dubas. While he did a great job turning this roster over and providing them a lot of decent players that better complement the system but at this point, it can be clearly seen that something isn't right and we may be in need of a new player or two. There are plenty of players out there struggling at the moment - Anderson, Domi, Rakell, Burakovsky, Athansiou, Silfverberg, Pageau...I mean, if you go down the list there's a number of notable names in a similar position as Rakell. To the point where I am shocked there hasn't been a swap between two teams at one point.

We have POJ as well who may be a good trade chip to get a new face in the forward group. I don't think we are getting rid of Graves and besides him, I've very much okay with the defense. I think we need to try to get a different skill set in the forward group to hopefully make something click. A new Hornqvist is obviously the answer but that can be said for about 31 other teams as well.

In previous soap box speeches about the trials and tribulations of the Sullivan era, one of my primary criticisms was - I get that he will eventually make a change but I wish he wouldn't crash the f***ing plane into the dirt and kill all of the passengers before he decides to pull up. He rides bad decisions into the ground. I hope Dubas doesn't let this current roster skid into the ground into a state of irrelevance before they say "Oh, let's do this now! We need to do something!". That need manifested itself about 3 weeks ago. So while I get he won't be canned, the clock is ticking for Dubas as well if he wants to avoid shouldering a larger portion of the blame than what he needs to.

Careful you will be called a Sullivan Swallower

 

[Josey Wales]

Josh Yohe

@JoshYohe_PGH
·
13h

The Penguins give-a-shit level looks pretty low tonight, and that's something I rarely say about this team. Especially the guys who started the season in WBS...I mean, if you want to actually stay in the NHL or make an impact, perhaps finish a check, or something of that nature.

 

[orby]

One interesting thought that hasn't really been thoroughly discussed (yet, lol) is Dubas. While he did a great job turning this roster over and providing them a lot of decent players that better complement the system but at this point, it can be clearly seen that something isn't right and we may be in need of a new player or two. There are plenty of players out there struggling at the moment - Anderson, Domi, Rakell, Burakovsky, Athansiou, Silfverberg, Pageau...I mean, if you go down the list there's a number of notable names in a similar position as Rakell. To the point where I am shocked there hasn't been a swap between two teams at one point.

We have POJ as well who may be a good trade chip to get a new face in the forward group. I don't think we are getting rid of Graves and besides him, I've very much okay with the defense. I think we need to try to get a different skill set in the forward group to hopefully make something click. A new Hornqvist is obviously the answer but that can be said for about 31 other teams as well.

In previous soap box speeches about the trials and tribulations of the Sullivan era, one of my primary criticisms was - I get that he will eventually make a change but I wish he wouldn't crash the f***ing plane into the dirt and kill all of the passengers before he decides to pull up. He rides bad decisions into the ground. I hope Dubas doesn't let this current roster skid into the ground into a state of irrelevance before they say "Oh, let's do this now! We need to do something!". That need manifested itself about 3 weeks ago. So while I get he won't be canned, the clock is ticking for Dubas as well if he wants to avoid shouldering a larger portion of the blame than what he needs to.

Agreed. There is no reason to stand pat at this point. If Dubas wants to prolong the inevitable rebuild, he needs to approach this as an all-hands-on-deck emergency. They either need to make some kind of trade to shake up a stale roster or can the coaching staff and try a different approach. He'd be crazy to sit on his hands and watch this team hover around .500 a third of the way through the season.

 

[pistolpete11]

Agreed. There is no reason to stand pat at this point. If Dubas wants to prolong the inevitable rebuild, he needs to approach this as an all-hands-on-deck emergency. They either need to make some kind of trade to shake up a stale roster or can the coaching staff and try a different approach. He'd be crazy to sit on his hands and watch this team hover around .500 a third of the way through the season.

How many more roster shakeups are needed?

 

[Pens x]

Agreed. There is no reason to stand pat at this point. If Dubas wants to prolong the inevitable rebuild, he needs to approach this as an all-hands-on-deck emergency. They either need to make some kind of trade to shake up a stale roster or can the coaching staff and try a different approach. He'd be crazy to sit on his hands and watch this team hover around .500 a third of the way through the season.

There has been plenty of roster turnover. Sully and Reirden have to go. The Pens should have left Sully in Canada after the Habs playpff series several years ago.

 

[orby]

How many more roster shakeups are needed?

I'd prefer they make a move with the coaching staff before they try to fix it with a trade tbh.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How many more roster shakeups are needed?

We haven't tried trading the core yet?!

I mean, the one constant that's been around for the past 5 years of failure has been the core of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Rust. So CLEARLY that's the move that should be made because I can't think of another constant that's been here during that time other than them who could be at fault.

 

[SomeDude]

This is all still somehow David Morehouse’s fault.

 

[Miro4Norris]

I posted about this on the main thread but figured to post it here as well since this stat is really crazy:

I just checked all Net PP percentages from every team from 1983 to 2023(there was no stats before) and Pens pp was worst by far (4.2%). Second worst during the last 40 years was Tampa's 4.8% in 1998. So yes, it is literally the worst PP of all time. Easily. Incredible with all these names.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

This is all still somehow David Morehouse’s fault.

Nobody likes Milhouse! Lisa, you've got detention.

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[Fordy]

The next guy people are going to hyper fixate on after they leave here is 100% going to be Puustinen. If he has any shred of success elsewhere, people will be screaming about it and how Sullivan mistreated him. If he continues to be a nothing piece, no one will mention him or give credit to Sullivan for being right about him.

this is just a copy and paste of stuff you said about zohorna. the bar to clear harkins or archibald is not a high one. no one expects anything more than that

 

[SomeDude]

this is just a copy and paste of stuff you said about zohorna. the bar to clear harkins or archibald is not a high one. no one expects anything more than that

The ironic thing is the first person that would freak out would be Emp, and then claim he always thought Puustinen would be useful.

 

[Andy99]

From Taylor…practice starting in Sunrise…


• Practice is underway, 15 minutes early. No sign of Bryan Rust after he left after the second period last night with an upper-body injury. All other healthy players are out there.

• No sign of Noel Acciari, who is on this trip too but sidelined with a lower-body injury.